The Looming Threat of European Terror Babies.

[Jayjay]

Many Subways and KFCs in UK where Muslims are a large minority like Bristol have been switching to being all halal. That is in effect forcing all their customers, majority of whom are not Muslim, to conform to their dietary restrictions and religious rituals (all halal meat is in effect a religious sacrifice to Allah).

Wow.

Halal meat is simply slaughtered differently than regular meat. You wouldn't know you are eating halal meat unless someone told you. Those Subways still offer pork, etc.... So, you really need to explain how any customer is being actually harmed.

Halal Subways in UK do not offer pork or bacon. I guess because that would contaminate the Allah-blessed meats and break the magic spell. So it does in fact remove certain options from customers, which is a real harm.

On the other hand, there are plenty more non-Halal subways in UK where bacon-lovers can go to if they really can't live without it. They just have to get it from a few blocks away, and inconvenience for sure but not insurmountable.

 

[Derec]

You do realize that it is not ALL Subway or KFC restaurants, right?

Not all, but many. And the number will increase as Muslim population increases due to a combination between foolish mass immigration policies and huge birth rates of Muslims.

The Subway downstairs still serves ham.

Well since this is about situation in UK I don't doubt that.

These "mainstream" restaurants are independently owned franchises, and their menus do vary depending on location and owner preference. Ever their prices can be different for the same items.

Preference or fear of being bombed if they do not appease the Muslims? UK, a nation of little Neville Chamberlains.

For instance, did you know that Burger Kings in Israel were kosher? (BK is no longer in Israel, but just THINK of all of the non-Jewish people in Israel that were FORCED to eat kosher burgers while they were there).

Maybe that's why they failed. Even Israelis wanted a break from kosher in an American chain.
And remember that Israel is a Jewish country. UK is (not yet) an Islamic country, although it might be soon if EU maintains their policy of importing millions of Muslims every year.

 

[RavenSky]

Not all, but many.

How many? Give me a number with a citation to back it up

And the number will increase as Muslim population increases due to a combination between foolish mass immigration policies and huge birth rates of Muslims.

Your biased hair-on-fire opinion only

These "mainstream" restaurants are independently owned franchises, and their menus do vary depending on location and owner preference. Ever their prices can be different for the same items.

Preference or fear of being bombed if they do not appease the Muslims? UK, a nation of little Neville Chamberlains.

And for the third or fourth time, have you interviewed the owners of these restaurants? Do you actually know why they revised their menus? Do you have evidence that any of them were threatened with bombs?

Or it this just more of your hair-on-fire paranoia?

Interesting that you completely cut out this part of my post:

In Canada, they serve poutine gravy and vinegar with their fries, and peri-peri sauce in the UK. In markets with high Asian populations, BK uses dark meat chicken instead of the white meat prefered by other markets.

It rather fucked with your scare-mongering narrative, didn't it?

 

[ZiprHead]

What is Halal Meat?

Halal is an Arabic word that means "permissible." In terms of food, it means food that is permissible according to Islamic law. For a meat to be certified "halal," it cannot be a forbidden cut (such as meat from hindquarters) or animal (such as pork.)

The slaughter of a halal animal is called "zabihah" and there are certain guidelines to follow:
•Allah's (God's) name must be pronounced during slaughter.
•The instrument must be very sharp to ensure humane slaughter. The animal must be slit at the throat.
•The animal must not be unconscious
•The animal must be hung upside down and allowed to bleed dry. Eating blood is not halal.
•These steps must be accomplished by a Muslim or the People of the Book (Christian or Jew.) Many observant Muslims find kosher meat acceptable.
•The animal must have been fed a natural diet that did not contain animal by-products.

http://www.thekitchn.com/good-question-what-is-halal-me-60979

That makes the halal meats a religious sacrifice to Allah.

No.

Muslims engaged in the Hajj (pilgrimage) are obligated to sacrifice a lamb or a goat or join others in sacrificing a cow or a camel during the celebration of the Eid al-Adha.[5][6] Other Muslims not on the Hajj to Mecca are also encouraged to participate in this sacrifice to share in the sanctity of the occasion. It is understood as a symbolic re-enactment of Abraham's sacrifice of a ram in place of his son, a narrative present throughout Abrahamism. Meat from this occasion is divided into three parts:
For personal nourishment
For distribution among friends, family, and neighbors, and
as charity for the indigent

Other occasions where the lamb is sacrificed include the celebration of the birth of a child, reaching the final stages of building a house, the acquisition of a valuable commodity, and even the visit of a dear or honourable guest. For Muslims, the sacrifice of lamb was and is associated with celebrations, feasts, generosity, and the seeking of blessings. Most schools of fiqh hold the animal must be killed according to the prohibitions of halal sacrifice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sacrifice#Islam

 

[Derec]

Your biased hair-on-fire opinion only

Which part? That Muslim population will increase or that their demands will increase as their population does? How long until they demand pubs no longer serve alcohol? Or that women have to dress more modestly?

