The failure of American public schools to teach children the truth regarding our history

[bilby]

As far as you know, is the true history of Australia being taught in your country these days?

Not as comprehensively as it should be, but things have certainly improved.

And a teacher who taught a factual history of the abuses heaped on the aboriginal population would more likely be praised than condemned, at least by those in government right now at the federal level.

We will likely have a referendum this year on the amendment of our constitution to create an aboriginal voice in federal government.

The Voice will be an independent, representative advisory body for First Nations people. It will provide a permanent means to advise the Australian Parliament and Government on the views of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples on matters that affect them.

A set of principles that describe how the Voice will work were agreed to by the First Nations Referendum Working Group.

The Voice is a body that will:

• provide independent advice to Parliament and Government
• be chosen by First Nations people based on the wishes of local communities
• be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities
• be empowering, community led, inclusive, respectful, culturally informed and gender balanced, and include youth
• be accountable and transparent
• work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures.

https://voice.niaa.gov.au/

There are still plenty of people who get butthurt when the anniversary of the British landing in Australia is referred to as "Invasion Day", so clearly there's lots of progress still to be made.

 

[southernhybrid]

As far as you know, is the true history of Australia being taught in your country these days?

Not as comprehensively as it should be, but things have certainly improved.

And a teacher who taught a factual history of the abuses heaped on the aboriginal population would more likely be praised than condemned, at least by those in government right now at the federal level.

We will likely have a referendum this year on the amendment of our constitution to create an aboriginal voice in federal government.

The Voice will be an independent, representative advisory body for First Nations people. It will provide a permanent means to advise the Australian Parliament and Government on the views of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples on matters that affect them.

A set of principles that describe how the Voice will work were agreed to by the First Nations Referendum Working Group.

The Voice is a body that will:

• provide independent advice to Parliament and Government
• be chosen by First Nations people based on the wishes of local communities
• be representative of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities
• be empowering, community led, inclusive, respectful, culturally informed and gender balanced, and include youth
• be accountable and transparent
• work alongside existing organisations and traditional structures.

https://voice.niaa.gov.au/

There are still plenty of people who get butthurt when the anniversary of the British landing in Australia is referred to as "Invasion Day", so clearly there's lots of progress still to be made.

Thanks for your reply. It was only since the MAGA crowd became so influential that teachers have become criticized for teaching the truth about our history. I can only hope that this is a temporary situation, but right now, it's getting somewhat scary here, watching democracy being threatened by so many on the far right, as well as seeing the influence of the liars on Fox Noise, who have so easily manipulated so many people.

It's a relief to have a president, who of course isn't perfect and of course does make mistakes, but actually cares about preserving democracy and helping people who suffer in poverty etc.

 

[Elixir]

Is it enough to say they were killed or is that whitewashing it?

Not, not enough. Everybody dies, many of us get killed. The real horror isn’t that they were killed, it‘s WHY they were killed. Chinese sent into mines with explosives on a short fuse, blacks murdered for suspicion of looking at a white woman … it’s the devaluation of human life that makes killings into atrocities.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it should be age appropriate. Small children should be taught what happened ,but without value judgements.

Can't do that. That normalizes the event.

I question whether it should be described in all its graphic detail. I don't know to what extent it's been vetted but I've read some pretty horrid things about Columbus, as I'm sure there is much more to go around regarding slavery, American Indians, Chinese, etc. Is it enough to say they were killed or is that whitewashing it? And at what age is it appropriate? I mean some of this shit is disturbing for anyone to read about.
Also as we look further back in history, was it not widely held that all peoples were not created equal? For proper context, can this be instilled within the student?

I think Manifest Destiny was part of the curriculum regarding the actions against Native Americans in US History AP when I was in high school. The trouble with Manifest Destiny is that it doesn't play well with the whole religion thing, as it used religion to justify what was happening. After all, they were on a holy mission from their god to make the savages civilized and closer to Jesus. This is well established in historical records, but some Christians won't like it.

I think this can play best by using super hero narratives with smaller children (What if Superman was in charge... what is the right moral code? Or Magneto in X-Men, trying to fix a real injustice the wrong way. Both sides of the card of face and heel on moral codes and justice), and straight up as history for teens... if the DeSantis's would allow it.

One of the bigger problems we are facing is the bald faced lying by the GOP on education and a lot of people complaining about how stuff is taught in school today... that don't have a damn clue what is being taught. It'd be like bitching about the ref'ing in a game of a sport a person doesn't even watch!

