The universe is proof of god!

[skepticalbip]

I don't claim there was a before the universe began. My claim is that the universe had a beginning,

This much is your belief. You have offered nothing to explain or support it but it is your belief.

which is what most cosmologists claim.

This last bit is a pure bull shit.

 

[Wiploc]

There's a fair bit of information about the Plank era, but we are still trying to nail it down.

And if we don't? Then we're screwed?

Quite likely. We may splinter into different factions (although that would go against the grain).

Don't pick at the metaphor. It tends to scab.

 

[atrib]

"...Christians say the existence of the universe is really mysterious to them

They do not.
See the 1st Chapter of Genesis.

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

 

[Underseer]

"...Christians say the existence of the universe is really mysterious to them

They do not.
See the 1st Chapter of Genesis.

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

That gets to the bottom of it.

Christians and Muslims are people who want the satisfaction of having answers without doing any of the work to find out if any of their answers are actually correct.

Once they have answers, they will do everything they can to cling to the beliefs, even in the face of contrary evidence.

They think having answers is all that matters, who cares if any of the answers are correct? As long as you have answers, you are wise and people should look up to you in wonder.

 

[Copernicus]

I think you'll find a wide range of attitudes and opinions among believers. Not all are angry, unreasonable people who look down on others. Same goes for nonbelievers. We should be careful not to build up stereotypes of each other on the basis of these polemical discussions.

 

[Rhea]

I think you'll find a wide range of attitudes and opinions among believers. Not all are angry, unreasonable people who look down on others. Same goes for nonbelievers. We should be careful not to build up stereotypes of each other on the basis of these polemical discussions.

This is interesting to think about. Because I do have lots of friends who are very kind and sweet and reasonable.... and yet, they _cannot_ handle this discussion. Even they tend to become unsweet and unreasonable in a hurry when you ask, "but why? How?" and they resort to "It's just my belief, okay!? Stop attacking me!" As if asking why and how is an attack. It's crazy and I never see it coming.

 

[Keith&Co.]

As if asking why and how is an attack. It's crazy and I never see it coming.

wellllll, i have relatives who get trained up every Subday on how to bring atheists to Christ.
Attacking the weak or 'we don't know' parts of the scientific view is a big part of it.
Near as i can tell, my oart of the scriot is to play the part of the Professor in t he BIG DADDY Chick tract, where every time he says "don't know" he moves a step closer to admitting it's all hooey.

It may be that they think that's what you're trying to do.

 

[Rhea]

where every time he says "don't know" he moves a step closer to admitting it's all hooey.

It may be that they think that's what you're trying to do.

That’s a possibility. It’s weird, tho. Christians are so weird about the gaps.

 

[WAB]

"...Christians say the existence of the universe is really mysterious to them

They do not.
See the 1st Chapter of Genesis.

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

Yes, I'm sure that describes these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

And these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

 

[Juma]

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

Yes, I'm sure that describes these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

And these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

Since religion can be harsh on atheists we can ignore the muslim list and the first part of the christian. What remains is mostly few biologists etc so those lists really proves atribs point rather than yours...

 

[WAB]

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

Yes, I'm sure that describes these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

And these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

Since religion can be harsh on atheists we can ignore the muslim list and the first part of the christian. What remains is mostly few biologists etc so those lists really proves atribs point rather than yours...

Are you really in such total denial of obvious facts? The Wikipedia lists are just a tiny example. Statistics show that there are a high percentage of scientists in all disciplines who also are people of faith. NOT TO MENTION very highly intelligent people of faith in the humanities, the arts, and every other profession and field of endeavor.

I say this as an agnostic, not as a person of faith.

Heed what Cop says:

I think you'll find a wide range of attitudes and opinions among believers. Not all are angry, unreasonable people who look down on others. Same goes for nonbelievers. We should be careful not to build up stereotypes of each other on the basis of these polemical discussions.

 

[Juma]

Since religion can be harsh on atheists we can ignore the muslim list and the first part of the christian. What remains is mostly few biologists etc so those lists really proves atribs point rather than yours...

Are you really in such total denial of obvious facts? The Wikipedia lists are just a tiny example. Statistics show that there are a high percentage of scientists in all disciplines who also are people of faith. NOT TO MENTION very highly intelligent people of faith in the humanities, the arts, and every other profession and field of endeavor.

I say this as an agnostic, not as a person of faith.

