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The objective mind

You have explained exactly NOTHING about the objective mind. Not one study you have ever provided had any understanding of the objective mind.

You don't have the slightest clue what it is.

You don't have the slightest clue how it functions.

You don't have the slightest clue what it can and cannot do.

Any claims to the opposite are total lies.

I am engaging with a liar.

So this goes on and on.
 
If anyone posts another study they need to show where in the study the objective mind is explained and how it is specifically defined.

Otherwise it is nothing but a distraction.

This is a thread saying there is no scientific understanding of the objective mind.

The only appropriate study in this thread is the one that explains the objective mind.

And again the objective mind is the specific activity that gives rise to the subjective mind.

And the only way a person can prove they know the specific activity is to show how the activity results in a subjective mind.
 
Wasn't bibly who wrote about the immediacy of mind presence. Mind is in the moment is how I like to put it. Such a state cannot, IMHO, be an objective thing. What it is reporting can be objectively taken by another though. It is a state of brain processing which is center stage in one's consciousness theater. All three terms, mind, consciousness, theater, are broad constructions relating to states we hope have meaning to others rather than being real, material, things. A state in a process is no more than a relatively instantaneous reading or awareness reported or experienced. Treating it any other way leads to dualistic construction which is clearly not physically possible.

There is no way one can find a way to cement the mind into an objective thing because it is, at best, information, something communicated. What underlies the presentation is much more complex, rich, interconnected and continuing brain activity in line with evolved brain function.

Just as I can't tell you that what I see displayed on my oscilloscope arising from activity at a single cell is what that cell 'sees' at the Superior Olive is objective demonstration of SO function. We know what is recorded is resultant from input from the ear through the cochlear nucleus and resultant also from descending input to the inferior colliculus and probably the medial geniculate and auditory cortex. We know this because we record from and or all of these sites simultaneously. We've tracked such outputs from the earliest activity there to complete appreciation or stable perception of whatever is being presented being neurally represented at SO.

The Objective mind is only a place holder for what we know and understand as well as what we tell others we experience after we've experienced it.

You ask for something that does not exist except in what you say, It is never objective since what it is of which we are aware must always be reported as subjective since it is phenomenal rather than material and objective.

Philosophers and psychological clinicians and lay persons cannot even express what they 'know' objectively since what they know is often beyond what can be communicated and always subjective in nature.
 
To say the subjective mind has no objective activity that produces it is to say the subjective mind exists by some miracle.

Either miracle or objective mind.

Take your choice.
 
No miracle. Mind is an effect. It's an awareness. We know something about such as arousal, attending and awareness. Several circuits and functions identified and characterized for them. We can empirically conclude actual relationships between ongoing neural/chemical activity in individuals resulting from onset of arousal, attending or awareness given the conditions in which the individual is emersed.

The choice is yours sir since there is no object called the mind. Mind it seems is an awareness of several attended elements brought together in an articulable subjective whole that may or may not be actually from the current state of affairs surrounding ongoing workings of the brain.
 
We assume the mind is some effect.

But effects occur because of specific objective activity. They don't just happen.

The objective mind is the specific activity that creates the effect of a mind.

If there is the effect of the subjective mind then there is the objective mind creating that effect.

We are done with that nonsense.
 
untermensche:

I did a google search for "objective mind" but didn't expect to find any matches.

Well there are some matches and this is what google quotes at the top:
http://thatdashbetween.com/objective-mind-vs-subjective-mind-influence/
Each function is characterized by it's own unique phenomena. One is the objective mind, or conscious mind. The other is the subject of mine, or the subconscious mind. The objective mind deals with objective things. Like the 5 senses.

It seems to be different to your definition.

I wonder why google quoted it though since it is a website that has pictures of crystals.

The following webpage seems to somewhat agree with you:
http://www.jamesallenlibrary.com/au...-mental-science/subjective-and-objective-mind
"...the inner mind we will call the subjective mind and the outer the objective..."
 
It's not a definition.

It is something that must exist.