I don't think the details need be drawn out for any minor beyond "murdered" and "tortured". As we age we all become aware of the cruelties people have and do inflict on one another forever and ever.

Not necessarily. After all, we still have idiots saying the Civil War wasn't just about slavery... when in reality, it was almost exclusively about slavery, just with different angles of it. We have anti-Semites growing up in our country, despite the Holocaust.

But until someone actually shows me a curriculum, I can't speak to its legitimacy or illegitimacy. I can only speak to what they are teaching my fourth grade daughter, and up to this point, it seems quite reasonable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is it enough to say they were killed or is that whitewashing it?

Not, not enough. Everybody dies, many of us get killed. The real horror isn’t that they were killed, it‘s WHY they were killed. Chinese sent into mines with explosives on a short fuse, blacks murdered for suspicion of looking at a white woman … it’s the devaluation of human life that makes killings into atrocities.

Chinese were sent into tunnels that were being built with nitroglycerin. But to be fair... the railroads would have gladly have done so to white people too (see Eugene Victor Debs and the Wobblies).

The terribly underexposed issue with China dates back to how we treated them as a nation in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. You want to talk about stuff that isn't discussed in US History (and especially impacts current events), let's talk the Opium Wars!

History is huge. We do need to teach the what and why. But first you need to teach the 480i version, then the 480p version, the 720p version, the 1080i version... and on and on. The fundamentals need to be established to help provide other aspects context.

 

[Elixir]

Chinese were sent into tunnels that were being built with nitroglycerin.

Somehow I find that slightly less disgusting than sending them into gold mines with dynamite. Something more heroic about furthering the common good (infrastructure) vs feeding the pursuit of filthy lucre…
Of course they’re still just as dead.

 

[lostone]

Employee's lives have always been expendable, in many industries.

 

[Oleg]

History is huge. We do need to teach the what and why. But first you need to teach the 480i version, then the 480p version, the 720p version, the 1080i version... and on and on. The fundamentals need to be established to help provide other aspects context.

I'll piggy-back on this. Most kids don't want to be in school; and fewer care about history. This obsession by adults to politicize public school history class rather than give a broad survey does nothing for the kids or society. Every interest group has its historial nugget to push grievance. Put bluntly, if public schools are failing at the basics, then its neglect and abuse to waste time on political greivance. It's just grift.

Outrage on Twitter after Baltimore reveals zero students proficient in math across 23 schools: ‘FAILURE'

A new report sparked outrage on Twitter after it revealed that zero Baltimore students in 23 different public schools across the city are proficient in math.

www.foxbangor.com

The Baltimore public school system boasted a $1.6 billion budget in 2022, according to Fox Baltimore. When divided by the number of budgeted students, the average cost came out to $21,606 per student.

 

[Politesse]

I am very confused by what some of the folks here think is going on in history classes. You know you can just look up what's in the history curriculum for your state, right? Teachers don't just wing it, they have to teach to the nearest upcoming standardized exam, or lose their job within a few semesters of underperformance. This scenario in which teachers are randomly teaching modern political issues but failing to cover "a broad survey" of history or "the 480i" version of history is a completely imaginary problem. That summary version is all most American students ever get, unless they manage to enroll in an AP or Dual Enrollment course in their high school years.

And as near as I can tell, very few of them actually remember that barebones presentation in any detail, no doubt because it is nearly without context and consequently boring as fuck. Whenever I mention a historical event in my lectures (I teach college freshman and sophomores mostly) I get either complete confusion, complete disinterest, or that slightly glazed look every instructor knows, the face that says "I remember having those words spoken at me before but not what they mean".

Making the curriculum even more sparse, more bland, and less connected to current political realities is the exact opposite of what we need, if history is to be saved as a domain of common knowledge. But of course, saving history is not what the conservative regime wants, is it? They want a pageant of history, not a study of history. History is "not a real degree", and its insights are nothing but a political ploy by the Woke Left. A vague sense that "things were better/ideal back when everyone followed traditional values" is all you need to be the kind of drooling fool who votes for a Trump or DeSantis type, and that's all they want in our schools. They don't want the inscription on the statue to be accurate, they just want to have statues around. They frequently call walking by a statue "education", in fact. The Founding Fathers are watching over us. What more do you need to know?

Blind fools.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the dominion of heaven in people’s faces. Neither do you yourselves enter, nor will you permit entry to others."

 

[laughing dog]

History is huge. We do need to teach the what and why. But first you need to teach the 480i version, then the 480p version, the 720p version, the 1080i version... and on and on. The fundamentals need to be established to help provide other aspects context.