Heed what Cop says:

I think you'll find a wide range of attitudes and opinions among believers. Not all are angry, unreasonable people who look down on others. Same goes for nonbelievers. We should be careful not to build up stereotypes of each other on the basis of these polemical discussions.

If the wikipedia lists where ”just a tiny example” why did you use it?
For fucks sake: Ben Carson is on that list... say no more.
All scientists I know (since studied and works in Uppsala they are a lot) are atheists.with the exception of a handfull historians, botanists and ... theologians.

 

[Lion IRC]

How many Hindu scientists are there in India?
How many Muslim scientists are there in Pakistan and Indonesia?
I bet they collectively outnumber the atheist scientists everywhere else.

 

[Juma]

How many Hindu scientists are there in India?
How many Muslim scientists are there in Pakistan and Indonesia?
I bet they collectively outnumber the atheist scientists everywhere else.

Thanks. You just made my point.

 

[Lion IRC]

Glad we agree

 

[atrib]

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

Yes, I'm sure that describes these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

And these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Why did you deliberately ignore this part of my post? Have any of the scientists on your list explained how god created the universe and everything in it? If not, it is a mystery. You have nothing but a hollow claim in an old compilation of stories written by anonymous people 2,000 years ago. Come back when you actually have some answers.

 

[WAB]

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Thank you.

What, you say you don't how he did it? Well, that's got to be a fucking mystery then, doesn't it? God works in mysterious ways, or "I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think".

Yes, I'm sure that describes these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

And these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Why did you deliberately ignore this part of my post? Have any of the scientists on your list explained how god created the universe and everything in it? If not, it is a mystery. You have nothing but a hollow claim in an old compilation of stories written by anonymous people 2,000 years ago. Come back when you actually have some answers.

You seem to have missed where I said I am agnostic. Please revisit post #471. You are probably assuming I'm a theist. No worries there, people cannot be expected to catch everything in a highly trafficked bulletin board.

I don't dispute the fact that theists cannot explain God or how God created the universe - that's a given; but atheists cannot explain how the universe came to be either, which is okay by me. I can deal with the mystery of it and don't require an explanation.

As you obviously didn't grasp: my objection to your post consisted in your stereotyping theists as a bunch of morons:

"I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think". - atrib

Sure, some theists fit that category, but there are far more who don't.

Juma has even gone so far as to deny that there are intelligent religious scientists, which is so obviously nonsensical a position that I'm surprised he has the audacity to argue for it in public.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

As David Hume pointed out, the concept of God creating the Universe is an analogy. But then we can have other analogies. Mankind sees large numbers of people creating things larger than themselves. Maybe then the analogy can be used to support the concept of polytheism. Or perhaps the Universe is organic like a carrot. It just grows itself. If all we have are analogies, not empirically proven evidence for God, why should I care about your choice of analogy?

 

[atrib]

And how did the Christian god create the universe? Please show your math and all supporting steps. Why did you deliberately ignore this part of my post? Have any of the scientists on your list explained how god created the universe and everything in it? If not, it is a mystery. You have nothing but a hollow claim in an old compilation of stories written by anonymous people 2,000 years ago. Come back when you actually have some answers.

You seem to have missed where I said I am agnostic. Please revisit post #471. You are probably assuming I'm a theist. No worries there, people cannot be expected to catch everything in a highly trafficked bulletin board.

I don't dispute the fact that theists cannot explain God or how God created the universe - that's a given; but atheists cannot explain how the universe came to be either, which is okay by me. I can deal with the mystery of it and don't require an explanation.

As you obviously didn't grasp: my objection to your post consisted in your stereotyping theists as a bunch of morons:

"I am too fucking dumb to learn physics and I failed high school math, so I am going to keep on pretending that my invisible super-friend created the universe, because it is so easy and I don't have to think". - atrib

Sure, some theists fit that category, but there are far more who don't.

Juma has even gone so far as to deny that there are intelligent religious scientists, which is so obviously nonsensical a position that I'm surprised he has the audacity to argue for it in public.

Very few scientists today working in the fields of biology and physics are religious. But I concede your point. You don't have to be stupid to believe in god. I just happen to live in the southern US where there are lot of stupid people who do believe in god. Who never graduated high school, but are certain that their god is their creator and savior. And you are stupid and untrustworthy because you have chosen to think for yourself, and reached the conclusion that the god stories aren't worth the paper they are printed on.