The System

[steve_bank]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

 

[Gospel]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

Lots of lyrical waxing bub. What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

 

[Oleg]

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people.

Hear, hear!

‘Terror granny’ accused of ‘plotting German civil war to bring back the Kaiser’

Woman, 75, arrested after allegedly being the ringleader of a monarchist group which considers the modern republic ‘invalid’

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[ZiprHead]

"Terror Granny"

That's going to be the name of my punk band.

 

[steve_bank]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

Lots of lyrical waxing bub. What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Like I said, I m all ears if yiu have a workable alterntive gine humans as we are.

Your response is part of the 'system sucks' as I see it.

I just got my ballot, are you voting?

The old saying applies, you are eiter part of the solution or part of the problem.

We all sit back and complain as if somehow things are going to change all by itself. And wonder why we end up with a Trump.

 

[Bronzeage]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

Lots of lyrical waxing bub. What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Winston Churchill claims to quote someone, but I think he was being modest when he said,

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...

For all the faults and flaws of our peculiar system of government, the USA has managed to last over 200 years, without collapse or major structural change. We have essentially, the oldest operating system on the the planet. There should be credit due for that, at least.

Any change, whether for the good or the bad, will always be a compromise which can't please everybody, and at times, probably nobody as well, but is always preferred to the alternatives of the moment.

 

[Hermit]

What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Great idea!

How would you go about removing the pay to win from your politics? Rhetorical question, of course. You know bloody well, no matter which party you vote for, or whether you vote at all, you'll either get a Republican or a Democrat government in the next term. And the term after that. And the term after that. Neither will remove the pay to win from politics. So what will you do about it?

As far as elections are concerned, there are only two options: Vote for The Really Bad Party, or Vote for The Not Quite AS Bad Party.

In Australia we are in a similar situation. No matter who we vote for, the next government will be formed by either the Labor Party or the conservative Liberal/National Party coalition. One big difference is having an instant runoff system. A vote for a minor party is not a vote thrown away. We can vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Anarchist Party, if that is our first preference. When their candidates get nowhere, we can be confident that our vote goes to the less evil of the only two options that have an actual chance of forming the next government.

 

[Swammerdami]

We have two threads covering similar ground: this one and "How Proud You Must Be of Crooked, Incompetent Biden." Since the latter thread was started by the now-banned Pariah, I'll make my point here.

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

I do NOT understand the objections to POTUSes like Biden.

The powers of the President are not as great as some imagine. Even executive orders which can be enacted without help from Congress would be untenable unless there was support from key party members, e.g. Pelosi and Schumer. Biden has not — and could not — deviate significantly from the Democratic Party consensus.

Rightly or wrongly, solutions to the 2008 financial crisis were dependent on cooperation from big banks and bank-influenced advisors.

Given that even POTUS can only do so much, progressives should be happy that Biden has followed their agenda as much as he has. (I worry that he's gone TOO far, with a backlash against leftism likely to dethrone Pelosi in the upcoming election.)

Yes, of course we'd like a POTUS younger and more clever than Biden, but Biden is hugely better than alternatives (e.g. any Republican) and rather electable — Electability is the single most important trait for a candidate.

(One area where POTUS brain-power is hugely important is emergency military response. What should POTUS do when awoken at 3 AM to learn that Russia has exploded nuclear device(s)? Since I don't know the answer to that question myself, I won't second-guess the efficacy of Biden's possible response.)

 

[bilby]

For all the faults and flaws of our peculiar system of government, the USA has managed to last over 200 years, without collapse or major structural change.

Only if I have fallen through a space-time discontinuity and arrived in the year 2065, or later.

The USA is using a variant on the Westminster bicameral system, with a President standing in place of the crown.

It's not the oldest system, it's not an original system, and it's not even the only such system currently in use worldwide.

And it's sure as shit not a beacon of democracy, even if we were to agree that democracy is necessarily a good thing.

 

[Gospel]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

Lots of lyrical waxing bub. What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Winston Churchill claims to quote someone, but I think he was being modest when he said,

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...

For all the faults and flaws of our peculiar system of government, the USA has managed to last over 200 years, without collapse or major structural change. We have essentially, the oldest operating system on the the planet. There should be credit due for that, at least.

Any change, whether for the good or the bad, will always be a compromise which can't please everybody, and at times, probably nobody as well, but is always preferred to the alternatives of the moment.

Nice. So WTF do you think about ending pay to win politics?

 

[Bronzeage]

For all the faults and flaws of our peculiar system of government, the USA has managed to last over 200 years, without collapse or major structural change.

