The feminazis have taken over and ruined Star Wars!

[Underseer]

Once again, we have a right wingnut who seems to think freedom of speech means freedom from criticism.

 

[whichphilosophy]

What Feminazis

We can assume there is no 'Feminazi plot here since there is no evidence presented to demonstrate such.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

We can assume there is no 'Feminazi plot here since there is no evidence presented to demonstrate such.

That's only because the feminazis are so good at covering their tracks. Don't be such a sheeple and believe their lies so easily.

 

[dismal]

I just watched the new Star Wars on video last night. It shames me to know that one day I'm going to be lying on my death bed and realize that those were two hours I could have spent at the office being a productive citizen.

In stead, I just threw that time away being entertained by something I enjoyed. I'm not going to get that part of my life back.

Says man nearing 50,000 posts.

 

[Malintent]

Now, I'm not saying the Empire were saints, but you can't just take down the main source of order in the Galaxy without a plan for after the war.

Also, the killing of the 1.7 million people of the so-called "death star" crew is one of the most barbaric atrocities ever perpetrated. Most of those people were peaceful civilians with families or soldiers from poor planets who had signed up to get free college.

They signed up for service in an army they should have known is repressive. I don't have a big problem with their deaths.

But what about all the civilian contractors and such that were just hired to do the electrical and plumbing work??? It was a terrorist attack!

 

[whichphilosophy]

We can assume there is no 'Feminazi plot here since there is no evidence presented to demonstrate such.

That's only because the feminazis are so good at covering their tracks. Don't be such a sheeple and believe their lies so easily.

Maybe they negotiated with the producers and key investors in their bedrooms to also determine women with the biggest parts. So maybe movies are still made the same way as they used to be.

 

[KeepTalking]

These movies are not the real issue.

You seem to have a strange way of expressing that viewpoint.

What is the real issue is emotional attachment to things of negative value, or little value.

If you think I (or most any casual Star Wars fan) have an emotional attachment to Star Wars, then you are pretty far off base.

We need to stop this emotional dither and be rational. Star Wars is just some of that dither and the escapism is welcomed usually by people who are already emotional wrecks who feel superior...because they never think to glance in the mirror.

Yes, Star Wars is entertainment and escapism for me, but I don't get emotional about it, and I certainly don't confuse it with reality. I personally feel rather well adjusted emotionally at this point in my life, and I honestly don't harbor feelings of superiority.

On the other hand, you often seem to be posting from a position of smug superiority, yourself. Is there some emotional wreckage there for which you are trying to compensate?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Ok, I'm a self confessed nerd, but this "Feminazis taking over Star Wars" thread has turned into a Star Wars minutia geek fest centering around the realities of forced labor.

I know. A Star Wars thread on the internet devolving into a pedantic discussion of irrelevant minutia. I don't think anybody saw that one coming.

You know who else didn't see that coming?

HITLER!

 

[Arctish]

Now, I'm not saying the Empire were saints, but you can't just take down the main source of order in the Galaxy without a plan for after the war.

Also, the killing of the 1.7 million people of the so-called "death star" crew is one of the most barbaric atrocities ever perpetrated. Most of those people were peaceful civilians with families or soldiers from poor planets who had signed up to get free college.

And most of the sailors on a warshuip are just dudes who need a paycheck. If that warship is going around levelling cities, however, there's a moral obligation for people to respond and take down the warship. The Death Star had just destroyed Alderran and killed countless millions of innocent people and was on track to do the same sort of thing again. The collateral damage to the innocent worker bees on the ship was an acceptable loss.

Now, you do have a point about a lack of a plan by the Rebel Alliance. The galaxy is filled with countless tribes that have longstanding historical conflicts with each other and they've only been kept from each others' throats due to the presence of a strongman central government, first run by the Jedi and then by the Emperor, and when those strongmen were removed, everyone just started up with their old wars.

In terms of saving lives, the destruction of the two Death Stars was justifiable. But the lack of a plan to deal with the ineviatble economic fallout was inexcusable. You can't just obliterate accumulated interplanetary wealth like that and not get Hoovervilles and riots as a result.

 

[dismal]

And most of the sailors on a warshuip are just dudes who need a paycheck. If that warship is going around levelling cities, however, there's a moral obligation for people to respond and take down the warship. The Death Star had just destroyed Alderran and killed countless millions of innocent people and was on track to do the same sort of thing again. The collateral damage to the innocent worker bees on the ship was an acceptable loss.

Now, you do have a point about a lack of a plan by the Rebel Alliance. The galaxy is filled with countless tribes that have longstanding historical conflicts with each other and they've only been kept from each others' throats due to the presence of a strongman central government, first run by the Jedi and then by the Emperor, and when those strongmen were removed, everyone just started up with their old wars.

