The evidence strongly suggests it's the Republicans who are trying to rig the election!

[Loren Pechtel]

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The problem isn't with the process, it's with the MAGA crowd trying to get you to believe there's a problem.

Electronic machines have no paper trail? Around here there's a printer attached to the machine inside a sealed but clear case. It has a very long roll of paper, it prints your votes on the paper and lets you verify that what's on the paper matches what you intended. Paper ballots, however, could be switched out undetectably. The electronic w/backup system is more secure.

The Republicans have looked and looked and looked and found no voting machine fraud.

They tell you they are common sense safeguards--but they are not. It's always an attempt to keep people they don't like from voting. Look what happened in Arizona--they tried to kick out a whole bunch of people that hadn't been required to prove citizenship. (Not that there is any evidence they aren't, they were simply registered before Arizona stuck the requirement in.) And hastily back-pedaled when they discovered that would hit more Republicans than Democrats.

The reality is you put your social security number on the registration. They know if the owner of that number is a citizen or not.

Or look at their recent obsession that Congress fortunately dropped. ID must either prove citizenship (ie, passport, naturalization certificate etc) or you need ID + birth certificate + legal name changes if they don't agree. Oops--note that this does not include the majority of married women. Oops, or Gilead? Either they are incompetent at writing laws (the sort of garbage you often see in initiatives) or they are trying to disenfranchise women.

 

[unapologetic]

You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail.

At my local poll, I vote on a touch screen, the machine prints out a PAPER record of my ballot, which I can clearly read. I then feed my ballot into a paper shredder sitting on top of a green plastic garbage can. OK seriously, it just looks that way, the poll watchers (from both parties) assured me that the gizmo on top just keeps the ballots lined-up and stacked neatly inside, and locked away. So there IS a paper trail at MY local poll.

Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better?

The Republicans and Rump do not want to make the system better. They are profiting from the mistrust.

I don't think that Trump was directly the cause though although he leveraged it to his advantage.

FauxNews 'trumped-up' the rumors.

The other side is saying the electronic machines can be hacked.

Yes. The other side being Rump, Republicans, and FauxNews.

I am saying it should be addressed so that trust for the other side can be established again.

Rump and the Republicans do not want to establish trust in the other side. They are profiting from the mistrust they created.

And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

I call Bullshit on that claim. You have been listening to propaganda from FauxNews.

It does not seem to me that political party is the most important factor in whether a given population has equitable access to the polls or not.

Then you don't know anything about 'gerrymandering' and the 'district restructuring' the Republicans did.

There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system.

Trumped-up by FauxNews, Rump, and the Republicans.

But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

The name calling started with FauxNews demonizing everything Democrats do. Democrats aren't just wrong. They are deliberately out to DESTROY the US. (according to Faux)

Would it not be in everyone's best interest to calmly address what Trump claims and then dispute those claims with evidence? Perhaps in a very public forum that everyone can witness?

Sorry, no. It is clearly in Rump's and Republican best interest to stir-up mistrust in election outcomes. It is only fair if he wins.

 

[Elixir]

The Republicans and Rump do not want to make the system better. They are profiting from the mistrust.

WORD.
I think RV knows it - it would be hard not to unless you're leading a very sheltered existence.

The other side is saying the electronic machines can be hacked.

Yes. The other side being Rump, Republicans, and FauxNews.

Don't you want to know how they know those machines can be hacked?
Were they perhaps "doing real world research"? Someone should look into that.

 

[unapologetic]

The Republicans and Rump do not want to make the system better. They are profiting from the mistrust.

WORD.
I think RV knows it - it would be hard not to unless you're leading a very sheltered existence.

I suspect that RV might be like those Intelligent design/anti-evolution activists who push for "teach the controversy" trying to paint both sides of the issue as equal. He keeps saying both sides mistrust the system. Which ain't so. He wants us to take Rump's claims seriously.
Rump has lost ALL credibility. Why waste time on him.

 

[Tigers!]

