The shooting of Keith Lamont Scott, and aftermath

[ksen]

People will always yack on about the detail of every individual murder. The American police kill about a thousand a year, and most blacks they choose to. Why discuss the detail? - take the bang-bangs from the racist bullies.

that is correct.. about 1,000 police shootings a year...
How many black people shoot black people each year? What should we expect that number to be, if there was some conspiracy against black people? prolly less than, or close to, 1,000, right? That actual statistic is over 6,000.

so, your view is not supported by reality.

nice non-sequitur

 

[ronburgundy]

I will give the cops credit on this point this time:

Officers immediately rendered first aid and requested Medic to respond to the scene.”

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103973781.html#storylink=cpy

That's more than they usually do

And I will say again, had police immediately released the video footage, they likely would have averted the protests and riots - especially with even the family acknowledging that the video is unclear if there was a gun in his hands or not. I don't think this man needed to be shot at. I don't see any indication of him acting violently or like a threat.

In that situation, holding a gun in your hand is "acting violently" and "like a threat". So, it comes down to whether he was holding a gun.

But with so many civilians armed with guns, I can also understand why police can be uptight about it.

I just wish they would start shooting white men with guns at the same rate and in the same circumstances as they shoot black men.

You have no evidence that the there are not similar rates of cops shooting "white men with guns... and in the same circumstances."

Keep in mind that the nearby rate of violent crime is a huge part of the "circumstances" that matter for how cops are going to respond to a person holding a hand-gun on a public street. It is also a circumstance that differs greatly on average between the black and white people that cops encounter. In fact, Lamont Scott himself contributed to that context 10 years ago when he shot a man with a gun, likely in area mostly lived in by black people who then became more likely to get shot while holding a gun because of Scott's criminal actions.

I wish that people would consider all the objective ways in which the much higher rate of criminal violence committed by blacks against their neighbors makes it more probable that their mostly black neighbors will get shot by the cops while while holding a gun.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

I heard this statistic a few days ago on the radio, and I have a couple of questions.

Within the limits of my dodgy memory police in the US shot and killed 703 people last year.

Regardless of race, how is this statistic acceptable?

Of those 703, 173 (or 163, Alzheimer's ) were black.

What percentage of the overall population are black people? I've got an idea that it's about 2%, if so, that tells us something.

Still, it seems to be that the US populace is happy to accept the police bringing the cowboy approach to their professional duties.

 

[Angry Floof]

I heard this statistic a few days ago on the radio, and I have a couple of questions.

Within the limits of my dodgy memory police in the US shot and killed 703 people last year.

Regardless of race, how is this statistic acceptable?

Of those 703, 173 (or 163, Alzheimer's ) were black.

What percentage of the overall population are black people? I've got an idea that it's about 2%, if so, that tells us something.

Still, it seems to be that the US populace is happy to accept the police bringing the cowboy approach to their professional duties.

It's around 15%-20%.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

That's very telling.

 

[Angry Floof]

That's very telling.

Yeah, and it's not just a matter of discrepancy between percentage of blacks in the population vs. percentage in prison. (That's what the right wing authoritarian follower bigots around here like to point to to suggest that blacks are inherently more criminal.) But they can't seem to explain why more blacks get longer sentences or death penalty than whites for the same crimes. Furthermore, when victims are black, sentences are lighter than when the victims are white.

Now that is telling.

 

[laughing dog]

Keep in mind that the nearby rate of violent crime is a huge part of the "circumstances" that matter for how cops are going to respond to a person holding a hand-gun on a public street. It is also a circumstance that differs greatly on average between the black and white people that cops encounter. In fact, Lamont Scott himself contributed to that context 10 years ago when he shot a man with a gun, likely in area mostly lived in by black people who then became more likely to get shot while holding a gun because of Scott's criminal actions.

I wish that people would consider all the objective ways in which the much higher rate of criminal violence committed by blacks against their neighbors makes it more probable that their mostly black neighbors will get shot by the cops while while holding a gun.

So you are saying that when black folk in the same situation as white folk with a gun in their hand are the victims of shooting by the police its because of the higher incidence of black on black crime?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I heard this statistic a few days ago on the radio, and I have a couple of questions.

Within the limits of my dodgy memory police in the US shot and killed 703 people last year.

Regardless of race, how is this statistic acceptable?

Of those 703, 173 (or 163, Alzheimer's ) were black.

What percentage of the overall population are black people? I've got an idea that it's about 2%, if so, that tells us something.