Unless we say it is a miracle.

Either there is an objective reason for the subjective mind, a specific activity that produces one...

Or it is a miracle.
 
The mind is a many faceted set of awarenesses the brain produces that can be reported. It is not a thing it is many states all reportable. That doesn't make it an objective anything. The closest to objective mind that I have found I are what studied involving sense processing and awareness thereof. it is within the capacity of the brain to sort and report very specific sense values such as timbre and frequency. These are based on objectively processing acoustic signals. One who has prefect pitch can be said to possess an objective mind for pitch.
 
Conscious Awareness is broad. We are aware of sounds and directions and know what each sound means while we walk and talk or contemplate so,e idea or problem.

We watch reality while walking and are aware of movement around us and quickly react when we see a possible event coming towards us like a potential physical threat ort a speeding car. It happens unconsciously.
 
About our awareness/consciousness: (might be outdated)
original.png



working-memory.png
 
untermensche:

I did a google search for "objective mind" but didn't expect to find any matches.

Well there are some matches and this is what google quotes at the top:
http://thatdashbetween.com/objective-mind-vs-subjective-mind-influence/
Each function is characterized by it's own unique phenomena. One is the objective mind, or conscious mind. The other is the subject of mine, or the subconscious mind. The objective mind deals with objective things. Like the 5 senses.

It seems to be different to your definition.

I wonder why google quoted it though since it is a website that has pictures of crystals.

The following webpage seems to somewhat agree with you:
http://www.jamesallenlibrary.com/au...-mental-science/subjective-and-objective-mind
"...the inner mind we will call the subjective mind and the outer the objective..."


I have pointed out the distinction between objective information and subjective experience of this information in the form of conscious mind several times, only to be ignored.

Mr Untermensche prefers his own terms and conditions and will not accept anything else.
 
This is not about your hand waving and distractions.

The deluded by religion can find the clearest concepts confusing. Their religion makes them blind to many things.

The denial that there MUST be an objective mind if there is a subjective mind is a blindness.

Our subjective mind must be created in some way.

The exact way it is created is the objective mind.

Nothing could be more simple to understand.

Except to those blinded by religion.

Presently we have no clue how the subjective mind is created.

We have no understanding of the objective mind. We do not know where it is in all that activity going on in the brain.

Something in all that activity is giving rise to the subjective mind. Most likely.

That is the objective mind.
 
You have no ability to put one idea on top of another. Simple things stated concisely confuse you. You want flowery nothingness.

If there is the subjective mind there MUST be something objective creating it.

I wrote this using my mind so I have no doubt the subjective mind exists.

You don't know how the subjective mind is created so you somehow pretend it is not created in any way or worse pretend you have any clue how it is created.
 
This is not about your hand waving and distractions.

What you call ''hand waving and distraction'' happens to be the quotes and links, studies, experiments and analysis by experts in their field, that I post to support what I say. What I say being no more or less than this body of work supports, and from which I draw from.


It is this legitimate body of work that you reject out of hand because it does not suit your bogus ideas about 'objective mind' even while furiously engaging in hand waving and distraction of your own......never offering a shred of evidence to support your own claims.
 
You have not provided one quote from one study where the objective mind was understood in any way.

To objectively know what the mind can do you have to know what it is first.

- - - Updated - - -

Lashing out with tautologies does not an argument make. At least resort to better form: you believe you used your mind because you believe you have a mind is not very compelling. How about some demonstration of self evidence here. On what does your belief stand?

I do believe I used my mind to write these sentences.

Because I don't believe in miracles.
 
Give me an action that justifies your belief. Perhaps you thought so you conclude you have mind. Now all you have to do is quantify hought. But no it's mantra, mantra of I believe I believe, hallelujah , I believe. Praise be your deity.

Honestly I'd rather we talk about the basis for thought rather than pray about belief. There, in so doing we establish connection with function of brain. Wallah. A discourse that leads somewhere.

My guess you realized early on that thought-mind would suffer the same fate as think-being.
 
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