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The problem isn't with the process, it's with the MAGA crowd trying to get you to believe there's a problem.

Electronic machines have no paper trail? Around here there's a printer attached to the machine inside a sealed but clear case. It has a very long roll of paper, it prints your votes on the paper and lets you verify that what's on the paper matches what you intended. Paper ballots, however, could be switched out undetectably. The electronic w/backup system is more secure.

With all the hacking of data bases around the world, both government and private, I can understand why many would be concerned about the security, reliability, integrity of their vote. We should not blindly nor blithely dismiss such concerns.

 

[Tigers!]

You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail.

At my local poll, I vote on a touch screen, the machine prints out a PAPER record of my ballot, which I can clearly read. I then feed my ballot into a paper shredder sitting on top of a green plastic garbage can. OK seriously, it just looks that way, the poll watchers (from both parties) assured me that the gizmo on top just keeps the ballots lined-up and stacked neatly inside, and locked away. So there IS a paper trail at MY local poll.

Is it a paper shredder or not?

 

[unapologetic]

We should not blindly nor blithely dismiss such concerns.

We Don't.
Local people from BOTH PARTYS run the elections. And watch each other. If you don't trust them, VOLUNTEER to join them at the polls.
Be suspicious of the fear mongers who are spreading the FUD.
(pointing my finger at Rump, FauxNews, and Republicans)

 

[Shadowy Man]

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

I guess that the Republicans should have appointed some judges while Trump was in power. Seems odd that they wouldn’t try to safeguard the judicial system against Democratic tyranny

 

[unapologetic]

You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail.

At my local poll, I vote on a touch screen, the machine prints out a PAPER record of my ballot, which I can clearly read. I then feed my ballot into a paper shredder sitting on top of a green plastic garbage can. OK seriously, it just looks that way, the poll watchers (from both parties) assured me that the gizmo on top just keeps the ballots lined-up and stacked neatly inside, and locked away. So there IS a paper trail at MY local poll.

Is it a paper shredder or not?

(sigh) OK seriously, it just looks that way. Maybe I shouldn't joke about it. Sorry.

 

[Tigers!]

You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail.

At my local poll, I vote on a touch screen, the machine prints out a PAPER record of my ballot, which I can clearly read. I then feed my ballot into a paper shredder sitting on top of a green plastic garbage can. OK seriously, it just looks that way, the poll watchers (from both parties) assured me that the gizmo on top just keeps the ballots lined-up and stacked neatly inside, and locked away. So there IS a paper trail at MY local poll.

Is it a paper shredder or not?

(sigh) OK seriously, it just looks that way. Maybe I shouldn't joke about it. Sorry.

In the current environment you have just joke. They can unfortunately cause more trouble to careless or paranoid persons.

 

[Patooka]

No I believe in both sides. Otherwise you are automatically hating half the country and that can not work. Both sides can have different opinions but they do have to show respect for each other again. They have to at least come to agreement with some basic rules of what a fair election looks like.

Your history is proof enough that you don't believe in any of that. That you complain about a "fair election" at the end is just icing on the cake.

Enjoy, Citizens United boy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

. There is so much of this crap going on by the Republicans, most likely to try and make naive and low information people believe that our elections are not fair. it's rather sickening.

You don't believe in "both sides". You love that the right has had its thumb on the scale for fucking decades. Matt Labash said it best.

No I believe in both sides. Otherwise you are automatically hating half the country and that can not work. Both sides can have different opinions but they do have to show respect for each other again. They have to at least come to agreement with some basic rules of what a fair election looks like.

They know what's fair. It's sowing distrust is a tactic to confuse the issue. Think of how Big Tobacco reacted to things like cigarettes being linked to lung cancer. We are seeing the same thing from the Republicans. For the same reason.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is not a both sides issue. Not even close.

That is what the other side says too. Which is why I suggested we go back to a time that I remember voting did work. Both parties respected the vote back in the 60's and 70's. Back then there WAS a paper trail and humans mostly counted the vote. There was no way an internet could virus the count and the mechanical voting machines of that day did have a paper trail. Much better security than what we have these days.