Do you have evidence that any of them were threatened with bombs?

Interesting that you completely cut out this part of my post:

In Canada, they serve poutine gravy and vinegar with their fries, and peri-peri sauce in the UK. In markets with high Asian populations, BK uses dark meat chicken instead of the white meat prefered by other markets.

It rather fucked with your scare-mongering narrative, didn't it?

Not at all. I removed it because it wasn't relevant. None of your examples was about a minority pressuring a businesses to remove certain products because it offends them on religious grounds.

Take poutine. It would be like Canadian establishments being pressured to remove poutine gravy from their menues because a few percent of their population is religiously opposed to poutine.
You could make the same analogy with other things. Should chicken places in Asia abandon dark meat because a few percent opposed dark meat on religious grounds? I can see them offering white meat to accommodate those who have that preference but this "removing product because it religiously offends a few percent" happens only with Muslims as far as I know.

 

[ZiprHead]

Adding: There are Kosher Subways in the US.

 

[RavenSky]

Which part? That Muslim population will increase or that their demands will increase as their population does? How long until they demand pubs no longer serve alcohol? Or that women have to dress more modestly?

So you have added foretelling the future along with mind-reading. I expect your accuracy rate will be on par with all the other fortune-tellers

Do you have evidence that any of them were threatened with bombs?

How does a random photo answer my question? Do you, or do you not, have any evidence that any of the owners of the Subway shops with revised menus were threatened with bombs?

Interesting that you completely cut out this part of my post:

In Canada, they serve poutine gravy and vinegar with their fries, and peri-peri sauce in the UK. In markets with high Asian populations, BK uses dark meat chicken instead of the white meat prefered by other markets.

It rather fucked with your scare-mongering narrative, didn't it?

Not at all. I removed it because it wasn't relevant. None of your examples was about a minority pressuring a businesses to remove certain products because it offends them on religious grounds.

you are shifting goal posts. The point is that even chain restaurants revise menus in various stores across the world to cater to the specific customer base of each location. Be it for religious reasons or cultural reasons or just regional differences in tastes, menus are altered to suit the region in order to maximize profits.

You have failed utterly failed to show how these Subways (how many are there?) are in any way different from the UK BK serving peri-peri sauce because their customer base wants it.

 

[RavenSky]

Adding: There are Kosher Subways in the US.

There is one right here in Miami.

OMG!!!! I'm being FORCED to eat kosher food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh wait... no I'm not.

 

[scombrid]

But that is not all, as pork is not allowed under halal. If an establishment goes halal only they can no longer serve pork.

Then go eat somewhere else if you want pork.

No they don't. It's halal only. Not halal in addition to regular, which would be fine. That is my whole point - that Muslims do not merely want their preferred options added. No, they want their preferred option to be the only one available.

Franchise owner might be an observant Muslim. In which case he isn't caving to a minority. He is then a minority and he's figuring that he can make a good lick selling to a particular market.

Even if the franchise owner isn't Muslim, his catering to the tastes of the neighborhood hardly foretells looming sharia doom.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

It would be like the Catholic Church demanding that Subway or KFC not serve any non-fish meat during Lent. Except that giving special privileges to the Catholics is not PC, but giving special privileges to Islam is.

You do know the story of McDonald's Filet O'Fish?

Because it is VERY relevant to this conversation.

 

[scombrid]

Oh the terror. I just found a Halal Chinese restaurant in south Florida. A Chinese restaurant with no pork. The horror.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Oh the terror. I just found a Halal Chinese restaurant in south Florida. A Chinese restaurant with no pork. The horror.

Sharia law has landed in America.

 

[bilby]

actually no one says that, but you go right ahead creating your cute little strawmen [pats Derec on the head]

Actually, bilby says that, but you go right ahead projecting your own cute little rhetorical tactics into your opponents.

Actually, bilby doesn't say that.