I'll piggy-back on this. Most kids don't want to be in school; and fewer care about history. This obsession by adults to politicize public school history class rather than give a broad survey does nothing for the kids or society. Every interest group has its historial nugget to push grievance. Put bluntly, if public schools are failing at the basics, then its neglect and abuse to waste time on political greivance. It's just grift.

Outrage on Twitter after Baltimore reveals zero students proficient in math across 23 schools: ‘FAILURE'

A new report sparked outrage on Twitter after it revealed that zero Baltimore students in 23 different public schools across the city are proficient in math.

www.foxbangor.com

The Baltimore public school system boasted a $1.6 billion budget in 2022, according to Fox Baltimore. When divided by the number of budgeted students, the average cost came out to $21,606 per student.

Abstracting from the obvious bias of the news source and the difficulties of parsing public school budgets, this response takes an alleged situation at one public school system to generalise about all public schools.

 

[Elixir]

this response takes an alleged situation at one public school system to generalise about all public schools.

Isn't that SOP in Republicans' war against education?

 

[Swammerdami]

It's not only American history that is censored and distorted, but also European and world history. E.g., they ban the fact that Napoleon in Egypt shot off the nose of the Sphinx with his cannon. It's a travesty that these important facts are suppressed by our prejudiced educators.

Nitpick(?): Google and Wikipedia are not eager to confirm this Napoleon myth.

[the myth] is refuted by several sources predating the birth of Napoleon. Not only are there paintings from the 17th century which depict the Sphinx in this way but the 15th century Arab historian al-Maqrīzī also acknowledged its broken nose, attributing it to a Sufi Muslim extremist called Mohamed Sa'm al-Dahr who he claimed broke it in 1378 and was later executed for vandalism.

If Napoleon were really the vandal, perhaps Mohamed Sa'm al-Dahr deserves a posthumous pardon.

Or should Sa'm al-Dahr be judged innocent for a DIFFERENT reason? According to this source. "Archaeologist Mark Lehner performed an archaeological study on the Sphinx and concluded that its nose was intentionally broken with instruments sometime between the 3rd and 10th centuries AD."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

History is huge. We do need to teach the what and why. But first you need to teach the 480i version, then the 480p version, the 720p version, the 1080i version... and on and on. The fundamentals need to be established to help provide other aspects context.

I'll piggy-back on this. Most kids don't want to be in school; and fewer care about history.

That isn't piggy backing, that's hijacking. That isn't remotely what I was saying.

This obsession by adults to politicize public school history class rather than give a broad survey does nothing for the kids or society.

It would be the conservatives censoring books in English class, trying to get religion into Biology/Science, and meddling in history books

Every interest group has its historial nugget to push grievance. Put bluntly, if public schools are failing at the basics, then its neglect and abuse to waste time on political greivance. It's just grift.

Outrage on Twitter after Baltimore reveals zero students proficient in math across 23 schools: ‘FAILURE'

A new report sparked outrage on Twitter after it revealed that zero Baltimore students in 23 different public schools across the city are proficient in math.

www.foxbangor.com

The Baltimore public school system boasted a $1.6 billion budget in 2022, according to Fox Baltimore. When divided by the number of budgeted students, the average cost came out to $21,606 per student.

Talk about abusing statistics.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

History is huge. We do need to teach the what and why. But first you need to teach the 480i version, then the 480p version, the 720p version, the 1080i version... and on and on. The fundamentals need to be established to help provide other aspects context.

I'll piggy-back on this. Most kids don't want to be in school; and fewer care about history. This obsession by adults to politicize public school history class rather than give a broad survey does nothing for the kids or society. Every interest group has its historial nugget to push grievance. Put bluntly, if public schools are failing at the basics, then its neglect and abuse to waste time on political greivance. It's just grift.

Outrage on Twitter after Baltimore reveals zero students proficient in math across 23 schools: ‘FAILURE'

A new report sparked outrage on Twitter after it revealed that zero Baltimore students in 23 different public schools across the city are proficient in math.

www.foxbangor.com

The Baltimore public school system boasted a $1.6 billion budget in 2022, according to Fox Baltimore. When divided by the number of budgeted students, the average cost came out to $21,606 per student.

Abstracting from the obvious bias of the news source and the difficulties of parsing public school budgets, this response takes an alleged situation at one public school system to generalise about all public schools.