Easy to throw away the ballots and replace them with the ones marked the way you want. Paper would leave no fingerprints.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As Trump said during the debate, you don't know that. He was never allowed to followup his allegations because the other side automatically squashed the effort using a technical legal procedure of standing.

A person that loses in court over a technical legal challenge of standing is NEVER going to be satisfied he was wrong, you have to prove you were right by looking at the evidence. You can not expect the other side to think any differently.

The reason The Felon repeatedly lost in court is that you're not allowed to lie.

"What is your evidence there was fraud?"

"We have none."

"Case dismissed."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The other side is saying the electronic machines can be hacked. They are also saying the mail in ballots can be stuffed. I'm not saying either is true or not but I am saying it should be addressed so that trust for the other side can be established again.

Well, that should be enough to settle the matter. To stuff a ballot box you would end up with too many ballots. While there would be no way to determine what had been done it would be completely clear that it was wrong. Yet that never happened.

Why would it be so bad to ban the electronic machines that really aren't necessary if they give the other side trust in the system? And why would it be so be so bad to make sure mail in ballots are the exception and not the rule? What is wrong with people showing up at the polls like they used to if there is nothing to hide?

Paper ballots leave no trail when you tamper with them.

 

[bilby]

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The problem isn't with the process, it's with the MAGA crowd trying to get you to believe there's a problem.

Electronic machines have no paper trail? Around here there's a printer attached to the machine inside a sealed but clear case. It has a very long roll of paper, it prints your votes on the paper and lets you verify that what's on the paper matches what you intended. Paper ballots, however, could be switched out undetectably. The electronic w/backup system is more secure.

With all the hacking of data bases around the world, both government and private, I can understand why many would be concerned about the security, reliability, integrity of their vote. We should not blindly nor blithely dismiss such concerns.

One need not be blind to grasp that voting machines are air-gapped from the internet and can only be hacked by people with physical access to the machines.

They are therefore nowhere close to being as vulnerable as "data bases around the world", and so it would be foolish in the extreme to draw such an analogy.

Blithely dismissing concerns that are not based in reality is not only acceptable, it's highly laudable.

 

[Patooka]

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

And if you believe that malarkey then you are uninformed and perhaps even delusional. Lots of people just like yourself so don't feel too bad.

So about half of the US (not your half though) is delusion so don't feel bad about it?? I feel very bad about it because I don't like violence and civil war. I feel bad about it because I live here.

You should bad about it. It's people like yourself that enabled Jan6, if not openly advocating it. Or shall I remind you again of that thread you created citing Tucker Carlson that tried to rewrite what happened that day?

 

[Tigers!]

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The problem isn't with the process, it's with the MAGA crowd trying to get you to believe there's a problem.

Electronic machines have no paper trail? Around here there's a printer attached to the machine inside a sealed but clear case. It has a very long roll of paper, it prints your votes on the paper and lets you verify that what's on the paper matches what you intended. Paper ballots, however, could be switched out undetectably. The electronic w/backup system is more secure.

With all the hacking of data bases around the world, both government and private, I can understand why many would be concerned about the security, reliability, integrity of their vote. We should not blindly nor blithely dismiss such concerns.

One need not be blind to grasp that voting machines are air-gapped from the internet and can only be hacked by people with physical access to the machines.

They are therefore nowhere close to being as vulnerable as "data bases around the world", and so it would be foolish in the extreme to draw such an analogy.

Blithely dismissing concerns that are not based in reality is not only acceptable, it's highly laudable.

I used to feel the same way. Air-gapped computers are not as invulnerable as once thought. Whilst the attack vectors are in their early stages I would not wish to be trying to keep out hackers in say, 10 years. Trying to control the outcome of an election for a G7 nation would be worth a fair bit of effort and money.

