The Race For 2024

[Derec]

OMFG: Just stop it with the ugly, hateful nicknames you like to bestow on women.

I use nicknames with a lot of politicians, regardless of race or gender. That you only notice them when applied to female politicians says far more about you than it does about me.
"Mad Hatter" is not even ugly or hateful. "Hatter" is a reference to her last name - "klobučar" means "hatter" in Slovene - and "mad" is a reference to her well-documented anger issues.
Terrified Aides Say Amy Klobuchar Is Just Like Trump
I get it. You have a chip on your shoulder pad about female politicians. Any nickname is seen by you as a womanhood itelf.
I see it the opposite. There can be no true equality until there is an equal treatment. That means that nicknames for female politicians and other public figures should be seen as no different than similar nicknames for their male counterparts.

It doesn’t diminish them but it certainly does diminish any value in anything you write.

I disagree. And you do too when it comes to nicknames in general, or else you'd be writing similar screeds against many other posters as well. How is "Mad Hatter" worse than "Cheato" or "Orange Menace" or "Twitler"?

Do you imagine that there is a tiny tiny tiny pool of candidates for VP who have requisite education and experience to hold that position and that they are all white and male?

No. But many of suitable candidates in 2020 were white and male and they were excluded from consideration for nothing more than having the wrong skin color and wrong genitalia. Same for Biden's SCOTUS pick and Goodhair's Senate pick. See, Newsom is a white male, but I use a nickname for him too. Klobuchar is not special in that regard.

Or that all of those white men heretofore graced with the invitation to be a running mate got to their positions solely on their merits and that it never had a goddam thing to do with what’s hanging between their legs?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are butt hurt because someone explicitly announced that they were only considering women of color as possible candidates?

Not butthurt. I think it is wrong to limit selection in this way, but that is the nature of modern Democratic Party - steeped in identity politics so much that the last time they put a man in a SCOTUS seat was in 1994 - three decades ago!
What irked me here though is that you did not even want to acknowledged that that's what was happening and instead were accusing TSwizzle of being "racist" and "sexist" for daring to notice that KH was a DEI pick.

Imagine how it feels to grow up female and not white and to know that the only people ever in consideration were white and male.

And how is the same kind of exclusion right now when it was wrong before?

You’re angry? One—exactly ONE time black women comprised the candidate pool and you are…. angry?

It's several times in a short period of time. Veep and SCOTUS seat by Biden and Senate seat by Newsom. All limited to black women.

But again, this was not even about the selection itself. It was about you accusing TSwizzle of sexism and racism for pointing out that KH's selection was made by race and gender.

 

[Derec]

Wait, you really think this is true?
Seriously??

Yes. It is obviously true. You just have ideological blinders.

 

[Toni]

Donald did that too, with the appointment of Amy Barrett. He made it very clear he would only consider a woman to replace RBG.

"Trump did it too" is not the excuse you seem to think it is.

What’s your excuse, Derec? The one you gave up thread smells very familiar.

You think I’m picking on you? Look, I’m just sick of wading through bullshit nonsense in your posts to figure out if you actually have anything of value to say, I assume anyone writing here wants to be heard and I assume people have points or think they do and pretty often, the points are valid, even when I don’t agree.

I’m going to waaaaaay overstep boundaries here and say that I think that you, and a lot ( but certainly not all and probably not most) of white men find it upsetting to realize that sometimes other people—not white, maybe female, get jobs and recognition and admissions to all sorts of good schools and get a lot of good things when a particular person who is white and male did not. For a long long time, only white males were allowed to vote, own property, go to college, get most types of work, hold elected office: I’m only going back as far as electing officials—which was a huge advancement over everything being hereditary and long male lines.

We’re making more advancements here by including in our searches and occasionally explicitly looking for some well qualified candidates who are not necessarily white or male. It should not be necessary to do so. But at least Biden chose his candidates from among well qualified and experienced individuals, unlike Trump.

 

[Derec]

"Brandon" isn't even a nickname, nor particularly clever. It's just a misheard term that stuck and a way for Republicans to pretend to be coy about their name calling.

It lacks the directness of nasty nicknames the Left likes to throw around, sure, but it is clever in that it is also a criticism of mainstream media.
When the NASCAR audience were chanting "Fuck Joe Biden" the reporter pretended that they were chanting "Let's go Brandon" instead. I do not think she genuinely misheard it - she was right there.

