The Marjorie Taylor Greene case

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A Raid by Nancy Pelosi’s Gazpacho Police

 

[Keith&Co.]

True, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that she just tripped over the pronunciation of a word that she wasn't too familiar with.

Part of my work is public speaking. If i am not familiar with a word, i think it's my job is making sure i know how to pronounce it.
.
Part of my job is making sure coworkers know that the proper pronunciation for the Hydraulic Security Alarm Panel's acronym, HSAP, is 'hasp' not 'aich-sap.' One's standard in the Fleet, one's a mistake that makes you look like an idiot.

It's not that hard to practice a speech, presentation, lecture before a beta tester just to make sure there's no stupid coming out of the mouth. Or even just a mirror, sometimes.

And public speaking is pretty much entirely MTG's job. However she got to the point of saying Soup instead of Fascists, she's entirely responsible for that.

 

[Copernicus]

Part of my job is making sure coworkers know that the proper pronunciation for the Hydraulic Security Alarm Panel's acronym, HSAP, is 'hasp' not 'aich-sap.' One's standard in the Fleet, one's a mistake that makes you look like an idiot.

I understand. I worked on language issues at Boeing for a quarter of a century as one of my specializations, but mainly in the area writing standards. My point here is that she probably was coached to say "ge-shtah-po" instead of the more English-sounding "ge-stah-po". Normally, English speakers simply avoid initial "shp", "sht", and "shk" clusters by replacing them with "sp", "st", and "sk". I'm pretty sure that even MTG has heard the word "Gestapo" before, since it is in so much English media, but there are people who think that it ought to be pronounced the German way. And I admit that I do that myself, given my focus on foreign languages. The problem here is that she started out trying to pronounce something that is mildly difficult (or uncomfortable) for native English speakers. She isn't someone you would expect to be high on foreign pronunciations.

So the way I see it is that her brain warned her to prepare herself for an incoming articulatory challenge. Then everything went haywire. She had to get the palatal sibilant "sh" sound next to a "t" sound, and English "ch" does that. Only the "sh" is on the wrong side of the "t", but she didn't have time to notice that, since her natural English-dominant preference is to say "st" instead of "sht". So her brain came up with "sp", a reasonably close equivalent to "st". After all, she remembered that there was a "p" in the damned foreign word. And then, with a little help from Professor Spooner, her brain put it all together and came up with the perfect solution--"gaspacho"! Who knows if she ever heard of that soup before? It could be Mexican or something, right? No, it was so unfair. She deserved at least a bronze medal in articulatory gymnastics. I wonder what she would come up with if she had to pronounce other foreign-sounding words.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I wonder what she would come up with if she had to pronounce other foreign-sounding words.

I'd rather ask her if she noticed the Arabic numbers someone slipped into the last budget.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Part of my job is making sure coworkers know that the proper pronunciation for the Hydraulic Security Alarm Panel's acronym, HSAP, is 'hasp' not 'aich-sap.' One's standard in the Fleet, one's a mistake that makes you look like an idiot.

I understand. I worked on language issues at Boeing for a quarter of a century as one of my specializations, but mainly in the area writing standards. My point here is that she probably was coached to say "ge-shtah-po" instead of the more English-sounding "ge-stah-po". Normally, English speakers simply avoid initial "shp", "sht", and "shk" clusters by replacing them with "sp", "st", and "sk". I'm pretty sure that even MTG has heard the word "Gestapo" before, since it is in so much English media, but there are people who think that it ought to be pronounced the German way. And I admit that I do that myself, given my focus on foreign languages. The problem here is that she started out trying to pronounce something that is mildly difficult (or uncomfortable) for native English speakers. She isn't someone you would expect to be high on foreign pronunciations.

So the way I see it is that her brain warned her to prepare herself for an incoming articulatory challenge. Then everything went haywire. She had to get the palatal sibilant "sh" sound next to a "t" sound, and English "ch" does that. Only the "sh" is on the wrong side of the "t", but she didn't have time to notice that, since her natural English-dominant preference is to say "st" instead of "sht". So her brain came up with "sp", a reasonably close equivalent to "st". After all, she remembered that there was a "p" in the damned foreign word. And then, with a little help from Professor Spooner, her brain put it all together and came up with the perfect solution--"gaspacho"! Who knows if she ever heard of that soup before? It could be Mexican or something, right? No, it was so unfair. She deserved at least a bronze medal in articulatory gymnastics. I wonder what she would come up with if she had to pronounce other foreign-sounding words.

