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The removal of statues

Perhaps what is needed is the erasure of all traces of white settlement throughout the world? For all the Caucasians to continuously hang their heads in shame and self flagulate?
 
angelo said:
Perhaps what is needed is the erasure of all traces of white settlement throughout the world? For all the Caucasians to continuously hang their heads in shame and self flagulate?
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I hate to point out the obvious, but the confederates didn't conquer anything! They didn't settle any new lands. They didn't add much to the scientific world. As noted by Ford, they added a little to the culture. The rebel yell made famous by Billy Idol was cool. But other than that, they weren't very impressive. They promoted a lost and evil practice. And then had their butts kicked. I don't know if shame is appropriate 150 years later. But maybe, just maybe: a tiny bit of humility?
 
angelo said:
Perhaps what is needed is the erasure of all traces of white settlement throughout the world? For all the Caucasians to continuously hang their heads in shame and self flagulate?
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Well, that's a wonderfully adult response.
If someone suggests maybe not celebrating rape, torture, enslavement, and pretty much treating the world like God gave it to you, then go all the way over to shame for being as white as the rapists and slavers. There can be no middle of the road. PC GONE BERSERK!
 
To justify the sense of being singled out for the destruction of statues, we would need fairly analogous statues of non whites would did similar things (cross racial/ethnic conquest or subjugation) under demand to be removed from public quasi governmental space.

Perhaps statues of Emperor Meiji in Hokkaido or Okinawa (if they even exist) would be analogous. But an Ainu or native Okinawan group asking to remove an Emperor Meiji statue in Tokyo instead would be crazy.

Europeans had the jump on expansion so they are the lion's share of these statues.
 
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repoman said:
Person of interest in spray painting looks to be lanky, youngish, hipster white guy.

So, is it someone who hates worship of Cook or someone wanting Cook statues seen as underdog and to blame Aborigines or leftists?
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Maybe he doesn't like boat people coming to Australia without visas and setting up colonies of illegals and having anchor babies so they can claim they belong there.
 
Columbus, as is taught in grade school, dared convention to prove the world wasn't flat, so admiration. We learn in secondary school that the flat earth stuff was just shit and people wouldn't finance his trip because the distance would be impossible to cross and he got lucky finding the islands in the Caribbean, and he wasn't even close to being the first to find the continent as a European, by a long shot. The damn continents aren't even named after him, just the capital of Ohio, fucking Ohio.

So the statues because?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Columbus, as is taught in grade school, dared convention to prove the world wasn't flat, so admiration. We learn in secondary school that the flat earth stuff was just shit and people wouldn't finance his trip because the distance would be impossible to cross and he got lucky finding the islands in the Caribbean, and he wasn't even close to being the first to find the continent as a European, by a long shot. The damn continents aren't even named after him, just the capital of Ohio, fucking Ohio.

So the statues because?
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Because so many people stop learning in grade school?

Or anything that wasn't part of the first three episodes of the historically-inspired miniseries ...
 
angelo said:
Perhaps what is needed is the erasure of all traces of white settlement throughout the world? For all the Caucasians to continuously hang their heads in shame and self flagulate?
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What is needed is thoughtful contemplation about who and what we want to celebrate in public spaces.

People can put up giant statues of Hitler or some slave owner or some sucker who went to war for slave owners on their own property.
 
untermensche said:
What is needed is thoughtful contemplation about who and what we want to celebrate in public spaces.
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^ This. Those persons who we celebrate ought to be most deserving of celebration. The celebratory words that come along with the monument ought to also be deserving verbiage.
 
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CHH2FGUBjQ[/YOUTUBE]

Ravin Gandhi is the founder and CEO of GMM Nonstick Coatings, a global supplier of coatings for cookware and bakeware. He was born and raised in Waukegan, Illinois, and currently lives in Chicago. His horrible crime that prompted the above voice mail rant and hundreds of equally vile emails & tweets?

Writing on an op-ed on why he no longer supports Trump after Charlottesville.

But no... it's all about history... not racism. :rolleyes:
 
iolo said:
angelo said:
FFS this tearing down of statues is spreading throughout the political correct West!
Here in Australia some idiots have destroyed statues of Captain Cook overnight.
Greens and one or two Green pc influenced councils are demanding the wording on plaques be re-worded because of claims some indigenous people may be offended!
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You are proud of stealing the country and treating its owners as you have?
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Angelo didn't steal the country; and he's every bit as much its owner as the people you define as owners for being the right race.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Columbus, as is taught in grade school, dared convention to prove the world wasn't flat, so admiration. We learn in secondary school that the flat earth stuff was just shit and people wouldn't finance his trip because the distance would be impossible to cross and he got lucky finding the islands in the Caribbean, and he wasn't even close to being the first to find the continent as a European, by a long shot. The damn continents aren't even named after him, just the capital of Ohio, fucking Ohio.

So the statues because?
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A lot of very important discoveries are made by luck, including penicillin, pacemakers and x-rays, among just a very few.

Columbus was far from being a good person but he is the person who first drew European interest in the new world as a new land to explore (i.e. exploit). He crossed the Atlantic in very small ships (by today's standards), across uncharted waters and survived the trip there and back.

