The evidence strongly suggests it's the Republicans who are trying to rig the election!

[Patooka]

And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The way it worked during Jim Crow, you mean?

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that. When it comes to voting technology and lack of a paper trail has mostly been the issue IMO.

I love how you think racism was fixed after Jim Crow laws, A similar attitude was floated in Australia. You are soo close as to figuring out why your Citizens United Overlords want you to believe in the bullshit you believe,

Can you figure out why? Be a gentlemen in good faith. Entertain a hypothetical that "migrant election fraud" is a scam. Who benefits on this?

 

[Patooka]

. There is so much of this crap going on by the Republicans, most likely to try and make naive and low information people believe that our elections are not fair. it's rather sickening.

I can clearly remember 50+ years ago (before I was old enough to vote and televisions were mostly black and white) when the US voting system worked and both parties had faith in it. I can remember when everyone in my neighborhood came to vote at my school and believe or not the winner of a POTUS race (even when it was close) was officially determined even before my bedtime! That SAME day.

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

You don't believe in "both sides". You love that the right has had its thumb on the scale for fucking decades. Matt Labash said it best.

“We’ve created this cottage industry in which it pays to be un-objective. It pays to be subjective as much as possible. It’s a great way to have your cake and eat it too. Criticize other people for not being objective. Be as subjective as you want. It’s a great little racket. I’m glad we found it actually.”

Labash says conservative media realize it pays to be biased - Poynter

From person-to-person coaching and intensive hands-on seminars to interactive online courses and media reporting, Poynter helps journalists sharpen skills and elevate storytelling throughout their careers.

www.poynter.org

Just admit your orange messiah lost 2020 and move the fuck on. You remember MoveOn right RVonse? You know the group that was right about George W Bush all along,

But keep being a cheerleader for Iraq Invasion supporters like Tucker Carlson and Shaun Hannity. It won't affect your credibility - and I mean that. It won't affect your credibility at all that you side with pro war scum like Carlson and Hannity.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wondering how RVonse votes that doesn't have a paper trail.

 

[RVonse]

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that.

1965+50=2015

So, basically, voting "worked good" for every presidential election, until Trump turned up and destroyed everybody's confidence in the system?

You might be on to something there.

That actually is about the time frame that both parties started having total mistrust and disgust with each other. I don't think that Trump was directly the cause though although he leveraged it to his advantage.

 

[RVonse]

And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The way it worked during Jim Crow, you mean?

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that. When it comes to voting technology and lack of a paper trail has mostly been the issue IMO.

So you wish to recreate the circumstances of the 1988 election, perhaps?

You can argue the Republicans and Democrats have always enjoyed debate with each other but at least there was some sense of basic trust with each other back in those days.

 

[RVonse]

. There is so much of this crap going on by the Republicans, most likely to try and make naive and low information people believe that our elections are not fair. it's rather sickening.

You don't believe in "both sides". You love that the right has had its thumb on the scale for fucking decades. Matt Labash said it best.

No I believe in both sides. Otherwise you are automatically hating half the country and that can not work. Both sides can have different opinions but they do have to show respect for each other again. They have to at least come to agreement with some basic rules of what a fair election looks like.

 

[laughing dog]

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that.

1965+50=2015

So, basically, voting "worked good" for every presidential election, until Trump turned up and destroyed everybody's confidence in the system?

You might be on to something there.

That actually is about the time frame that both parties started having total mistrust and disgust with each other. I don't think that Trump was directly the cause though although he leveraged it to his advantage.

The distrust over voting results really jumped with the Floridian hanging chads which was a dispute about how to actually count ballots had physical flaws.

Trump's "issues" with voting had nothing to do with physically flawed ballots. He alleges to this day that there is massive fraud even though there is no evidence whatsoever to sustain such allegations. He is responsible for the rising distrust of the voting process. He plays on the xenophobia and racism of many of his supporters to fuel the flames of this distrust. And they lap it up - your posts are evidence of that effect.

 

[RVonse]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

 

[RVonse]

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that.

1965+50=2015

So, basically, voting "worked good" for every presidential election, until Trump turned up and destroyed everybody's confidence in the system?

You might be on to something there.

That actually is about the time frame that both parties started having total mistrust and disgust with each other. I don't think that Trump was directly the cause though although he leveraged it to his advantage.