Only if I have fallen through a space-time discontinuity and arrived in the year 2065, or later.

The USA is using a variant on the Westminster bicameral system, with a President standing in place of the crown.

It's not the oldest system, it's not an original system, and it's not even the only such system currently in use worldwide.

And it's sure as shit not a beacon of democracy, even if we were to agree that democracy is necessarily a good thing.

I didn't say it was perfect or original. The basic structure was forged in the late 1780s and it's still pretty much the same. At that time, most of Europe had hereditary monarchies which wielded true political power. Of those remaining, they're tourist attractions.

 

[rousseau]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

Yea, it's generally a good idea to work with the world as it actually exists, instead of an imaginary should. Ideals are great, until they're impractical or nonsensical.

 

[Gospel]

What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Great idea!

How would you go about removing the pay to win from your politics? Rhetorical question, of course. You know bloody well, no matter which party you vote for, or whether you vote at all, you'll either get a Republican or a Democrat government in the next term. And the term after that. And the term after that. Neither will remove the pay to win from politics. So what will you do about it?

As far as elections are concerned, there are only two options: Vote for The Really Bad Party, or Vote for The Not Quite AS Bad Party.

In Australia we are in a similar situation. No matter who we vote for, the next government will be formed by either the Labor Party or the conservative Liberal/National Party coalition. One big difference is having an instant runoff system. A vote for a minor party is not a vote thrown away. We can vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Anarchist Party, if that is our first preference. When their candidates get nowhere, we can be confident that our vote goes to the less evil of the only two options that have an actual chance of forming the next government.

Make it an indefinite Felony for past and present government officials (top to bottom) to accept any payment other than from Tax payers through Federal and State government. Retired (or voted out) officials remain on the Government's generous payroll for life and retain appropriate benefits and protections. This is the sacrifice we ought to make to safeguard and uphold the US constitution.

 

[Jarhyn]

What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Great idea!

How would you go about removing the pay to win from your politics? Rhetorical question, of course. You know bloody well, no matter which party you vote for, or whether you vote at all, you'll either get a Republican or a Democrat government in the next term. And the term after that. And the term after that. Neither will remove the pay to win from politics. So what will you do about it?

As far as elections are concerned, there are only two options: Vote for The Really Bad Party, or Vote for The Not Quite AS Bad Party.

In Australia we are in a similar situation. No matter who we vote for, the next government will be formed by either the Labor Party or the conservative Liberal/National Party coalition. One big difference is having an instant runoff system. A vote for a minor party is not a vote thrown away. We can vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Anarchist Party, if that is our first preference. When their candidates get nowhere, we can be confident that our vote goes to the less evil of the only two options that have an actual chance of forming the next government.

Make it an indefinite Felony for past and present government officials (top to bottom) to accept any payment other than from Tax payers through Federal and State government. Retired (or voted out) officials remain on the Government's generous payroll for life and retain appropriate benefits and protections. This is the sacrifice we ought to make to safeguard and uphold the US constitution.

Hello! Are you my phase delayed reflection?

I love your suggestion so much I made it myself a few years ago. I don't think it's wrong, but I do think it will require watering the tree to make it happen.

 

[Gospel]

What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

Great idea!

How would you go about removing the pay to win from your politics? Rhetorical question, of course. You know bloody well, no matter which party you vote for, or whether you vote at all, you'll either get a Republican or a Democrat government in the next term. And the term after that. And the term after that. Neither will remove the pay to win from politics. So what will you do about it?

As far as elections are concerned, there are only two options: Vote for The Really Bad Party, or Vote for The Not Quite AS Bad Party.

In Australia we are in a similar situation. No matter who we vote for, the next government will be formed by either the Labor Party or the conservative Liberal/National Party coalition. One big difference is having an instant runoff system. A vote for a minor party is not a vote thrown away. We can vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Anarchist Party, if that is our first preference. When their candidates get nowhere, we can be confident that our vote goes to the less evil of the only two options that have an actual chance of forming the next government.

Make it an indefinite Felony for past and present government officials (top to bottom) to accept any payment other than from Tax payers through Federal and State government. Retired (or voted out) officials remain on the Government's generous payroll for life and retain appropriate benefits and protections. This is the sacrifice we ought to make to safeguard and uphold the US constitution.

Hello! Are you my phase delayed reflection?

I love your suggestion so much I made it myself a few years ago. I don't think it's wrong, but I do think it will require watering the tree to make it happen.