My German is very rusty and so I am not 100% confident how standard that pronunciation as gesht* is as opposed to gest*. My recollection was something like at the beginning of word it is especially true that st--> sht and sp-->shp etc, but it is much less common in middle of the word, mostly confined to compound words or sometimes where there is a root word of that form. I guess there's a difference by dialect, though, too, and so some dialect of German might pronounce it as geshtapo.

I guess it doesn't matter what kinds of sounds she was swapping around in the word and why, the exact nature of her brain fart. It's also a bit of a distraction for us and to poke fun of her because she really does deserve it. And the reason for that has much more to do with the content of her meaning in the full statement. Referencing the government as the Gestapo and the insurrectionists as victims... That type of behavior by her and the Reich wing is exactly the kind of thing that happens in a coup. The Right will keep screaming how they are victims in order to try to gain momentum and they'll do things like refuse to take part in the government or vote and then say "see?" Laughing her off the stage could conceivably work as a counter tactic but I have to keep my fingers crossed on that one.

 

[jab]

At first I was wondering if this was some kind of auto-correct error that was missed.... but no, she actually said it. Was she mindlessly reading off a tele-prompter?!? How on earth can you mix up the two when speaking?? Was she thinking of her lunch while spewing the talking points?

I think she's truly that stupid. She doesn't know how to pronounce Gestapo and came up with Gazpacho, which, by accident, is an actual word.

It's an interesting speech defect that is similar to a  spoonerism. Spoonerisms involve a transposition of speech sounds (phonemes), usually across different words, e.g. "Yuck Foo" for "fuck you". This looks like a word-internal spoonerism.

I suspect that Greene had planned to use the word "Gestapo", pronounced gesh-TAH-po". Perhaps she got it from a speech writer, who was attempting to link Pelosi to Nazis ( Godwin's law strikes again!). However, she could recall only the first syllable correctly: "gesh". What is interesting is that the "sh" sound apparently caused the following "t" to undergo a common assimilation to a "ch" sound. If you then apply the spoonerism rule to the two final syllables, it comes out "gesh-PAH-cho". That palatal assimilation is very interesting linguistically. I'd never heard that in a spoonerism before. Anyway, Greene's lack of knowledge of WWII and Nazi Germany probably also played a role in the confusion.

the term is malapropism

 

[jab]

Some responses from Twitter...

Although some say they have a wonton disregard for safety.

Especially their controversial “stop and bisque” program.

Yes, but they always arrest on souped-up charges.

she meant the illegal Hispanic police the Dems are smuggling across the unwalled border

 

[jab]

Or, judging from her body of work she could just be a moron.

True, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that she just tripped over the pronunciation of a word that she wasn't too familiar with. I think somebody coached her to pronounce Gestapo with a "sht" instead of a "st", because a lot of German words begin with that cluster. English simply doesn't like that at the beginning of a syllable. Usually, only foreign words begin with "sht", "shp", and "shk". Even a moron can have trouble with strange pronunciations.

Interesting that she was more familiar will "Gulag" than "Gestapo"--suggesting she's got her anti-commie shtick down more thoroughly and sincerely than her antifascist shtick

 

[Elixir]

 

[Ford]

True, but that doesn't exclude the possibility that she just tripped over the pronunciation of a word that she wasn't too familiar with.

Part of my work is public speaking. If i am not familiar with a word, i think it's my job is making sure i know how to pronounce it.
.
Part of my job is making sure coworkers know that the proper pronunciation for the Hydraulic Security Alarm Panel's acronym, HSAP, is 'hasp' not 'aich-sap.' One's standard in the Fleet, one's a mistake that makes you look like an idiot.

It's not that hard to practice a speech, presentation, lecture before a beta tester just to make sure there's no stupid coming out of the mouth. Or even just a mirror, sometimes.

And public speaking is pretty much entirely MTG's job. However she got to the point of saying Soup instead of Fascists, she's entirely responsible for that.

Yep. I also did some public speaking as an emcee, a bit of stand up comedy, decades of live radio, and reading commercial scripts. Did I make mistakes? You bet. In the case of recorded stuff, I would - like you - find out how to pronounce something first. Learn how to say the band or performer's name before getting up in front of a crowd to introduce them. If I fumbled a joke on stage or a bit live on the air, I'd turn the gaffe into a joke right then and there. You have to have awareness of what's coming out of your mouth, and enough self-awareness to admit when you goofed.

Well she finally did...kind of...the text of the tweet:

Some of us slip up a word every now and then, but Joe Biden doesn’t even know the words coming out of his mouth practically all the time.

The good news is that the people know the difference.

So in the famous words of some one I hold dear.. Covfefe!

It took her two whole days to come up with that and post it to her official Twitter account. Everyone slips up, but when Biden does it he's destroying the country, and also slipping up makes you presidential material (unless you're that Biden guy).