 

[Rhea]

Wait, you really think this is true?
Seriously??

Yes. It is obviously true. You just have ideological blinders.

The impression of your name calling is not limited to political figures. But I don not need to ride this particular rabbit hole, so I will just drop that and remain astonished that you don’t think of yourself as a name-caller elite.

 

[Toni]

OMFG: Just stop it with the ugly, hateful nicknames you like to bestow on women.

I use nicknames with a lot of politicians, regardless of race or gender. That you only notice them when applied to female politicians says far more about you than it does about me.
"Mad Hatter" is not even ugly or hateful. "Hatter" is a reference to her last name - "klobučar" means "hatter" in Slovene - and "mad" is a reference to her well-documented anger issues.
Terrified Aides Say Amy Klobuchar Is Just Like Trump
I get it. You have a chip on your shoulder pad about female politicians. Any nickname is seen by you as a womanhood itelf.
I see it the opposite. There can be no true equality until there is an equal treatment. That means that nicknames for female politicians and other public figures should be seen as no different than similar nicknames for their male counterparts.

It doesn’t diminish them but it certainly does diminish any value in anything you write.

I disagree. And you do too when it comes to nicknames in general, or else you'd be writing similar screeds against many other posters as well. How is "Mad Hatter" worse than "Cheato" or "Orange Menace" or "Twitler"?

Do you imagine that there is a tiny tiny tiny pool of candidates for VP who have requisite education and experience to hold that position and that they are all white and male?

No. But many of suitable candidates in 2020 were white and male and they were excluded from consideration for nothing more than having the wrong skin color and wrong genitalia. Same for Biden's SCOTUS pick and Goodhair's Senate pick. See, Newsom is a white male, but I use a nickname for him too. Klobuchar is not special in that regard.

Or that all of those white men heretofore graced with the invitation to be a running mate got to their positions solely on their merits and that it never had a goddam thing to do with what’s hanging between their legs?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

You are butt hurt because someone explicitly announced that they were only considering women of color as possible candidates?

Not butthurt. I think it is wrong to limit selection in this way, but that is the nature of modern Democratic Party - steeped in identity politics so much that the last time they put a man in a SCOTUS seat was in 1994 - three decades ago!
What irked me here though is that you did not even want to acknowledged that that's what was happening and instead were accusing TSwizzle of being "racist" and "sexist" for daring to notice that KH was a DEI pick.

Imagine how it feels to grow up female and not white and to know that the only people ever in consideration were white and male.

And how is the same kind of exclusion right now when it was wrong before?

You’re angry? One—exactly ONE time black women comprised the candidate pool and you are…. angry?

It's several times in a short period of time. Veep and SCOTUS seat by Biden and Senate seat by Newsom. All limited to black women.

But again, this was not even about the selection itself. It was about you accusing TSwizzle of sexism and racism for pointing out that KH's selection was made by race and gender.

It absolutely is racist and sexist to assert that race and gender were the only or major qualifications Harris possessed or possesses, which is exactly what you and others do when you focus on that one thing: A powerful white mam publicly saying d that out of the pool of candidates he was drawing from, he was going to look first at those candidates who were female and not white. He just said what is being unsaid aloud but definitely known all the time, from time immemorial—only before it was white men who comprised the totality of the pool.

I’m not thrilled he explicitly said that, either. But I’m also not stupid enough to not realize that he did not say that without knowing and having had vetted a pool of candidates who were very well qualified and who would work well with him before he uttered those words to anyone, much less publicly. He’s not Trump you know, who lets whatever words float to the surface of the septic tank he calls a brain and lets them escape from his mouth,

 

[ZiprHead]

  List of nicknames used by Donald Trump

 

[Rhea]

It lacks the directness of nasty nicknames the Left likes to throw around, sure, but it is clever in that it is also a criticism of mainstream media.

I don’t particularly care about the Brandon thing, it just strikes me as an eye-roller. I think the reason is because it appears that its use is not meant to disparage Biden in any way, its use appears to be for goading others, exclusively. Perhaps *because* it is so non-descriptive and mild, that supports the sense that it is not meant to disparage person A, but to goad person B. While the names for Trump are meant to disparage HIM by calling out his failings. “Brandon” doesn’t call out any failings, it just repeats a sense of disorganized opposition.