I don't know, "outrage on Twitter" seems unusual, so something important must be happening, like major malfeasance of school budgeting in an urban area.... or Netflix rates are going up $1 a month.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Making the curriculum even more sparse, more bland, and less connected to current political realities is the exact opposite of what we need, if history is to be saved as a domain of common knowledge. But of course, saving history is not what the conservative regime wants, is it? They want a pageant of history, not a study of history. History is "not a real degree", and its insights are nothing but a political ploy by the Woke Left. A vague sense that "things were better/ideal back when everyone followed traditional values" is all you need to be the kind of drooling fool who votes for a Trump or DeSantis type, and that's all they want in our schools. They don't want the inscription on the statue to be accurate, they just want to have statues around. They frequently call walking by a statue "education", in fact. The Founding Fathers are watching over us. What more do you need to know?

Blind fools.

Dude, "pageant of history" is an awesome description.

I wouldn't say they those whores are "blind fools". Well, Trump is, but that whore DeSantis is more a partisan hack looking for an agenda that he can rile a base with. He wasn't always like this. Much like that political whore Stefanik in New York who slammed hard right when that was where the power could be had. So it is even worse, as many of these people don't even believe in this shit, they just know it can help them get power and get elected.

 

[Politesse]

Making the curriculum even more sparse, more bland, and less connected to current political realities is the exact opposite of what we need, if history is to be saved as a domain of common knowledge. But of course, saving history is not what the conservative regime wants, is it? They want a pageant of history, not a study of history. History is "not a real degree", and its insights are nothing but a political ploy by the Woke Left. A vague sense that "things were better/ideal back when everyone followed traditional values" is all you need to be the kind of drooling fool who votes for a Trump or DeSantis type, and that's all they want in our schools. They don't want the inscription on the statue to be accurate, they just want to have statues around. They frequently call walking by a statue "education", in fact. The Founding Fathers are watching over us. What more do you need to know?

Blind fools.

Dude, "pageant of history" is an awesome description.

I wouldn't say they those whores are "blind fools". Well, Trump is, but that whore DeSantis is more a partisan hack looking for an agenda that he can rile a base with. He wasn't always like this. Much like that political whore Stefanik in New York who slammed hard right when that was where the power could be had. So it is even worse, as many of these people don't even believe in this shit, they just know it can help them get power and get elected.

I mean, I think that's certainly true. A lot of these cretins have Ivy League degrees themselves, it's the rest of us poor sots they're trying to avoid letting in. Indeed, you mention De Santis, who in the course of studying for his degree in history at Yale probably learned that Florida was acquired for the express purpose of becoming a slave state, you know? He even wrote essays about it, I wouldn't be surprised. But kids, he would argue, don't need to hear about any of that except in the most vague and non-judgemental terms. A triumphalist narrative in which the US is ludicrously poised as a heroic force that eventually would have banned slavery no matter what happened. Discussions of why the institution existed in the first place? What it was actually like for those involved? The connection to modern issues like penal law, policing, and economic theories? That can wait til college. He no doubt knows exactly why, in Iraq, he and his fellow soldiers still routinely called uncontrolled territory "Indian Country". But the students in his state schools don't need to know about the Seminole Nation at all, except perhaps as a thing that used to exist - as a "primitive tribe" - before the US came along. The rest can wait til college.

Oh, and don't you know, college "isn't for everyone".

 

[Gun Nut]

I debated about where to put this thread and considered adding to the one on Critical Race Theory, but since this is highly political and mostly associated with the Red states in the country, I decided to put it here. If mods think it belongs somewhere else, feel free to move it.

I'm giving a rather long article that gives many examples of how teachers are being silenced by parents and politicians when it comes to teaching things like Women's Rights, Slavery, Racism etc.

Please read it if you want to comment. I'll quote some examples from the article.

https://wapo.st/3mvp6uL

Excerpts from Mary Wollstonecraft’s “A Vindication of the Rights of Woman.” Passages from Christopher Columbus’s journal describing his brutal treatment of Indigenous peoples. A data set on the New York Police Department’s use of force, analyzed by race.
These are among the items teachers have nixed from their lesson plans this school year and last, as they face pressure from parents worried about political indoctrination and administrators wary of controversy, as well as a spate of new state laws restricting education on race, gender and LGBTQ issues.

“I felt very bleak,” said Lisa Childers, an Arkansas teacher who was forced by an assistant principal, for reasons never stated, into yanking Wollstonecraft’s famous 1792 polemic from her high school English class in 2021.