In terms of saving lives, the destruction of the two Death Stars was justifiable. But the lack of a plan to deal with the ineviatble economic fallout was inexcusable. You can't just obliterate accumulated interplanetary wealth like that and not get Hoovervilles and riots as a result.

While I give this author credit for not falling for the broken window fallacy, the money to build the first death star and much of the second had already been removed from the economy before the rebels blew it up. The loss to the economy would be whatever economic benefit a fully-functional death star brings.

However, if the Empire had borrowed a lot of the money required to build the 2 death stars (and don't they always) the failure of the Empire to pay off the bonds would have almost certainly led to a Galaxy-wide banking crisis.

 

[ZiprHead]

That's okay. It's a galaxy far far away.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

While I give this author credit for not falling for the broken window fallacy, the money to build the first death star and much of the second had already been removed from the economy before the rebels blew it up. The loss to the economy would be whatever economic benefit a fully-functional death star brings.

However, if the Empire had borrowed a lot of the money required to build the 2 death stars (and don't they always) the failure of the Empire to pay off the bonds would have almost certainly led to a Galaxy-wide banking crisis.

This banking crisis is covered in the little known expanded universe novel:"The Revenge of Imperial Fiduciary Policy Regulators". Surprisingly it was only popular with fans of Imperial Russian "Easterns" which tell of the hero bureaucrats that save the empire from corruption. (The genre Ayn Rand stole her story lines from.) It is a fascinating read for those who have read everything possible in all languages twice.




ETA: Yes I am sure somebody has actually calculated the costs and impact on the fictional economy.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In terms of saving lives, the destruction of the two Death Stars was justifiable. But the lack of a plan to deal with the ineviatble economic fallout was inexcusable. You can't just obliterate accumulated interplanetary wealth like that and not get Hoovervilles and riots as a result.

While I give this author credit for not falling for the broken window fallacy, the money to build the first death star and much of the second had already been removed from the economy before the rebels blew it up. The loss to the economy would be whatever economic benefit a fully-functional death star brings.

However, if the Empire had borrowed a lot of the money required to build the 2 death stars (and don't they always) the failure of the Empire to pay off the bonds would have almost certainly led to a Galaxy-wide banking crisis.

The Emperor was a Sith Lord. The banks weren't going to get their money back anyways because he was planning on screwing them over for the sake of evil. They wrote down those amounts as losses as soon as they handed the cash over.

 

[credoconsolans]

Every single one of those storm troopers could have walked away when they landed on the planet. Who was going to stop them?

In order of importance:
1) This guy:

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

2) Captain Phasma

I suppose she's a slave too?

3) Every storm trooper who HASN'T decided to walk away.

What slave wouldn't?

4) The 2km long battleship in orbit with enough firepower to glass the entire planet if they don't like the way things are going

The slaves came down in a spaceship of their own and can just take off.

5) The First Order officers and crew who are specifically trained to prevent exactly that sort of thing from happening.

Aren't they all slaves too, according to you?

Be advised that you have now placed yourself in the position of arguing that slavery is impossible because the slaves would just revolt and walk away. I shouldn't have to explain to you what's wrong with that idea (and slaves throughout history didn't even have a sword-wielding maniac with cosmic powers looking over their shoulders).

Slavery would be impossible if all the slaves rebelled at the same time.

Slaveowners were constantly afraid of slave rebellions. History tells you that.

Slaveowners had more slaves than they had people to police them.

I forgot what society had this saying, "You have as many enemies as you have slaves"

Slave owners made it their job to keep resentful slaves isolated (or you get Spartacus), scared of physical punishment or starvation (by brainwashing child slaves or enforcing obedience and punishing retribution with immediate brutal punishment), and by making slavery more beneficial than being a free poor person in a social-services-absent society (ancient almost anywhere).

This is why these days, especially in places like the West, people who are imprisoned illegally and forced to be slaves don't want to stay slaves and do almost anything to escape.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In terms of saving lives, the destruction of the two Death Stars was justifiable. But the lack of a plan to deal with the ineviatble economic fallout was inexcusable. You can't just obliterate accumulated interplanetary wealth like that and not get Hoovervilles and riots as a result.

Destroying the Death Stars caused virtually no economic fallout. The only effects were the loss of the jobs of the people working on them--and soldiers tend to be young and single--if both the soldier and their job disappears in a proton torpedo shot the only effect is the tiny loss of GNP--given the size of the Empire this is too small to measure.