 

[bilby]

Do you have something against restaurants voluntarily meeting the needs of their customers?

They are submitting to demands of a radical minority that forces all their customers to eat meat sacrificed to Allah.

You do realize, I hope, that as their Allah is a fictional character, the consumption of meat sacrificed to him is indistinguishable in its effects on the consumer from the consumption of meat not so prepared?

That Halal food is completely harmless to non-Muslims, just as non-Halal food is harmless to Muslims - because the basis of the Halal rules is a work of fiction?

Or do you imagine that if you were required to eat food prepared by Jedi knights you would risk having your planet incinerated by an Imperial Death Star?

Perhaps you are horrified at the rise in sales of Organic produce, which is a similarly pointless, belief based, dietary regime, with no real world impact on the consumer? Could you perhaps direct me to your thread in which you express your disgust at not being able to buy GM produce at WholeFoods, who are thereby FORCING their customers to eat food that conforms with their belief system?

Or do you just choose to shop elsewhere, and let the idiots who demand Halal or Organic or Kosher food exercise their freedom to do so?

 

[Bomb#20]

Unfortunately too many people think like:
- we must take all third world immigrants who want to come to US/Europe no matter how many or who they are! If you disagree you are xenophobe and a racist!

actually no one says that, but you go right ahead creating your cute little strawmen [pats Derec on the head]

Actually, bilby says that, but you go right ahead projecting your own cute little rhetorical tactics into your opponents.

Actually, bilby doesn't say that.

You don't? Then by all means clarify what you do say. Because in this post you appear to be implying that it's immoral to have a stricter standard for who can become a citizen of the EU by immigration than by being born there and it's morally obligatory to have the rule for who can immigrate to the EU be decided not by vote of EU citizens but by worldwide vote. If you can see a hair's breadth of substantive difference between that position and "Europeans must take all third world immigrants who want to come to Europe no matter how many or who they are", please point it out.

Likewise, in in this post you appear to be implying that the subset of the British public who disagree with taking all third world immigrants who want to come to Britain are racists or religious bigots. If that's not what you meant to imply about them, please explain what it was you did mean to imply about them.

 

[RavenSky]

It would be like the Catholic Church demanding that Subway or KFC not serve any non-fish meat during Lent. Except that giving special privileges to the Catholics is not PC, but giving special privileges to Islam is.

You do know the story of McDonald's Filet O'Fish?

Because it is VERY relevant to this conversation.

CRJQ Excellent point

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, bilby says that, but you go right ahead projecting your own cute little rhetorical tactics into your opponents.

Actually, bilby doesn't say that.

 

[Bomb#20]

It would be like the Catholic Church demanding that Subway or KFC not serve any non-fish meat during Lent. Except that giving special privileges to the Catholics is not PC, but giving special privileges to Islam is.

You do know the story of McDonald's Filet O'Fish?

Because it is VERY relevant to this conversation.

Which part of the story is very relevant? The part where McDonald's refused to sell people Big Macs on Fridays?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You do know the story of McDonald's Filet O'Fish?

Because it is VERY relevant to this conversation.

Which part of the story is very relevant? The part where McDonald's refused to sell people Big Macs on Fridays?

Nope. Same thing that Subway has done.

 

[Jayjay]

Which part of the story is very relevant? The part where McDonald's refused to sell people Big Macs on Fridays?

Nope. Same thing that Subway has done.

I think you have to be more specific than that. The Wikipedia page on Filet O'Fish doesn't say anything except that it's popular with people with dietary restrictions, and there is a non-sourced claim that it's not kosher due to being prepared in a non-kosher kitchen. In case of Subway halal restaurants, all non-Halal meats are removed, which doesn't seem to be the case with McDonald's.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Nope. Same thing that Subway has done.

I think you have to be more specific than that. The Wikipedia page on Filet O'Fish doesn't say anything except that it's popular with people with dietary restrictions, and there is a non-sourced claim that it's not kosher due to being prepared in a non-kosher kitchen. In case of Subway halal restaurants, all non-Halal meats are removed, which doesn't seem to be the case with McDonald's.

Ray Kroc was frustrated with dismal sales in Catholic neighborhoods on Friday nights and during Lent. He tried all sorts of advertising to get the Catholics to eat at McDonalds and give up fish on Fridays. It was only when one owner introduced a fish sandwich (caving to Catholics) did sales improve. It was about the same time Catholic terrorism in Britain spiked.