The Race For 2024

[Elixir]

Regarding jet exhaust by a celeb versus plastic bags and POV exhaust: I'd address what 330 million people are doing (120,000,000,000 plastic bags per year) if we want to get the most bang for our environmental buck. Beyond that, was TS just coming back to see a football game?

Unless her next flight was back to Japan one would presume she would be flying back to the States anyway.

Can you imagine the audience if we get Taylor Swift to walk on the moon? During a Superbowl?

 

[Toni]

Phillips is another rich businessman who decided to enter politics. His record isn't bad and he seems to support the same policies that Biden does. If Biden dropped out, I could see supporting him EXCEPT he has very little name recognition and he's no Barack Obama with the silver tongued ability to draw you in. I particularly dislike that his entire campaign seems to be Biden's old. Basically, I think he's unelectable because, as you've mentioned, no one has heard of him. The only thing that is 'interesting' about Phillips is..... well, nothing.

I have heard the idea that maybe Biden is waiting for primaries to end to declare he is stepping down. If he steps down now, Phillips could collect enough delegates. But if he waits until the primaries the delegates would be free to do cow-trading at the convention and nominate Kamala or Goodhair or whomever.

Same goes if Trump has to bow out. His delegates would not go for Haley, but if he were to drop out now, she might well collect most pledged delegates.

Sure Phillips might gain enough delegates but he's never going to gain enough votes. You're fairly plugged in politically in your own way (me, too) and you've barely heard of him. I get emails from his campaign looking for money that I'm not willing to give to him because IMO, he's deliberately harming the best candidate the Dems have for 2024.

I groaned aloud when Biden entered the 2020 race precisely because of his age --and because there were other candidates I thought would have a more progressive agenda. It turns out that he's done a masterful job promoting a pretty progressive agenda (for the USA in these times) and has done so successfully.

The only things I can say about Phillips that are favorable is that his voting record so far has supported Biden's legislative initiatives 100% and he's younger than Biden. That says nothing about what he'd try to do or how successful he'd be--if he won. He has far less name recognition than ANY GOP candidate whose name I've seen. He won't win. He's a non-starter.

Yes, Biden is older than dirt but he's done an extremely good job so far. AND he's proven he can beat Trump, the presumptive GOP nominee. Yes, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd make Biden 20 years younger but: reality.

 

[Copernicus]

Because we are all talking about the age problem with our two presidential candidates, it is worth watching Jon Stewart's premier Daily Show appearance. (If you haven't heard, he is back hosting the Comedy Central show, but only on Mondays.) In this segment, Stewart goes after both candidates on the grounds that neither is really fit enough to last through a second term, not to mention that Donald Trump was never a competent or qualified person to hold that office in the first place. Anyway, here is the entire half-hour show from Youtube. The 12-minute Zanny Minton Beddoes segment at the end is not included here. For those who want to see it, that segment is also available on Youtube.

 

[Derec]

I don't know who you're agreeing with here.

With what you wrote that you "would normally say".

"Duty to speak up?" Answered in the fist part of my statement you clipped.

And I am still asking: why? These entertainers do not have any special insight, much less expertise. Susan Sarandon is not an expert on foreign policy. Mark Ruffalo is not an expert on energy and the environment. Taylor Swift is not an expert in anything except making mediocre songs badmouthing her ex-boyfriends. And btw, Kelce should take that as a warning - there will almost certainly be a nasty song with his name on it in the future.

Regarding jet exhaust by a celeb versus plastic bags and POV exhaust: I'd address what 330 million people are doing (120,000,000,000 plastic bags per year) if we want to get the most bang for our environmental buck.

Plastic ban bags are not even very effective. You have to use a cloth bag thousands of times for the environmental payback. Paper straws are also not an environmental slam dunk in addition to being a far inferior product compared to real straws.
Plastics did not conquer the world for no reason.
And I still don't see why hypocritical celebrities with huge carbon footprints should be let off the hook when discussing all the intrusive measures governments want to impose on the rest of us.