Now, building the Death Stars might have caused economic issues as vast sums were being redirected from productive endeavors to a massive terror weapon.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

While she wasn't trained in the light saber I think it's pretty obvious she was used to combat. Light sabers are basically swords--if you know how to fight with a sword you'll do a reasonable job fighting with a lightsaber.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

There are a number of factors here:
(1) He was injured seriously already from the blast that came from Chewbacca. That is why he kept hitting his side with his fist from the pain in mid-fight.
(2) His training was never completed.
(3) She is quite dexterous from a tough life of scavenging and is already experienced with weapons. The opening scenes and initial part of the movie should have made that clear.
(4) He had a lot of curiosity about her and perhaps it was in the back of his mind to take her alive. Even when he was ahead he didn't use the side laser against her but instead offered to be her teacher.

 

[beero1000]

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

There are a number of factors here:
(1) He was injured seriously already from the blast that came from Chewbacca. That is why he kept hitting his side with his fist from the pain in mid-fight.
(2) His training was never completed.
(3) She is quite dexterous from a tough life of scavenging and is already experienced with weapons. The opening scenes and initial part of the movie should have made that clear.
(4) He had a lot of curiosity about her and perhaps it was in the back of his mind to take her alive. Even when he was ahead he didn't use the side laser against her but instead offered to be her teacher.

They did spend a non-trivial portion of the movie hyping up how badass Chewie's bowcaster is - it wrecks multiple stormtroopers in a single shot, etc. Kylo lost, but that was after he took a direct hit, chased them down and held his own in a 2 on 1 fight for a while. They also spent some time on his wavering from the dark side due to his 'weakness' and he did all that while dealing with the fact that he'd just killed his father. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[credoconsolans]

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

While she wasn't trained in the light saber I think it's pretty obvious she was used to combat. Light sabers are basically swords--if you know how to fight with a sword you'll do a reasonable job fighting with a lightsaber.

She was used to fighting with a stick. A pole. She whacked people and punched them.

Do a 'reasonable job' with a lightsaber? That's like saying you can pick up a samurai sword and be ready to challenge a ronin because you know how to swing the sharp end at them.

Another reason this movie sucked. The prequels established that it takes Jedi a lifetime of practice to make the sword an extension of their bodies and to wield it so that they're all but unstoppable. Rey showed us that all it takes is 5 minutes and you can fight off a guy who's been training for years.

As I recall from the movie, he got his ass handed to him by an untrained girl who picked up a lightsaber about 5 minutes before they fought.

There are a number of factors here:
(1) He was injured seriously already from the blast that came from Chewbacca. That is why he kept hitting his side with his fist from the pain in mid-fight.

And Yoda is 800 years old and walks with a cane.

(2) His training was never completed.

How much did he have? A weekend? Zett Jukassa was 10 years old and he wiped out several stormtroopers before he was cut down (scene in Revenge of the Sith when Bail Organa goes to the Temple to see what's going on and witnesses his death).

(3) She is quite dexterous from a tough life of scavenging and is already experienced with weapons. The opening scenes and initial part of the movie should have made that clear.

She was good with a stick and street brawling. How that gives her the skills for advanced sword fighting, I don't know.

(4) He had a lot of curiosity about her and perhaps it was in the back of his mind to take her alive. Even when he was ahead he didn't use the side laser against her but instead offered to be her teacher.

So he was 'holding back'? LOL. Same excuse people used when Mace Windu beat Sidious in a saber fight. Oh, the critics say, Sidious was just playing possum, waiting for Anakin to show up, he wasn't really trying... Yeah, that's why he was acting so good he let himself be disarmed and kicked in the face. LOL

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And most of the sailors on a warshuip are just dudes who need a paycheck. If that warship is going around levelling cities, however, there's a moral obligation for people to respond and take down the warship. The Death Star had just destroyed Alderran and killed countless millions of innocent people and was on track to do the same sort of thing again. The collateral damage to the innocent worker bees on the ship was an acceptable loss.

Now, you do have a point about a lack of a plan by the Rebel Alliance. The galaxy is filled with countless tribes that have longstanding historical conflicts with each other and they've only been kept from each others' throats due to the presence of a strongman central government, first run by the Jedi and then by the Emperor, and when those strongmen were removed, everyone just started up with their old wars.

In terms of saving lives, the destruction of the two Death Stars was justifiable. But the lack of a plan to deal with the ineviatble economic fallout was inexcusable. You can't just obliterate accumulated interplanetary wealth like that and not get Hoovervilles and riots as a result.

Now that's just plain silly... DESTROYING the Death Star wouldn't have had that effect any more directly than constructing them in the first place. Considering the battle station's entire reason to exist is to destroy entire planets, the only thing that could possibly result from NOT destroying it is several billion deaths the first (second?) time the Empire decided to use it at full strength. The best case scenario is they never use it at all, which is no different from it ceasing to exist altogether.

Although, in fairness, the Banking Clans probably would have been reluctant to try and collect on that debt when the Empire could just as easily destroy their entire planet in revenge.