That ain't nothing. Not to say that it isn't balanced or dwarfed (depending on your point of view) by the death and destruction brought with him and his crew. It strains credulity that the Americas would have remained 'undiscovered' until some kinder, gentler time and such discovery of the Americas or of Europe by the ancient Americans would have been more gentle and kinder when eventually it happened. People did a lot of bad shit and frankly, we haven't actually mended our ways much. It's just easier to see the fault in a system and in events that happened long enough in the past that we no longer a)have to deal with it directly--we're still dealing with it or b) acknowledge that we who live today derived benefit from those practices that went along with the discoveries.

Reality is the way we view Columbus and other explorers is much different today than it was in my grade school days (somewhat after Columbus). I see nothing wrong with recognizing and honoring the fact that we, as a nation, have evolved, have matured in our understanding of not only the 'great accomplishments' of our European ancestors but also the damage and exploitation--not to mention murder, rape, enslavement, destruction and more of peoples found in the Americas. Maybe we can even acknowledge and recognize the not insignificant discoveries and developments made by peoples living in the 'new world.' And in Africa, the Middle East, etc. It wasn't all done by Europeans, y'all.

Contrary to what was stated up thread, the Native Americans were not 'stone age' people but had developed keen and arguably more advanced forms of government than the Europeans of those days (Iroquois), had a much better grasp of astronomy, mathematics, architecture and engineering, not to mention accounting ( see Inca and Mayan civilizations). They worked in bronze and did not develop further metallurgy because there was no economic demand for it.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Columbus, as is taught in grade school, dared convention to prove the world wasn't flat, so admiration. We learn in secondary school that the flat earth stuff was just shit and people wouldn't finance his trip because the distance would be impossible to cross and he got lucky finding the islands in the Caribbean, and he wasn't even close to being the first to find the continent as a European, by a long shot. The damn continents aren't even named after him, just the capital of Ohio, fucking Ohio.

So the statues because?
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Columbus thought degrees of longitude were closer together than the conventional wisdom, ergo Asia was much closer than everyone thought. The rest was luck, and he was not a nice guy.

I wouldn't miss his statues, but I'd prefer to concentrate on the confederates for now.
 
Horatio Parker said:
RavenSky said:
And our form of government borrowed heavily from that of the Cherokee Nation
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Indians such as Hiawatha or Tamanend are excellent subjects for statues.

The native influence on American society is understated, I think.
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I agree, and think that is an excellent suggestion. (Someone needs to do it quick, though, before Trump puts up statues of himself)
 
Keith&Co. said:
angelo said:
Perhaps what is needed is the erasure of all traces of white settlement throughout the world? For all the Caucasians to continuously hang their heads in shame and self flagulate?
Click to expand...
Well, that's a wonderfully adult response.
If someone suggests maybe not celebrating rape, torture, enslavement, and pretty much treating the world like God gave it to you, then go all the way over to shame for being as white as the rapists and slavers. There can be no middle of the road. PC GONE BERSERK!
Click to expand...

That's the bad. What about the good? Do we just ignore what European discoveries have contributed to the world because of some bad practices? Which civilisation can claim to be innocent of some bad practices?
 
RavenSky said:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CHH2FGUBjQ[/YOUTUBE]

Ravin Gandhi is the founder and CEO of GMM Nonstick Coatings, a global supplier of coatings for cookware and bakeware. He was born and raised in Waukegan, Illinois, and currently lives in Chicago. His horrible crime that prompted the above voice mail rant and hundreds of equally vile emails & tweets?

Writing on an op-ed on why he no longer supports Trump after Charlottesville.

But no... it's all about history... not racism. :rolleyes:
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You quoted a loony tune who sounds pretty unstable and claim this is somehow representative of all those who support Trump, while you can get loony tunes on the left whom the Democrats want off their side too. The fringes gravitate towards the Centre right or left. Antifa and the CPUSA would traditionally advocate the Democrats but that does not make the Democrats communist.

More violence in the USA

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2017/08/anarchists_assault_5_at_san_fr.html

I know it's not politically correct to say this but ANTIFA and other groups turn up expecting trouble and cause it so there is clearly no false equivalence to suggest one extreme is as bad as each other.

In one oaf the photos there is a communist banner. That doesn't mean everyone against Trump is a communist such events are home for such groups.

Once democracy is respected in the US things will calm down.
 
angelo said:
Keith&Co. said:
Well, that's a wonderfully adult response.
If someone suggests maybe not celebrating rape, torture, enslavement, and pretty much treating the world like God gave it to you, then go all the way over to shame for being as white as the rapists and slavers. There can be no middle of the road. PC GONE BERSERK!
Click to expand...

That's the bad. What about the good? Do we just ignore what European discoveries have contributed to the world because of some bad practices? Which civilisation can claim to be innocent of some bad practices?
Click to expand...

You seem to be fundamentally confused. European culture is not synonymous with the Confederate States of America. We can celebrate European contributions without celebrating the Confederate States of America. It's rather strange to be implying otherwise.

We don't need to put statues up of Nazis recognize things like European science, European arts and culture, and European philosophy. The Confederate States represent one ugly thing. There is no need to honor that cause with monuments.
 
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