The Four Freedoms

[bilby]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

What the fuck is so great about having to try? As far as I can see, the people who don't have to try at all, and just get anything they want handed to them on a plate, are pretty happy with the whole deal.

If there is no try there is little around to be handed to the people--the system falls apart.

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I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

how is freedom from want equal to little reason to try? Million dollar athletes with more money than god don't stop winning games. Dr Dre us officially a billionaire, he is still producing music. Doctors, lawyers, bankers, inventors, all can and many do become millionaires and continue to work well past 65.

What about the long term unemployed who have tried and failed and now have given up looking for work? How about the people who decome so depressed by failure that they kill themselves? Seems like failing over and over again leads to little reason to try.

Some people are motivated by things beyond money. Most, however, if they have no unfilled wants are not going to work.

Citation needed.

I call bullshit on this assertion, until you produce a shred of evidence for it.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Freedom from want is not freedom from desire, not freedom from drive.

(I think all reading this know that, but I will state it before we go down various rabbit holes)


Freedom from fear does not mean that fear is eradicated, but faced and worked through.

if we forever keep fear and want, what need have we to speak? What god must we worship (for as long as we are enslaved to fear, we will worship something, we may not call it god, but we will worship something)?

Desire is what you want.

I keep forgetting. Nuance and subtlety of thought are not necessarily your strong suits. I apologize.

a want would be food, clothing, shelter, love
A desire would be a half smoke from Ben's Chili Bowl up on Euclid, a pair of JC pumps, a seaside condo in California, and Idris Elba (not that I want to love him, another four letter word will do.)

now you know what I mean.

Maybe.

If it's too complicated for you, do let me know.

 

[bilby]

In the geopolitical context of the time, I suspect that FDR's "freedom from fear" was more about not having to fear the Gestapo knocking on your door in the middle of the night and dragging you away to an unknown fate; or having to fear that the neighbouring country's tanks might be rolling down the high street tomorrow, bringing such a regime in their wake, than it was about making sure you never encountered a spider in your bath.

Freedom from fear in that context would mean governments respecting habeus corpus, and the constitutional protections against unlawful arrest and unlawful search; the right not to be detained without trial, etc.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In the geopolitical context of the time, I suspect that FDR's "freedom from fear" was more about not having to fear the Gestapo knocking on your door in the middle of the night and dragging you away to an unknown fate; or having to fear that the neighbouring country's tanks might be rolling down the high street tomorrow, bringing such a regime in their wake, than it was about making sure you never encountered a spider in your bath.

Freedom from fear in that context would mean governments respecting habeus corpus, and the constitutional protections against unlawful arrest and unlawful search; the right not to be detained without trial, etc.

In that context I have no problem with it.

 

[Toni]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

 

[laughing dog]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

Want may be a consequence of failure but it is not a necessary one,so your first objection is based on a false premise.

Your second objection is also based on a false premise. 1st, a primary motivation for trying something is the promise of some sort of benefit or gain. 2nd, the risk of possible "want" may deter trying.

 

[bigfield]

delete

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

 

[Sabine Grant]

"freedom from fear" while applied to the US today strikes me as an effort from the government to motivate intellectual integrity, the use of critical skills, to deter intellectual laziness. So that the masses exposed to the toxic garbage dumped on them by a sensationalism- avid media may be equipped with the necessary incentive to not give in to paranoia. Fear has been the ultimate tool for manipulating the psyche and emotions of so many Americans. In fact, there are several government and regimes in the history of mankind who are equally guilty of having obtained a public consensus on one action or legislation or the other by inducing fear of....

What Americans should have received from the GWB Administration and their Congress is intellectual integrity rather than mantras formulated to induce fear regarding Irak and the so called WMDs and threats to US National Security. What we saw is a nation reacting to what their Government hammered into their minds. A hammering designed to rationalize and justify a military intervention in Irak, relying on the fear-inducing factor.

 

[Unbeatable]

What is this thread about? I thought it was about a speech by FDR and the specific concepts referred to therein, not merely the phrases he happened to use to refer to those concepts, stripped of their context. But it seems I was incorrect. If so, then the answer to all of the OP's questions is "yes and no", because divorced from one particular context, there are any number of potential interpretations of the relevant phrases. Whether "freedom from fear/want" are relevant/attainable/worth fighting for will vary depending upon which interpretation a given poster projects upon the phrase. No reasonable arguments can be had on the subject between people who are not using the same definitions.

 

[bilby]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

Citation needed.

 

[Frikki]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

Freedom from want gives you more opportunities to try. I live in a country where I could go into business with a few friends back in the day because we knew that if we failed we would still have health care, schooling for our kids, roofs over our heads and we would not go hungry. Our freedom from want is an engine that drives innovation and risk taking. How many Americans are stuck in useless jobs because they can´t lose health insurance?

 

[Unbeatable]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

I don't know if bilby is joking, but I'm not-- please, can you post a citation for this claim?

 

[Toni]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

Really? If I were assured of success, I would be at the nearest convenience store the moment it opened to purchase a Powerball ticket --or several in case anyone else had this magical ability to succeed at any endeavor. I would love to take up rock climbing in a serious way but fear of failure, AKA 'death' keeps me grounded in safer pursuits. Fear of (absolute and certain) failure has made my music career a complete nonstarter. No amount of effort would overcome my utter and complete lack of talent. But if I knew I could be successful I would be quite willing and even eager to invest in lessons, followed by auditions, etc.

I don't think I'm especially unusual.

 

[bilby]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

I don't know if bilby is joking, but I'm not-- please, can you post a citation for this claim?

I can assure you, I am not joking. Loren has a history of making bald assertions like this, as though they were universally accepted truths, and then failing to provide one iota of evidence to support them.

 

[RavenSky]

If there is no try there is little around to be handed to the people--the system falls apart...
Some people are motivated by things beyond money. Most, however, if they have no unfilled wants are not going to work.

Yes, we know... There's John Galt, and then there's "most" who are moochers. Ayn Rand would be so proud.

 

[RavenSky]

Citation needed.

I call bullshit on this assertion, until you produce a shred of evidence for it.

"Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, pgs 2-657

 

[RavenSky]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

If you cannot fail, there is every reason to try. It is the impossibility of success that discourages effort.

No. It's avoiding failure that drives most people.

You state that as if you have some factual citation to back you up, yet I see none provided.

I've been to more than a few "motivational" and leadership seminars and training workshops in my 30+ year career to know that "avoiding failure" is only one kind of motivational factor, and is not what "drives most people." It can drive some people; others are driven by competition with co-workers, some by beating their personal bests, some by awards/recognition, some by personal desires...

Interestingly, as several people here have already pointed out, fear of failure is actually what demotivates "most people."

 

[ksen]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

Yes, I'd imagine it'd be horrible to have to live without the fear of starvation or homelessness hanging over your head.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I'd be pretty scared of a government that tried to give me "freedom from fear".

I would also be afraid of a government that tried to give freedom from want.

If you can't fail there's little reason to try.

Yes, I'd imagine it'd be horrible to have to live without the fear of starvation or homelessness hanging over your head.

Which was a big fear during the Great Depression.