Beyond that, was TS just coming back to see a football game? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant, see boyfriend play football.

A distinction without a difference, don't you think?

I don't know of Taylor being some rabid NFL fan. But more than wanting to see Travis Kelce, many fans were likely expecting her there. Millions of teen/preteen girls suffered through that spectacle just to catch a glimpse of Taylor Swift.

I do not get cults of personality like hers.

She has yet to block out the moon landing.

Especially since US population back then was only ~200M.

Regarding other celebs who may be traveling by air and the mansions we assume they live in, there may be security concerns to factor in, security that air travel and walled off homes provide.

I would not mind it so much if the same people who are now celebrating the Taylor Swift cult of personality do not also support things like banning plastic bags or plastic straws.

 

[Derec]

Sure Phillips might gain enough delegates but he's never going to gain enough votes. You're fairly plugged in politically in your own way (me, too) and you've barely heard of him. I get emails from his campaign looking for money that I'm not willing to give to him because IMO, he's deliberately harming the best candidate the Dems have for 2024.

I do not know how much he can be harming him being that he is just a blimp in the primaries right now. If he was pulling 20, 30% in states Biden is on the ballot he would be harming him, yes.

I groaned aloud when Biden entered the 2020 race precisely because of his age --and because there were other candidates I thought would have a more progressive agenda. It turns out that he's done a masterful job promoting a pretty progressive agenda (for the USA in these times) and has done so successfully.

That's where my disappointment with Biden lies. He ran as a moderate, but allowed himself to be pulled hard to the left by Bernie Saruman and Alexandria Occasio Wormtongue. Bloomberg would have been a much better old white moderate candidate, but he fell victim to Warren's politics of personal destruction.

Yes, Biden is older than dirt but he's done an extremely good job so far. AND he's proven he can beat Trump, the presumptive GOP nominee. Yes, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd make Biden 20 years younger but: reality.

Biden did beat Trump, but in 2024 the polls are against Biden. Especially in swing states.
As I said previously, he is trailing by 8 in PA, a very important swing state.
Something needs to change. Either something to knock down Trump, or to lift Biden. Otherwise I fear Trump 47 will happen.

 

[Derec]

Unless her next flight was back to Japan one would presume she would be flying back to the States anyway.

According to Wikipedia, after Tokyo came Melbourne. Vegas is quite a detour - ~8700 miles. That detour alone burned more fuel than I use in a year.

 

[Derec]

Are people expecting Swift to endorse anyone? The right-wing's obsession with her is... well typical. She says people should get registered to vote, and all of a sudden she is everywhere in alt-right media.

To be fair, I did not pay TS much heed until the lefties on here started obsessing over her.

 

[Derec]

Meh... he'd just go away as Dark Brandon and come back as Brandon the White.

I see him more as a King Theoden character. With Alexandria Occasio Wormtongue whispering in his ear.

 

[TomC]

Are people expecting Swift to endorse anyone? The right-wing's obsession with her is... well typical. She says people should get registered to vote, and all of a sudden she is everywhere in alt-right media.

To be fair, I did not pay TS much heed until the lefties on here started obsessing over her.

The lefties?
I only knew of "Tay Tay" from a vicious satire of her on an adult cartoon, Family Guy, before the righties started obsessing over her.

Really, it was all over the place. She became a bigger threat to all decent folks than Bud Light.
It was weird.
Tom

 

[Derec]

I heard a theory that the Dems need to wait until Super Tuesday for Biden to get enough votes (combined with super delegates) to be able to drop out.

I read that too somewhere, but not Super Tuesday - more like after the primaries are done. And it makes a lot of sense. If he is to drop out, that is the most logical time.

Then someone like Newsom (not Williamson or Philips) will come along and get the nomination. Philips' delegates after Super Tuesday Biden dropout would not be enough to overcome a Newsom (for example) superdelegate gifting?