It's one thing to say something dumb, Marge. It's quite another to take a weekend to think about it and then confirm you really are that stupid.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, we all make mistakes, but if Biden makes mistakes he's senile.
Tracks.

 

[ZiprHead]

Don't worry. She's just appealing to her bouillabaisse.


I'll close the door on my way out.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[lpetrich]

That's switched captions, because MTG has a sticking-out chin and the Neanderthal woman doesn't. Scientists Explain Why Modern Humans Have Chins | Sci-News.com

I'm sometimes very embarrassed to have fellow members of my species like MTG.

BTW, I remember being sent a purported picture of a baby Sasquatch. I noticed the chin and decided that it was a fake that used a picture of a human child.

 

[Hermit]

[...] My point here is that she probably was coached to say "ge-shtah-po" instead of the more English-sounding "ge-stah-po". Normally, English speakers simply avoid initial "shp", "sht", and "shk" clusters by replacing them with "sp", "st", and "sk". I'm pretty sure that even MTG has heard the word "Gestapo" before, since it is in so much English media, but there are people who think that it ought to be pronounced the German way. And I admit that I do that myself, given my focus on foreign languages. The problem here is that she started out trying to pronounce something that is mildly difficult (or uncomfortable) for native English speakers. She isn't someone you would expect to be high on foreign pronunciations.

So the way I see it is that her brain warned her to prepare herself for an incoming articulatory challenge. Then everything went haywire. She had to get the palatal sibilant "sh" sound next to a "t" sound, and English "ch" does that. Only the "sh" is on the wrong side of the "t", but she didn't have time to notice that, since her natural English-dominant preference is to say "st" instead of "sht". So her brain came up with "sp", a reasonably close equivalent to "st". After all, she remembered that there was a "p" in the damned foreign word. And then, with a little help from Professor Spooner, her brain put it all together and came up with the perfect solution--"gaspacho"! Who knows if she ever heard of that soup before? It could be Mexican or something, right? No, it was so unfair. She deserved at least a bronze medal in articulatory gymnastics. I wonder what she would come up with if she had to pronounce other foreign-sounding words.

My German is very rusty and so I am not 100% confident how standard that pronunciation as gesht* is as opposed to gest*. My recollection was something like at the beginning of word it is especially true that st--> sht and sp-->shp etc, but it is much less common in middle of the word, mostly confined to compound words or sometimes where there is a root word of that form. I guess there's a difference by dialect, though, too, and so some dialect of German might pronounce it as geshtapo.

I guess it doesn't matter what kinds of sounds she was swapping around in the word and why, the exact nature of her brain fart. It's also a bit of a distraction for us and to poke fun of her because she really does deserve it. And the reason for that has much more to do with the content of her meaning in the full statement. Referencing the government as the Gestapo and the insurrectionists as victims... That type of behavior by her and the Reich wing is exactly the kind of thing that happens in a coup. The Right will keep screaming how they are victims in order to try to gain momentum and they'll do things like refuse to take part in the government or vote and then say "see?" Laughing her off the stage could conceivably work as a counter tactic but I have to keep my fingers crossed on that one.

You are right, Don2. The German pronunciation of Gestapo involves the use of 's' rather than 'sh'. This is somewhat curious because the 'sta' stands for 'Staat' and on its own, the word is indeed pronounced with an 'sh' (except for people living in Hamburg, Bremen and elsewhere on the Waterkant).

That said, I agree with Copernicus's take on Marjorie Taylor Greene's possible though processes. She may never even have heard of a soup called Gazpacho.

 

[blastula]

Marjorie Taylor Greene speaks at white nationalist event

She's the second House Republican to associate with the group.

www.axios.com

Gosar was there too.

 

[Elixir]

No Hawley???

 

[lpetrich]

Marjorie Taylor Greene Spoke at White-Nationalist Event - an America First Political Action Conference

White nationalist Nick Fuentes:

The Georgia congresswoman’s appearance was introduced shortly after Fuentes asked for “a round of applause for Russia” and the crowd chanted “Putin, Putin” in response. In her remarks, Greene hailed the attendees as “canceled Americans” and delivered a familiar set of bromides, condemning abortion, environmentalism, Nancy Pelosi, and Justin Trudeau, while promising the crowd she was currently “working very hard for an American revival.”

Other speakers at the event made an array of racist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic remarks, culminating in Fuentes reiterating his praise for the January 6 attack on the Capitol as “awesome” and celebrating Adolf Hitler. The white nationalist said of the media: “And now they’re going on about Russia and ‘Vladimir Putin is Hitler’ — they say that’s not a good thing,” he said with a smirk.