To my knowledge there were attempts to move towards that direction, however lack luster they are they're still useful. For example the Civil Service Reform Act and current campaign financing laws. They just stop short of out right banning pay to win politics because (DUH) the people we'd need to actually ban it are the same people accepting it.

 

[bilby]

Wow, yall really touchy. I didn't say "don't vote for demarcates!". I described the system as I see it and think it sucks. Voting for Biden is the best option. I agree. Should he be the best option? Hell no. Yipikaye MF.

Sucks relative to what?

I am ears for a better sytem that takes into account real world cranky and emotional illogical humans.

Educarion, material goods for the masses, individual freedoms, communications, and global travel is unorecdented in history.

When I look at a problem I'd go to a white board and write two columns, pro and con.

If you amke a value judgemt on where we are now you have to consder history and what is prccally achievable with humns ruling themselves.

There is an inherent problem in rule by the people. The founders knew it and set three checks and balances. SCOTUS,POTUS, and Congress. They set a process for constitutional change.


Any practical alternatives on the scale of the USA and all its diversity in culture, religion, and political views? I don't see one.

The EU. Bigger and better than the USA. Also massively more diverse in every one of your three categories.

 

[Gospel]

The old saying applies, you are eiter part of the solution or part of the problem.

People that quote old sayings without applying their lessons puzzle me. How long do you plan on voting for the lessor evil before you realize that lesser evil =/= good? Hmm?

 

[Tigers!]

Make it an indefinite Felony for past and present government officials (top to bottom) to accept any payment other than from Tax payers through Federal and State government. Retired (or voted out) officials remain on the Government's generous payroll for life and retain appropriate benefits and protections. This is the sacrifice we ought to make to safeguard and uphold the US constitution.

In Australia there are mumblings on occasion about how much it costs to maintain past PMs in a certain style. If my memory is correct we currently have 7 former PMs (imagine how many the UK must have now). The one out to pasture for the longest is Paul Keating - left Parliament in 1996. He still is paid a parliamentary stipend, an office, staff etc. Why does he and the others require the office esp. if you left parliament >10 years ago?

 

[Tigers!]

What do you think about removing the pay to win from our politics?

In Australia we are in a similar situation. No matter who we vote for, the next government will be formed by either the Labor Party or the conservative Liberal/National Party coalition. One big difference is having an instant runoff system. A vote for a minor party is not a vote thrown away. We can vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Anarchist Party, if that is our first preference. When their candidates get nowhere, we can be confident that our vote goes to the less evil of the only two options that have an actual chance of forming the next government.

I really miss parties like the one underlined. They provided a slightly more serious option to some of the current parliamentary inhabitants.
The Sun-ripened tomato party, the Party Party party, and the Pirate party are sadly missed.

 

[Swammerdami]

I largely agree with your sentiments about politicians' money; But the link between wealth and political power is not easy to fix. It should be illegal for a legislator to "switch to opposite team" and become a lobbyist. But the link between wealth and power is hard to remedy. Great leaders become instant millionaires from books and speeches. The British PM is now a billionaire's son-in-law. The revered George Washington was born into one of the wealthiest American families of his day. JFK was the son of an allegedly corrupt rich man, yet is widely admired.

For all its flaws, American democracy has had successes. Many other democracies were inspired by America. Beginning with reforms and the labor movement in the early 1900's, America forged an unprecedented middle class. In recent years, the U.S. has legalized gay marriage, legalized marijuana in many of the states, and taken steps toward the availability and affordability of health care. Baby steps? Yes, but that's how change comes. Giant steps are usually answered with backlash or counter-revolution. We will see such backlash vividly in the 2022 elections.

The old saying applies, you are eiter part of the solution or part of the problem.

People that quote old sayings without applying their lessons puzzle me. How long do you plan on voting for the lessor evil before you realize that lesser evil =/= good? Hmm?

Do not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Comparing the Ds and Rs in today's America is absurd.

Don't forget that, except for a few weeks in 2009 while Ted Kennedy was on his death-bed^*, no party in America has had filibuster-proof control since Carter in 1977-78 (and that Administration faced serious economic obstacles). (* - And even then, the DINO Joe Lieberman was the 60th vote. He had supported John McCain in the 2008 election, and voted only for a sabotaged version of Obamacare.) The Democrats have had to make do with baby steps, but slow progress can be made.

Rapid change, however well-intentioned, can work badly. The drug abuse, poverty and mental illness degrading cities like Seattle is testament that conservative values have their place too.

It's frustrating for those who want big rapid change to see only slow change. But good changes made slowly are better than bad change, and that's what the Rs offer.

For all their faults the Ds must have our strong support during this very critical time.