Do you disagree? Do you think it is used here as a way to show disdain for Biden’s characteristics?

 

[Derec]

You think I’m picking on you? Look, I’m just sick of wading through bullshit nonsense in your posts to figure out if you actually have anything of value to say, I assume anyone writing here wants to be heard and I assume people have points or think they do and pretty often, the points are valid, even when I don’t agree.

Yes, I think you are picking on me. Especially when you are not picking on other uses of nicknames for politicians and public figures.

I’m going to waaaaaay overstep boundaries here and say that I think that you, and a lot ( but certainly not all and probably not most) of white men find it upsetting to realize that sometimes other people—not white, maybe female, get jobs and recognition and admissions to all sorts of good schools and get a lot of good things when a particular person who is white and male did not.

I think people should be treated as individuals when it comes to admissions to schools or getting jobs. So-called "affirmative action" and "DEI" are antithetical to that, as they treat people not as individuals but as interchangeable
I do not have a problem with somebody non-white, or female, etc. getting "jobs and recognition and admissions to all sorts of good schools and get a lot of good things" if they did it by merit and did not gain an advantage over others because of their race or genitalia. You, on the other hand, are fine with discriminating by race and gender as long as non-whites and women get the advantage. And you accuse those who are opposed to such discrimination of sexism and racism, which is truly Orwellian.

For a long long time, only white males were allowed to vote, own property, go to college, get most types of work, hold elected office: I’m only going back as far as electing officials—which was a huge advancement over everything being hereditary and long male lines.

So? That was in the past. That does not mean that it is laudable to discriminate against uninvolved white men as a sort of collective punishment.

We’re making more advancements here by including in our searches and occasionally explicitly looking for some well qualified candidates who are not necessarily white or male.

But excluding people because they are white and/or male is not advancing anything.

But at least Biden chose his candidates from among well qualified and experienced individuals, unlike Trump.

I do not agree with Vance with his socially conservative politics, but he went to Ohio State and Yale (without the benefits of "affirmative action"), was a Marine deployed in Iraq, worked as a law clerk and also in business, and is now a US Senator.
Quite unrelated to his politics, he is well-qualified to be vice president, even if he is a white male.

 

[Rhea]

It absolutely is racist and sexist to assert that race and gender were the only or major qualifications Harris possessed or possesses, which is exactly what you and others do when you focus on that one thing: A powerful white mam publicly saying d that out of the pool of candidates he was drawing from, he was going to look first at those candidates who were female and not white.

THis is a good point. The complaint about “DEI hires” always seem to convey that what they really mean is that the candidate had ONLY DEI as a qualification.

Which says So. Much. about whether racism and sexism are behind the comment.

 

[Derec]

Do you disagree? Do you think it is used here as a way to show disdain for Biden’s characteristics?

I do not mind it precisely because "Biden's characteristics" are not really the issue with the Biden presidency, but the ecosystem around it, from the Democratic Party that pulled him to the left to the mainstream media.
That said, I do not use the "Brandon" nickname myself. I just found it hypocritical for Toni to go off on TSwizzle for using it (even implying that he forgot Biden's name) while being ok with much worse nicknames for Trump.

 

[Derec]

THis is a good point. The complaint about “DEI hires” always seem to convey that what they really mean is that the candidate had ONLY DEI as a qualification.

It's never the only qualification. But KH almost certainly not have been selected had Biden not artificially restricted eligibility by race and gender. Same goes for that Butler woman in the Senate whom Newsom appointed.
KBJ on the other hand might have been the appointee for SCOTUS under a fair selection, although her odds would of course have been lower had she not faced an artificially restricted pool of candidates.

 

[Derec]

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[TomC]

It lacks the directness of nasty nicknames the Left likes to throw around, sure, but it is clever in that it is also a criticism of mainstream media.

It lacks the accuracy of most insults aimed at Trump.
A reporter apparently tried to rescue her spot by pretending to mis-hear the obscenities being chanted by the Trumpistas.

Obscenities that decent folks won't allow on such broadcasting. They just won't allow anything that starts with "Fuck...". She did her best to tamp down the ugliness of Trumpista culture, on camera at least.

Fat lot of good it did her. Trump supporters are consistently nasty and stupid. That's why the meme developed legs, and is still with us. Because so many Trump supporters have the morals and scruples of 3rd grade bullies on the playground.
Tom

 

[Derec]

Back in the 2016 race, his penchant for dismissive nicknames was...almost entertaining. "Low Energy Jeb." "Little Marco." "Crooked Hillary." "Lyin' Ted." Yet the last time he had an original was 4 years ago with "Sleepy Joe."