 

[Harry Bosch]

That doesn't happen anymore mostly because no one trusts the other party and neither party can even agree what a fair election looks like. You would think electronic machines would be banned simply because they leave no paper trail. And you would think everyone should come with a drivers license or equivalent since everywhere else that would be standard. And you would also think that mail in ballots should be an exception and not the rule. But the Democrats and Republicans can't even agree to that! To the most fundamental and common sense safeguards.

Are the Republicans and Democrats cheating? Almost everyone on both sides thinks there is cheating so why not at least agree to make the system better? And it wouldn't take a lot of effort and money......just go back to exactly the way we used to vote with the same equipment because that worked.

The problem isn't with the process, it's with the MAGA crowd trying to get you to believe there's a problem.

Electronic machines have no paper trail? Around here there's a printer attached to the machine inside a sealed but clear case. It has a very long roll of paper, it prints your votes on the paper and lets you verify that what's on the paper matches what you intended. Paper ballots, however, could be switched out undetectably. The electronic w/backup system is more secure.

With all the hacking of data bases around the world, both government and private, I can understand why many would be concerned about the security, reliability, integrity of their vote. We should not blindly nor blithely dismiss such concerns.

One need not be blind to grasp that voting machines are air-gapped from the internet and can only be hacked by people with physical access to the machines.

They are therefore nowhere close to being as vulnerable as "data bases around the world", and so it would be foolish in the extreme to draw such an analogy.

Blithely dismissing concerns that are not based in reality is not only acceptable, it's highly laudable.

I used to feel the same way. Air-gapped computers are not as invulnerable as once thought. Whilst the attack vectors are in their early stages I would not wish to be trying to keep out hackers in say, 10 years. Trying to control the outcome of an election for a G7 nation would be worth a fair bit of effort and money.

Sure, neither side trusts the other. However, here is the difference: republicans don't trust dems despite there being no evidence of democratic vote fraud. Dems don't trust republicans (maga) because there is evidence of voter fraud!! Do you see the difference?

You are never going to get to the evidence unless you look for it. And the Democrats have made that legally impossible through legal maneuvers

What on earth are you talking about?

He's talking about conspiracy theory 101.

I'm talking in answer to the OP. There is a big lack of trust when it comes to our voting system. And I don't have all the answers and have said as much excepting that our voting system seemed to work long ago. And even if I did have the answers, that would not matter since I'm not important. But back decades ago there was trust in the system and there was trust in each other. We were somehow able to come together on at least the integrity of voting. There was no name calling and telling the other side they were completely stupid.

And that's no conspiracy theory.

"Long ago" dead people voted. Allegedly, JFK won Illinois because of the dead vote in Chicago. Hell, Jimmy Carter made his name in Georgia by cleaning up voter rolls.

This lack of trust is driven by Trump's inability to lose gracefully. No one has been able to convince a court of voter fraud. There have been numerous audits with all of the same results - no fraud. None.

Mike Lindell lost his business and his mind over voter fraud.

One side, and only one side, is pushing distrust in the integrity of the vote. And it is YOUR SIDE. It is Mr. Trump and the cowards in the GOP pushing these conspiracy theories on desperate dupes. It is people like YOU with this "both sides" falsehoods about voting integrity.

Would it not be in everyone's best interest to calmly address what Trump claims and then dispute those claims with evidence? Perhaps in a very public forum that everyone can witness?

I have a question for you. If the voting system is rigged; why don't the republicans do anything about it? First off, the allegations of voter fraud only seem to pop up when dems win; not when republicans win. But where are the republican congressional investigations? Where are the proposed republican bills to beef up election security? Stiffen crimes for those who violate campaign laws?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I have a question for you. If the voting system is rigged; why don't the republicans do anything about it? First off, the allegations of voter fraud only seem to pop up when dems win; not when republicans win. But where are the republican congressional investigations? Where are the proposed republican bills to beef up election security? Stiffen crimes for those who violate campaign laws?

I can answer that in two words. C O N S P I R A C Y T H E O R Y