Still, it seems to be that the US populace is happy to accept the police bringing the cowboy approach to their professional duties.

It's around 15%-20%.

That's very telling.

When you compare white vs black shootings you find an excess of blacks shot by police.

When you compare white vs black criminals shot by police it's the other way around--you find a deficit of blacks being shot.

 

[Derec]

More on Dindu Keith Scott.
Man shot by police was sold stolen gun, authorities say

CHARLOTTE (WTVD) -- The gun that Keith Scott had on him during the deadly shooting was reported stolen after a breaking and entering, police said. The breaking and entering suspect told ATF Agents that he sold the gun to Scott. The suspect is in custody.

Scott's time in Gastonia

Scott left Gaston County to stay in South Carolina during a difficult period for himself and his family. He’d been charged with driving while intoxicated in May 2015 and spent a day in the county jail, according to county records.
On Oct. 5, a Gaston County District Court judge granted his wife a temporary restraining order. The court order told Scott not to go near his wife, three of their children and the children’s schools. He was not allowed near their Gastonia apartment they’d called home since April 2014, according to court documents. He was told to turn over a black 9mm handgun he owned illegally. Eleven days later, Rakeyia Scott voluntarily dismissed the order against her husband, writing, “He is no longer a threat to me and my family.”
But three days before she got the order, Keith Scott had kicked her, punched their 8-year-old in the head three times and threatened to kill her with the gun, she had written. “He said he is a ‘killer’ and we should know that,” she wrote. She said the man she’d been married to since she was 18 did not have a gun permit and was a felon, having been incarcerated from April 2004 to April 2011. She checked a box saying her husband had threatened her with the gun before.
Attempts to serve Scott with court papers related to the restraining order by members of law enforcement proved unsuccessful. The man had left Gastonia for Charleston, S.C. On Oct. 30, Scott told a Charleston Sheriff’s Office deputy in a phone call that he’d moved to Miami.

Note that she did not write that he had a book.

The whole episode of rioting and violence in Charlotte is solely due to family claiming that Scott was "shot for being black" and that "he didn't have a gun but a book when he was shot". #BLMers then expanded on it, saying that he was killed because he was reading, like slaves supposedly were during antebellum times. I.e. both the family and #BLMers stoked the fires of racial hatred that brought rioters to the streets, ultimately resulting in one man, Justin Carr, getting shot in the head. Nice going assholes!

P.S.: How does that work with having an 8 year old in 2015 when he was in prison between 2004 and 2011? Do they still do conjugal visits in Texas or did the wife have some sidedick?
P.P.S.: Sorry Rakia and Lyric YourAdorable, you won't be able to cash in on this one. Unless Charlotte elected officials are complete morons, that is.

 

[Malintent]

So if someone looks like they will step on the toes of a civilian or a police officer, a police officer is justified in shooting to kill him or her? Really?

No. If the officer says to keep your hands where they are, and you put one in your pocket and tell the cop that you know your rights and that he can go fuck himself... you are being an asshole... a dangerous asshole that is such an asshole, that you may just decide it is you right to "stand your ground" against the cop... you may get a brand new asshole dug for you. Given the context, I am curious why you are pretending to think that assholeness means exactly only one thing... maybe stepping on toes? come on...

Nice try at conflating an officer's obligation to act with the court's obligation to convict. I hear that all the time... "officer 'executed' a man [for shooting at him]"... or, "since when is speeding a capital offense?" [since the speeder attempted to kill the cop, dumbass]

You're the one who is justifying the execution, not me.

you're the one attempting to claim that the cop decided the suspect was guilty and was carrying out his personal justice. No one has claimed that.. only you by using the word "executed". Would you also say that a person driving 5 miles per hour over the speed limit was engaging in attempted murder, because he might have bumped someone? It is a very close analogy... the cop was just as much "executing" someone that was an imminent threat as the driver was a bloodthirsty murderer in the first degree because he drove too fast.

 

[Malintent]

that is correct.. about 1,000 police shootings a year...
How many black people shoot black people each year? What should we expect that number to be, if there was some conspiracy against black people? prolly less than, or close to, 1,000, right? That actual statistic is over 6,000.

so, your view is not supported by reality.

It should be close to 6,000 because summary execution without a trial is fair?

Not sure what you are saying (or asking)... it sounds like you are complaining that all those black people shooting black people (6,000 per year) are acting "unfairly"... ummm.. ok. acting like animals toward each other, more like it.

1 in 6 black people who are shot, get shot by police. the rest seem to be shooting each other. What does that statistic tell you about who the threat to the safety of black people are?