Yes. His nickname game used to be on point. Now it has fallen off.

He appears to have settled on "Comrade Kamala" now, but again...dude...the Cold War is over. It was long over when you and Ivana (remember her?) were doing ads for stuffed crust pizza from Pizza Hut. The kids today, with their crypto (which you don't understand) and the TikTok (which you also don't understand) don't have any memory of living under the existential threat of international communism. Calling her "Comrade Kamala" is the real life embodiment of the "how do you do, fellow kids?" meme.

Cackling Kamala would have worked.

But about your objection to "Comrade Kamala" and kids these days, it is sadly true. Many GenZ and younger Millennials are so enamored with socialism because they grew up after most actually existing socialist countries collapsed.

 

[Derec]

It lacks the accuracy of most insults aimed at Trump.

"Tangerine Hitler" and the like is not particularly accurate.

And you at least admit that the reporter pretended to mishear the chants. And that's why it became a thing - it fed into the well-known bias of the mainstream media, whether or not the reporter pretended to mishear to help Biden or (as you suggest) to pretend the FCC-unfriendly language was something else.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'll also note, "the Left" isn't running for President.

So? I was not talking about use of nicknames by candidates themselves. My point was the hypocrisy of calling presidents/former presidents by unflattering nicknames on this forum. Toni objected to TSwizzle calling Biden "Brandon", but does not seem to mind all the nicknames thrown at Trump. If "Cheeto" is acceptable, then so should be "Brandon".

Brandon isn't offensive, it is stupid and delusional. Sleepy Joe, okay. Brandon... that is the right-wing thinking they proved the media was in the pocket of the left... because they are asphyxiating inside their bubble.

 

[Derec]

Ridicule and mockery have their place, especially in informal settings like this social media platform.

I agree that mockery and ridicule of politicians have their place. But it should be a two-way street. It can't be that mockery of Republicans is accepted, but mockery of Democrats is attacked. Look at Toni going off at nicknames for Democratic politicians.

 

[Derec]

I refer to Trump as Trump. I think that referring to him by unflattering nicknames distracts from the real issues with Trump:

Fair enough. You do not use nicknames. But other people like to pepper their posts with nicknames. And yet you went off on TSwizzle here and routinely go off on me for using nicknames for politicians and other public figures, but do not have the same derision for those using nasty nicknames for Republicans.

He is too ill informed with regards to the requisite knowledge and understanding of basic civics, and US or world history, much less the complexities to be effective as POTUS.

True. I'd never vote for him. But that does not mean that the other side is beyond ridicule and mockery as well. And if it's ok to mock and ridicule Republicans, same should be ok for Democrats. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

His physical and his mental health are seriously declining along with his cognition. This makes him too easy to manipulate, which simply cannot stand for someone in high office.

True. Same has been the case with "Theoden" Biden being manipulated by Bernie "Sandersman the White" and AOC "Wormtongue" who pulled him to the left during his term. Trump could hide behind Biden while he was running as Biden's issues were much more visible and obvious, but now that Biden is in the background, Trump looks so much older. That's why he does not want another debate.

He seems to lack the basic morals and integrity to make a good leader and indeed, his history of sexual assaults on women and children make him highly susceptible to black mail or other compromising positions.

He was accused of attempted sexual assault by that nutburger writer, but what "children" do you think he sexually assaulted?

I don’t care about his vanity or his hair or his shoe lifts.

Wait? He is heightening? Why? He is already pretty tall.
I will confess that I’m a bit irritated at his orange makeup. I get that it may be necessary when in camera as lighting can really wash you out but why can’t he hire someone who is competent at the job? [/quote]
Absolutely true. It's a very horrendous makeup job.

That is what matters. He’s unfit and dangerous. He will sell out anyone if he thinks it will benefit himself, personally.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[ZiprHead]

Not butthurt. I think it is wrong to limit selection in this way, but that is the nature of modern Democratic Party - steeped in identity politics so much that the last time they put a man in a SCOTUS seat was in 1994 - three decades ago!

Merrick Garland is a white guy nominated by Obama in 2016 and his seat was stolen from him by other old white guys.