Not to mention that Biden's regular delegates would be unbound as well if he drops out.
It is too late for Newsom or Harris or whomever to enter the primaries. But they can still horse trade at the convention.

Is this plausible or even possible?

Very much so. If there is a planned withdrawal, and not an acute health event, expect it to go down like that.

If Biden were to drop out today, then Dean Philips would get all of the delegates?

He could get enough. It would be too late for anybody else to get on the ballot.
Of course DNC could lobby to vote for Biden anyway as he would presumably still be on the state ballots.

Is Dean Philips a hated schmuck that TPTB don't like?

I don't know about hated. It's more that hardly anybody knows him. In a regular primary season he'd be an also-ran I think.

It is kind of "interesting" that Philips is getting no coverage.

He lost to Biden when Biden wasn't even on the ballot.
He got fewer votes (1.7%) than Marianne "Powerful Magic" Williamson (2.1%) in SC.
Why would he get a lot of coverage at this point? Had he won NH, I'd expect some coverage. Had he broken double digits in SC, likewise.

 

[Toni]

Sure Phillips might gain enough delegates but he's never going to gain enough votes. You're fairly plugged in politically in your own way (me, too) and you've barely heard of him. I get emails from his campaign looking for money that I'm not willing to give to him because IMO, he's deliberately harming the best candidate the Dems have for 2024.

I do not know how much he can be harming him being that he is just a blimp in the primaries right now. If he was pulling 20, 30% in states Biden is on the ballot he would be harming him, yes.

I groaned aloud when Biden entered the 2020 race precisely because of his age --and because there were other candidates I thought would have a more progressive agenda. It turns out that he's done a masterful job promoting a pretty progressive agenda (for the USA in these times) and has done so successfully.

That's where my disappointment with Biden lies. He ran as a moderate, but allowed himself to be pulled hard to the left by Bernie Saruman and Alexandria Occasio Wormtongue. Bloomberg would have been a much better old white moderate candidate, but he fell victim to Warren's politics of personal destruction.

Yes, Biden is older than dirt but he's done an extremely good job so far. AND he's proven he can beat Trump, the presumptive GOP nominee. Yes, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd make Biden 20 years younger but: reality.

Biden did beat Trump, but in 2024 the polls are against Biden. Especially in swing states.
As I said previously, he is trailing by 8 in PA, a very important swing state.
Something needs to change. Either something to knock down Trump, or to lift Biden. Otherwise I fear Trump 47 will happen.

The two big issues that are against Biden now are:
1. His age
2. Israel/Palenstine

Dean absolutely IS going after Biden because of his age and is lending credence to concern that the old man just isn’t cutting it. It’s more credible because this is coming from someone within Biden’s party who has voted with him 100% of the time. It’s a selling point: Gee, I like the guy and I agree with him but he’s past his prime and we need a new, younger version of the old man. Say, me. ( that is: Phillips)

I’m not buying what Phillips is selling. At least in part because politics is a very dirty game and I fully believe that Phillips is undermining voter confidence in Biden for his own personal ambition. Which is way less forgivable because I think he does not have a prayer of winning and not much chance of being effective as POTUS.


I understand that you and voters like you might have been more comfortable with Bloomberg who, btw, is the same age as Biden. Bloomberg simply did not have the experience, the expertise, the relationships that Biden has spent so many years developing. And we’d be hearing about what an old man Bloomberg is.

Biden was THE choice for anyone who wanted the antithesis of and antidote to Trumpism. He was a known quantity in a time of deep crises, if not created by, certainly made much worse by loud mouth know nothing burn the whole place down and make me king Trump.

Unfortunately he still is. Because Trump is running again.

