The evidence strongly suggests it's the Republicans who are trying to rig the election!

[Elixir]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too.

Yes, they project every crime they commit, every lie they tell and every prediction they plan to make come true. Vote Trump and;
* it will be the last election (according to Trump that will be the case if he loses)
* the US will become shithole (like what he has done to Springfield)
* the economy will tank ( like it did whe he was pres, and will agsin when he gives his donors another few trillion)

At this point only a true sucker can believe any of his scaremongering. I PROMISE you the economy will nosedive after another 3 years of Cheato.
What will YOU blame it on, RV?
Trump will blame whoever is left alive to oppose him.

 

[RVonse]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

 

[laughing dog]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

"Long ago" dead people voted. Allegedly, JFK won Illinois because of the dead vote in Chicago. Hell, Jimmy Carter made his name in Georgia by cleaning up voter rolls.

This lack of trust is driven by Trump's inability to lose gracefully. No one has been able to convince a court of voter fraud. There have been numerous audits with all of the same results - no fraud. None.

Mike Lindell lost his business and his mind over voter fraud.

One side, and only one side, is pushing distrust in the integrity of the vote. And it is YOUR SIDE. It is Mr. Trump and the cowards in the GOP pushing these conspiracy theories on desperate dupes. It is people like YOU with this "both sides" falsehoods about voting integrity.

 

[RVonse]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

 

[RVonse]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

"Long ago" dead people voted. Allegedly, JFK won Illinois because of the dead vote in Chicago. Hell, Jimmy Carter made his name in Georgia by cleaning up voter rolls.

This lack of trust is driven by Trump's inability to lose gracefully. No one has been able to convince a court of voter fraud. There have been numerous audits with all of the same results - no fraud. None.

Mike Lindell lost his business and his mind over voter fraud.

One side, and only one side, is pushing distrust in the integrity of the vote. And it is YOUR SIDE. It is Mr. Trump and the cowards in the GOP pushing these conspiracy theories on desperate dupes. It is people like YOU with this "both sides" falsehoods about voting integrity.

Would it not be in everyone's best interest to calmly address what Trump claims and then dispute those claims with evidence? Perhaps in a very public forum that everyone can witness?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

You have to ask yourself why you don't accept evidence as proof that something is so. That's because you are a conspiracy theorist. You make unevidenced claims. Instead of first looking at evidence and then coming to a conclusion you do just the opposite. Why do you do that? Is it because you are not a good observer? Probably.

Now ask yourself why you are not a good observer. How is a person not a good observer? How does a person proceed from conclusion to making unevidenced claims instead of proceeding from evidence to making conclusions? It's not rocket science.

And half the voting population are not conspiracy theorists. That's probably around 25%.

 

[laughing dog]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

"Long ago" dead people voted. Allegedly, JFK won Illinois because of the dead vote in Chicago. Hell, Jimmy Carter made his name in Georgia by cleaning up voter rolls.

This lack of trust is driven by Trump's inability to lose gracefully. No one has been able to convince a court of voter fraud. There have been numerous audits with all of the same results - no fraud. None.

Mike Lindell lost his business and his mind over voter fraud.

One side, and only one side, is pushing distrust in the integrity of the vote. And it is YOUR SIDE. It is Mr. Trump and the cowards in the GOP pushing these conspiracy theories on desperate dupes. It is people like YOU with this "both sides" falsehoods about voting integrity.

Would it not be in everyone's best interest to calmly address what Trump claims and then dispute those claims with evidence? Perhaps in a very public forum that everyone can witness?

It is in everyone's best interest for anyone making a claim to present evidence of its validity. The problem is that Trump has not presented any evidence to support his claims. His supporters have gone to court in a number of cases and failed to prevail. Arizona did a hand recount and the result was confirmed.

Trump's claims have been refuted time and time again. Frankly, at this point, anyone who is unaware of those refutations is either too lazy to look them up or doesn't want to accept the overwhelming evidence that Trump's claims are false. FFS, there is ample evidence that Trump knows they are lies.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

Then what are you doing to stop this potential violence? All you are doing is priming the pump for it by accepting the lies.

 

[RVonse]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

You have to ask yourself why you don't accept evidence as proof that something is so. That's because you are a conspiracy theorist. You make unevidenced claims. Instead of first looking at evidence and then coming to a conclusion you do just the opposite. Why do you do that? Is it because you are not a good observer? Probably.

Are you saying the OP is a conspiracy theorist? She is the one who started this thread.

Yes, I am the one who said we should all get along better. If that makes me a conspiracy theorist then guilty as charged.

 

[RVonse]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

Then what are you doing to stop this potential violence? All you are doing is priming the pump for it by accepting the lies.

Showing a possible solution which is what we did in the past. I know what we did in the past worked because everyone had faith in it.

Maybe you believe in electronic machines and mass mail in ballots and that's alright. But it would put a quick end end to their argument.

It is more important to get along than to be right.

 

[Elixir]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

Believing that malarkey is a litmus test for MAGAtry.
“We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting” is a hollow lament from the very voter segment that brought us the primary corrosive element to that trust.

 

[southernhybrid]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

There was no paper trail in any of the states I voted in during the 70s. Most states. used machines that were invented in the late 1800s.