Robert Costa on Twitter: "News: ⁦@CBSNews⁩ pressed ⁦@RepMTG⁩ on her appearance last night at a white nationalist conference
Full video: (vid link)" / Twitter
"I do not know Nick Fuentes. I never heard him speak. I’ve never seen a video. I don’t know what his views are so I’m not aligned with anything controversial"

She professed to be opposed to Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Ben Lorber on Twitter: "BREAKING: Marjorie Taylor Greene announced ..." / Twitter

BREAKING: Marjorie Taylor Greene announced as surprise speaker at white nationalist Nick Fuentes' America First Political Action Conference tonight in Orlando, FL. MTG has now joined Paul Gosar in embracing Fuentes. Fuentes claims alt-right troll Milo Yiannopoulos made it happen

Shortly before bringing up MTG, the camera showed a sizeable and raucous crowd. Fuentes praised "our secret sauce...young white men." Fuentes then solicited a round of applause for Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, and the groyper crowd chanted "Putin, Putin."

Three current GOP elected officials-- Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar in Congress, and AZ State Senator Wendy Rogers-- have now embraced the leader of the contemporary white nationalist movement in the U.S. and an explicit, unapologetic antisemite.

As the 2022 midterms heat up this year, this will undoubtedly lend Nick Fuentes' groyper movement, and their politics, greater legitimacy within a big-tent GOP that is casting about for new ideas and new frameworks to animate its future. Open white nationalism is on the table

Another mystery speaker announced tonight is hard-right Idaho Lieutenant Governor Janice McGeachin, whose current insurgent campaign for Idaho Governor against an establishment Republican has been endorsed by Trump

Earlier,
Ben Lorber on Twitter: "Looks like Idaho Lt. Gov Janice McGeachin, ..." / Twitter

Looks like Idaho Lt. Gov Janice McGeachin, currently running for Idaho Governor & endorsed by Trump, will speak at AFPAC tonight. Recently endorsed by Michelle Malkin, appeared on Stew Peters show, retweeted Wendy Rogers-- all of whom are at AFPAC too. She's right at home.

Earlier this month, McGeachin posed for a photo at a fundraiser with groyper leader and longtime white nationalist Vince James, who is also speaking at AFPAC tonight. James claimed "we have deep connections" to McGeachin.

James moved to northern Idaho in late 2021 and has eagerly embedded himself in local politics, cultivating relationships alongside other local White nationalists like groyper Dave Reilly, who narrowly lost a school board race there in November 2021

 

[lpetrich]

GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Speaks At White Nationalist Conference | HuffPost Latest News

In her speech, Greene referred to the assembled AFPAC crowd — among them prominent right-wing extremists who have been photographed giving the Nazi salute and reciting the infamous “14 words,” a white supremacist slogan — as “canceled Americans.”

“You’ve been handed the responsibility to fight for our Constitution and stand for our freedoms, and stop the Democrats who are the communist party of the United States of America,” Greene said.

She also took time to attack transgender people, claiming Democrats have destroyed “gender” and “pronouns.”

14 Words - "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

If all they want to do is protect white people, then they should not do so at the expense of everybody else in the world.

Her speech was immediately followed by a series of virulently racist and homophobic diatribes from prominent extremists.

“They want to replace you,” said Vincent James Foxx, a former propagandist for the white supremacist street-fighting club Rise Above Movement. “Western white culture is the majority culture, to which even non-whites assimilate into today — and they’re better off for it.”

Far-right podcaster Stew Peters: “Tony Fauci literally unleashed a bio weapon on the world. Why is this man running around free instead of hanging on the end of a noose somewhere?”

From the article, "Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.), who spoke at last year’s AFPAC, made an appearance via a pre-recorded video, as did Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers and Idaho Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin, both Republicans."

 

[lpetrich]

Marjorie Taylor Greene complains about being treated ‘as if I’m some kind of crazy person’ | The Independent

“It bothers me so much — they treat me as if I'm some kind of crazy person, or like I have three horns coming out of my head,” Georgia Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene said during a Sunday appearance on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s Infowars show.

Ms Greene ... added that “they” do not understand that “they're the ones that are crazy and they're the ones that are so disconnected”.

The onetime 9/11 truther ... told Jones she thinks Democrats are “really scared of the American people”.

“They know that if the American people actually woke up from the dream that they're living in the so called American dream where it's more like entertainment at like Roman games or something like that,” she added.

The article inserted some background material on MTG that I snipped for brevity.

So MTG doesn't like for people to think that she's some dangerous kook. Then she ought not to act like some dangerous kook, because that's what she's been doing.