The thing about Biden is that he’s actually evolved in his thinking throughout his career. He served as VP to the first black POTUS—a very progressive move. And by all reports, the two worked very well together. Obama wasn’t a particularly progressive president t—he could hardly afford to be very progressive. The mere fact of him was progressive. And that scared the shit out of racists so closeted they had no idea they were racist. Plus the overt racists. I think that Biden has become more progressive and that it’s not a case of him being manipulated by pretty young women. The old adage of becoming more conservative as you age is not necessarily true. It isn’t for me, that is certain,

I know you’re not keen on powerful women and that you don’t particularly hold the most progressive attitudes about the environment. You and I sharply disagree there—but I still eat meat and drive a ( fuel efficient) gas powered vehicle. But come on: surely you see that we need to make some difficult changes now in our thinking about the environment and what we can do to mitigate climate change—and take very serious actions NOW.

I am not going to get into the whole Israel/Palestine thing except to say that I think it’s a nearly no win situation, that both sides have committed tremendous and grave wrongs —and that I don’t think the timing is an accident.

 

[Toni]

Are people expecting Swift to endorse anyone? The right-wing's obsession with her is... well typical. She says people should get registered to vote, and all of a sudden she is everywhere in alt-right media.

To be fair, I did not pay TS much heed until the lefties on here started obsessing over her.

The lefties are obsessing? Lolololol!

 

[Copernicus]

I don't know anyone in this forum who has had more to say about AOL than Derec. I don't expect him or the right wing echo chamber to stop bringing her up, but she is not the celebrity that she once was in the news media. She still manages to get air time for interviews, but not as frequently as in the past.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know anyone in this forum who has had more to say about AOL than Derec. I don't expect him or the right wing echo chamber to stop bringing her up, but she is not the celebrity that she once was in the news media. She still manages to get air time for interviews, but not as frequently as in the past.

lpetrich?

 

[Elixir]

I don't know anyone in this forum who has had more to say about AOL than Derec. I don't expect him or the right wing echo chamber to stop bringing her up, but she is not the celebrity that she once was in the news media. She still manages to get air time for interviews, but not as frequently as in the past.

lpetrich?

What’s up with America On Line?
I didn’t even know it still existed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meh... he'd just go away as Dark Brandon and come back as Brandon the White.

I see him more as a King Theoden character. With Alexandria Occasio Wormtongue whispering in his ear.

AOC appears to be putting in her time at the moment, and isn't remotely in charge of anything.

You could say she is Biden'ing her time for a senate run when Schumer retires. That she lives rent free in your mind probably helps her pay the bills too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know anyone in this forum who has had more to say about AOL than Derec. I don't expect him or the right wing echo chamber to stop bringing her up, but she is not the celebrity that she once was in the news media. She still manages to get air time for interviews, but not as frequently as in the past.

lpetrich?

What’s up with America On Line?
I didn’t even know it still existed.

I still use AOL, when on MySpace.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Has this been mentioned yet? I didn't see anything about it. How pivotal is WI? Is it really considered a swing state?

Wisconsin Picks New Legislative Maps That Would End Years of GOP Gerrymandering

Under legal pressure to address Wisconsin’s “Swiss cheese” and oddly shaped districts, the Legislature approved redrawn maps that promise to create a new dynamic in a state known for its pivotal role in national politics.

www.propublica.org

A state Supreme Court decision finally forced Wisconsin Republicans to cede an advantage they enjoyed for more than a decade with maps that made the state one of the nation’s foremost examples of gerrymandering.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That has been brewing for a while with a lot of dirty tricks under the surface. The Governor provided the legislature with a fair map, he could have gone hog wild, but didn't. The trick, however, was that the GOP passed it to go into effect in November. So not for this election. With that being the case, Evers could veto and the WI Supreme Court takes it.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Yeah. Digging into it, it's still rather tilted in favor of the fascist wing, but it's an improvement. Issues like this are (one of) the reason(s) I'd like to see a voting system that eliminates districts all together and just has a proportional voting system, or some other means to fill the offices.