Votes were mostly cast by Australian Secret Ballot until the advent of the locked mechanical lever machine, patented by Jacob H. Meyers (patent US415549A) in Nov. 1889, that discouraged tampering. Men were offered privacy while voting (thus continuing the secrecy of ballots), while the machines kept a running tally of votes, allowing for faster reporting of results. The lever machine was first used in 1892 in Lockport, New York. Meyers stated the machine was built to “protect mechanically the voter from rascaldom, and make the process of casting the ballot perfectly plain, simple and secret.” Alfred J. Gillespie would patent another version of the mechanical lever machine on July 11, 1899 (patent US628905A). [1] [6] [7]

Thomas E. Dewey, Governor of New York, entering a voting machine in the 1948 election. November 2, 1948.
Source: Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
The machines were widely praised. In 1898, the Brooklyn Eagle boasted that “where other cities were hours and even days in counting their votes, Rochester [New York] knew the complete result in the city on every office—State, County,

They stopped making these in the 1980s, but they were still used in some places in the 1990s. That was what was used in almost ever state I ever voted in, with the exception of Virginia, where I lived for about 2 years.

The machines we now use in Georgia print out a paper ballot that we check to make sure our votes were recorded properly. We then put the paper ballot into a box, that is protected by a poll worker. The purpose of the paper ballot is to have something to use in case a recount is needed, since so many people no longer trust the technology. Those paper ballots were recounted several times during the 2020 election, taking many long hours for the workers. The results always came out the sam way. Trump lost Georgia by over 11,000 votes. Poll workers received death threats in Fulton county, just for doing their job. The machines are more accurate and faster at counting the vote, as humans make more errors when they have to hand count. Plus, it takes much longer to get the results. It was Trump and his cohorts who made people believe that our voting system is unreliable. Sadly, his cult believes any lie he tells. He falsely stated that he won the popular vote in 2016. Nope. Another lie as there was no evidence that he won the popular vote.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Are you saying the OP is a conspiracy theorist?

No. Are you claiming Sohy is a conspiracy theorist? What evidence supports that claim? Please be specific. What in the OP is conspiratorial?

You are either serious or just pulling our chains. I don't have enough evidence to fully support either conclusion but I'm leaning toward your pulling our chains for the sake of personal satisfaction and gain. That would be called Game Theory. You can check it out.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

You have to ask yourself why you don't accept evidence as proof that something is so. That's because you are a conspiracy theorist. You make unevidenced claims. Instead of first looking at evidence and then coming to a conclusion you do just the opposite. Why do you do that? Is it because you are not a good observer? Probably.

Now ask yourself why you are not a good observer. How is a person not a good observer? How does a person proceed from conclusion to making unevidenced claims instead of proceeding from evidence to making conclusions? It's not rocket science.

And half the voting population are not conspiracy theorists. That's probably around 25%.

Yep. Good estimate. According to MSN, it's about 30%:

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/almost-third-americans-still-believe-2020-election-result-was-fraudule-rcna90145

 

[ZiprHead]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

"Long ago" dead people voted. Allegedly, JFK won Illinois because of the dead vote in Chicago. Hell, Jimmy Carter made his name in Georgia by cleaning up voter rolls.

This lack of trust is driven by Trump's inability to lose gracefully. No one has been able to convince a court of voter fraud. There have been numerous audits with all of the same results - no fraud. None.

Mike Lindell lost his business and his mind over voter fraud.

One side, and only one side, is pushing distrust in the integrity of the vote. And it is YOUR SIDE. It is Mr. Trump and the cowards in the GOP pushing these conspiracy theories on desperate dupes. It is people like YOU with this "both sides" falsehoods about voting integrity.

Would it not be in everyone's best interest to calmly address what Trump claims and then dispute those claims with evidence? Perhaps in a very public forum that everyone can witness?

You want us to prove that cheating is NOT being done? How does that work?

 

[laughing dog]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

Then what are you doing to stop this potential violence? All you are doing is priming the pump for it by accepting the lies.

Showing a possible solution which is what we did in the past. I know what we did in the past worked because everyone had faith in it.

But I don’t have faith in that.

Maybe you believe in electronic machines and mass mail in ballots and that's alright. But it would put a quick end end to their argument.

It is more important to get along than to be right.

No matter how Trump loses, he will cast doubt on the results, and his acolytes will believe him.

It is not more important to get along with the delusional if it harms the nation.

 

[Elixir]

You have to ask yourself why you don't accept evidence as proof that something is so.

That’s not true prima fascie. MAGA forbids asking such things.
Many of them don’t even know that Trump lies.
Most know it, but figure Orange Jesus works in mysterious ways. Trump is hung on the Cross of Democrats’ Invisible Election Fraud, and to deny that is to incur The Wrath.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You want us to prove that cheating is NOT being done? How does that work?

Right. Trying to prove a negative. Can't be done. But what can be done is to look at the evidence and come to a conclusion. That's how our courts work and how rational people come to conclusions about claims.

Pretty much everything we hear everyday is a claim of some kind, including what I just said. Rational people know the difference between evidenced and unevidenced claims. Irrational people don't have a whisker's clue about the function of evidence in resolving the veracity of a claim. It's just how their brains operate.