 

[laughing dog]

No. If the officer says to keep your hands where they are, and you put one in your pocket and tell the cop that you know your rights and that he can go fuck himself... you are being an asshole... a dangerous asshole that is such an asshole, that you may just decide it is you right to "stand your ground" against the cop... you may get a brand new asshole dug for you. Given the context, I am curious why you are pretending to think that assholeness means exactly only one thing... maybe stepping on toes? come on...

Apparently you are the one who thinks assholeness means one thing, not me. "Safety" has a wide range of interpretability. For example, Tamir Rice was killed because the police feared for their safety even though the boy had nothing in his hand. And asking for trouble does not mandate it is delivered.

you're the one attempting to claim that the cop decided the suspect was guilty and was carrying out his personal justice. No one has claimed that.. only you by using the word "executed".

Nope. Execution refers to capital punishment which is logically and linguistically independent of the legal system.

Would you also say that a person driving 5 miles per hour over the speed limit was engaging in attempted murder, because he might have bumped someone? It is a very close analogy... the cop was just as much "executing" someone that was an imminent threat as the driver was a bloodthirsty murderer in the first degree because he drove too fast.

I would say your analogy shows a complete misunderstanding of reason and the notion of attempted murder, and therefore should be dismissed as meaningless.

 

[Deepak]

It should be close to 6,000 because summary execution without a trial is fair?

Not sure what you are saying (or asking)... it sounds like you are complaining that all those black people shooting black people (6,000 per year) are acting "unfairly"... ummm.. ok. acting like animals toward each other, more like it.

1 in 6 black people who are shot, get shot by police. the rest seem to be shooting each other. What does that statistic tell you about who the threat to the safety of black people are?

Considering that the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Project, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics puts the total number of police between 900k and 1.1M, and also considering there are about 37 million non-Hispanic blacks in the US I'd say it tells me that police are killing black people at a disproportionately high rate.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Not sure what you are saying (or asking)... it sounds like you are complaining that all those black people shooting black people (6,000 per year) are acting "unfairly"... ummm.. ok. acting like animals toward each other, more like it.

1 in 6 black people who are shot, get shot by police. the rest seem to be shooting each other. What does that statistic tell you about who the threat to the safety of black people are?

Considering that the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Project, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics puts the total number of police between 900k and 1.1M, and also considering there are about 37 million non-Hispanic blacks in the US I'd say it tells me that police are killing black people at a disproportionately high rate.

Malintent's number was wrong. It's not 1 in 6 blacks who get shot get shot by cops, it's 1 in 20.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So police present roughly twice the risk to black people that other black people pose?

Has anyone done genetic testing on police to see if they are more likely to have the warrior gene?

 

[Trausti]

So police present roughly twice the risk to black people that other black people pose?

Has anyone done genetic testing on police to see if they are more likely to have the warrior gene?

Well, there is one group which carries the 2-repeat allele of MAOA gene at a, perhaps, 10X frequency compared to others. That group just may, may, by pure coincidence, have a higher rate of police interaction and violent outcomes.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

It's around 15%-20%.

That's very telling.

When you compare white vs black shootings you find an excess of blacks shot by police.

When you compare white vs black criminals shot by police it's the other way around--you find a deficit of blacks being shot.

Could you unpack that a little for me please, Loren? Are you saying that black innocents are being shot disproportionately often, but that black criminals are NOT being shot by police at the rate that white criminals are?

(The internet can be ambiguous. Please accept that as a genuine question with no overtones. It reads as snarky to me but I can't think how to clean it up.)

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So police present roughly twice the risk to black people that other black people pose?

Has anyone done genetic testing on police to see if they are more likely to have the warrior gene?

Well, there is one group which carries the 2-repeat allele of MAOA gene at a, perhaps, 10X frequency compared to others. That group just may, may, by pure coincidence, have a higher rate of police interaction and violent outcomes.

I see you decided not to answer the questions.

 

[coloradoatheist]

So police present roughly twice the risk to black people that other black people pose?

Has anyone done genetic testing on police to see if they are more likely to have the warrior gene?

They have done behavioral analysis but probably not genetic, but it's very possibly to have a different genetic makeup.

 

[Trausti]

Well, there is one group which carries the 2-repeat allele of MAOA gene at a, perhaps, 10X frequency compared to others. That group just may, may, by pure coincidence, have a higher rate of police interaction and violent outcomes.

I see you decided not to answer the questions.

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