The quiet censorship comes as debates over whether and how to instruct children about race, racism, U.S. history, gender identity and sexuality inflame politics and consume the nation. These fights, which have already generated at least 64 state laws reshaping what children can learn and do at school, are likely to intensify ahead of the 2024 presidential election. At the same time, an ascendant parents’ rights movement born of the pandemic is seeking — and winning — greater control over how schools select, evaluate and offer children access to both classroom lessons and library books.
In response, teachers are changing how they teach.

There's a lot more examples in the article. I find this frightening. When I was a child, I wasn't taught all of the horrors of American history, but at least I was taught that slavery was wrong. Your thoughts.

Is there anyone in the US in 2023 who doesn't think slavery in the US was wrong? Maybe a crazy person here or there. I think the lady in the video was just being cautious with regard to teachers making moral judgement regarding various US actions over the years, even though slavery is a bit of a no brainer. There are other aspects of history where its not quite so clear cut, for example the US dropping nuclear bombs on Japan to end WWII. A case can be made for that being wrong, or the being the right, albeit horrendous thing to do at the time. In that case, I think the teacher would be wise to open that question up for discussion in the class, but probably should refrain from taking a stance that that was the wrong thing to do.

Every single believer in the Bible MUST believe slavery is GOOD... After all, the Bible god character gave very specific guidance on how to handle slaves (i.e. take men from neighboring lands to work and women to "do as you please".. you may beat them for any or no reason, as long as you don't kill them - but if you do kill them, you need to pay their master compensation... etc..). Therefore to self-identify as a bible-believing Christian must mean you support slavery.

 

[Politesse]

Therefore to self-identify as a bible-believing Christian must mean you support slavery.

And the monarchy...

 

[southernhybrid]

We don't expect children to learn every detail of our horrid past. We just want children to be taught the truth about the history of our country, which sometimes makes progress and other times takes many steps backwards

I gave the example of how the history of Columbus was taught when I was a child in NJ. It was all a lie. I was taught the Columbus was some type of hero who discovered the country, when the fact is that Columbus committed genocide and treated the original natives of the land that he "discovered" as slaves. Just teach the truth.

Teach that slavery was an abomination, and slaves weren't happy little dancing folks who loved being treated like shit. Teach as much as possible so children understand why so many Native Americans and Black citizens are often still suffering as a result of how their ancestors were mistreated, as well as the result of prejudice that many people continue to hold.

I"m not talking about all Black people. Many are very successful and some even consider themselves privileged. The only Black girls I knew in high school were well above my class, being the daughters of doctors and lawyers. But, whenever I used to drive through rural Georgia, where cotton still grows, and saw run down little shacks inhabited by poor, very dark skinned Black folks. I knew that they were still suffering in poverty, often because of the way their ancestors were treated. You can't convince people of that, but if you give them the facts regarding history, most will understand that being mistreated can impact future generations.

So, we can't teach children every aspect of history and how it's impacted the current population, but at least history should be taught honestly. There is no reason for white children to feel shamed because of what happened in the past. That's insane, and I do have to wonder if some of these overly protective parents are putting ideas in their kids heads because what I've read is that kids, regardless of their skin color, all want to know about the past.

My closest Black friend and I discuss race and racism quite often. She just tells me how glad she is that she din't live when people like her were enslaved and I tell her I feel the same way. Although my ancestors weren't even in this country during those times, I'd like to think that I'd be a fierce abolitionist if I had lived in the US during that time period. Most of us here are likely the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of immigrants. It's idiotic to feel ashamed of your skin color or ethnic background. Nobody gets to choose those things. We should want everyone to be treated the same regardless of their race, ethnic background or religious beliefs for that matter. I'll get off my soap box now, but I don't understand why anyone, unless they are racist or sexist for that matter don't want their children to know the truth of the history of the country. And, I don't think history is boring, unless the teacher is boring. The teachers who have been condemned in the linked article sound like they are all very interesting teachers who take their jobs seriously. These are the types of teachers the country needs. There are plenty of worthless, boring teachers who don't really care about their students. They aren't the ones teaching the interesting yet often awful parts of our history.

 

[TSwizzle]

Every single believer in the Bible MUST believe slavery is GOOD... After all, the Bible god character gave very specific guidance on how to handle slaves (i.e. take men from neighboring lands to work and women to "do as you please".. you may beat them for any or no reason, as long as you don't kill them - but if you do kill them, you need to pay their master compensation... etc..). Therefore to self-identify as a bible-believing Christian must mean you support slavery.

Likewise every muslim believer.

Let's see some of that religion's ugly history taught in schools.