The distrust over voting results really jumped with the Floridian hanging chads which was a dispute about how to actually count ballots had physical flaws.

Trump's "issues" with voting had nothing to do with physically flawed ballots. He alleges to this day that there is massive fraud even though there is no evidence whatsoever to sustain such allegations. He is responsible for the rising distrust of the voting process. He plays on the xenophobia and racism of many of his supporters to fuel the flames of this distrust. And they lap it up - your posts are evidence of that effect.

As Trump said during the debate, you don't know that. He was never allowed to followup his allegations because the other side automatically squashed the effort using a technical legal procedure of standing.

A person that loses in court over a technical legal challenge of standing is NEVER going to be satisfied he was wrong, you have to prove you were right by looking at the evidence. You can not expect the other side to think any differently.

 

[laughing dog]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

In my state, the vote is paper with machines counting the vote. Election judges at the precincts do not see the votes tallies and they do not t urn in the results to the county until they can reconcile the number of votes counted by the machines with the number of ballots distributed to in person voters.

In every state, mail in ballots are paper ballots.

I seriously doubt there are any places that do not have a paper trail.

Outside of Trump's ravings, on what basis do you feel that voting security is laxer today than in the 60s or 70s? In the 1970s, sometimes I was asked to show my driver's license but those did not have photographs.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

 

[RVonse]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

In my state, the vote is paper with machines counting the vote. Election judges at the precincts do not see the votes tallies and they do not t urn in the results to the county until they can reconcile the number of votes counted by the machines with the number of ballots distributed to in person voters.

In every state, mail in ballots are paper ballots.

I seriously doubt there are any places that do not have a paper trail.

Outside of Trump's ravings, on what basis do you feel that voting security is laxer today than in the 60s or 70s? In the 1970s, sometimes I was asked to show my driver's license but those did not have photographs.

The other side is saying the electronic machines can be hacked. They are also saying the mail in ballots can be stuffed. I'm not saying either is true or not but I am saying it should be addressed so that trust for the other side can be established again.

Why would it be so bad to ban the electronic machines that really aren't necessary if they give the other side trust in the system? And why would it be so be so bad to make sure mail in ballots are the exception and not the rule? What is wrong with people showing up at the polls like they used to if there is nothing to hide?

 

[RVonse]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

Fair enough. Would you change your mind (or be open to change) if I could show you several recent republican audits of the ballots from last election?

 

[ZiprHead]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

Voting machines are not connected to the internet. If you filled out a paper ballot there is a paper trail.

 

[Politesse]

And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The way it worked during Jim Crow, you mean?

Jim Crow laws were overturned in 1965 and have nothing to do with the price of tea. Voting still worked good for another 50 years after that. When it comes to voting technology and lack of a paper trail has mostly been the issue IMO.

So you wish to recreate the circumstances of the 1988 election, perhaps?

You can argue the Republicans and Democrats have always enjoyed debate with each other but at least there was some sense of basic trust with each other back in those days.

It does not seem to me that political party is the most important factor in whether a given population has equitable access to the polls or not.

 

[laughing dog]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

In my state, the vote is paper with machines counting the vote. Election judges at the precincts do not see the votes tallies and they do not t urn in the results to the county until they can reconcile the number of votes counted by the machines with the number of ballots distributed to in person voters.

In every state, mail in ballots are paper ballots.

I seriously doubt there are any places that do not have a paper trail.

Outside of Trump's ravings, on what basis do you feel that voting security is laxer today than in the 60s or 70s? In the 1970s, sometimes I was asked to show my driver's license but those did not have photographs.

The other side is saying the electronic machines can be hacked. They are also saying the mail in ballots can be stuffed. I'm not saying either is true or not but I am saying it should be addressed so that trust for the other side can be established again.


Why would it be so bad to ban the electronic machines that really aren't necessary if they give the other side trust in the system? And why would it be so be so bad to make sure mail in ballots are the exception and not the rule? What is wrong with people showing up at the polls like they used to if there is nothing to hide?

Machines are used because people didn't trust hand counts. Using your logic, there is no way to count votes that every "side" (i.e. lunatic fringe") trusts.

 

[laughing dog]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

Yea, that is pretty bizzare. I mean it true that most states will limit how many audits or hand recounts are paid by the tax payer. There were many tax paid audits of the vote. But after a few, the parties making the claims of fraud have to pay for them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.