The universe is proof of god!

[Keith&Co.]

Will have to deal with previous posts later... "time" issue.

You still get the issues? We just read the online articles...

 

[Lion IRC]

God doesn't have to 'wait'.
He is in no hurry.

Parasites, predation, germs, viruses?
Just take a step back and imagine yourself to be Darwin/Attenborough/Dawkins.
These are incredible, indespensible beauties of nature.
God doesn't have to apologise for them.

Sorry. That does not get God off the hook.

You asked what is God waiting for.
I told you He isn't "waiting" for anything.
He isn't in any hurry.

All of this is exactly what we would expect from blind nature, evolution.

No. Sorry. You don't get to anthropomorphise evolution and 'splain how evolution is doing just what you would expect from the process that you (as a human) observed and labelled - evolution. Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Christianity and Judaism tell us that God will fix this after the Jews return to Jerusalem. Isaiah 11. A prophecy that did not come true.

Read that sentence back to yourself.
God will do something after something else.
Has not yet, isn't the same as did not or will not.

And if we ignore that, we must ask, why is that God dragging his heels?

Why are you fixated on God needing an alarm clock?
To God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day.

Of course all of that is religious delusion. Nature screams at us. "No perfectly good, kindly, loving, merciful God".

Listen to yourself.
Nature screams?
What are you a Wiccan?

 

[Lion IRC]

"God, how long is a million years to you?"
"About a minute"

"God, how much is a million dollars to you?"
"It's like a penny."

"God, may I have a penny?"
"Sure. In a minute"

 

[James Brown]

I'm picturing a police officer watching a man rape a woman.

"What are you waiting for?" shouts a bystander. "Arrest that man! Save that woman!"

"I'm not waiting for anything," explains the cop. "I am never in a hurry."

"But he's raping her!"

"Yes," says the cop. "I know that perfectly well--I am a trained police officer, don't forget. And while it is unfortunate that the man has made an evil decision, I can't just stop him without interfering with his free will. He has to see the error of his ways--otherwise he'll never learn, and that would make him into a robot."

The cop sighs heavily.

"When the man is gone," he says, "I'll go over there and comfort the poor woman. I'll tell her that I love her and that I am sorry she's suffering, and I'll remind her that someday men won't rape women ever again, so she'll have something good to look forward to. Later, she'll testify that her belief in the strength of the local police force has helped her recover from such an awful tragedy, and her testimony will inspire others. Won't that be better than me just arresting some idiot? Where's the long-term payoff in that?"

 

[Keith&Co.]

"When the man is gone," he says, "I'll go over there and comfort the poor woman.

I will tell her that people across the internet sent their hopes and prayers. And I heard them.

 

[Underseer]

The bottom line is that we know certain things are manufactured because we have evidence of their manufacture. Lion just wants to be able to arbitrarily point to things and declare them Created Things based on[ent]hellip[/ent] fuzzy feelings? Confirmation bias? I'm not really certain.

 

[Underseer]

I'm picturing a police officer watching a man rape a woman.

"What are you waiting for?" shouts a bystander. "Arrest that man! Save that woman!"

"I'm not waiting for anything," explains the cop. "I am never in a hurry."

"But he's raping her!"

"Yes," says the cop. "I know that perfectly well--I am a trained police officer, don't forget. And while it is unfortunate that the man has made an evil decision, I can't just stop him without interfering with his free will. He has to see the error of his ways--otherwise he'll never learn, and that would make him into a robot."

The cop sighs heavily.

"When the man is gone," he says, "I'll go over there and comfort the poor woman. I'll tell her that I love her and that I am sorry she's suffering, and I'll remind her that someday men won't rape women ever again, so she'll have something good to look forward to. Later, she'll testify that her belief in the strength of the local police force has helped her recover from such an awful tragedy, and her testimony will inspire others. Won't that be better than me just arresting some idiot? Where's the long-term payoff in that?"

I'm stealing that!

 

[Lion IRC]

I'm never surprised by the hypocrisy of folks who want God to selectively intervene and stop someone else's sinfulness....but not me. I'm not sinning God. Stay out of my private life God.

 

[bilby]

I'm never surprised by the hypocrisy of folks who want God to selectively intervene and stop someone else's sinfulness....but not me. I'm not sinning God. Stay out of my private life God.

Yeah, like those hypocrites who call the cops if they suspect a rape, murder, or robbery are in progress, but not when they themselves fail to make a complete stop at a stop sign, or do 75 in a 70 zone to overtake a truck.

Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy!!

 

[bilby]

Or maybe people over the age of five typically know that laws are not absolute and equal; And that what matters is morality, not obedience.

But religious people are prohibited from such nuance and maturity. So their imaginary friend must be too.

 

[Copernicus]

I'm never surprised by the hypocrisy of folks who want God to selectively intervene and stop someone else's sinfulness....but not me. I'm not sinning God. Stay out of my private life God.

Unlike the police, who tend to be a bit more reliable about showing up, God waits until the miscreants die. Then he springs out and shouts "Gotcha!" and "Too late! You're toast!" Can you imagine the look on the guy's face? God must get a kick out of it every time.

 

[James Brown]

I'm picturing a police officer watching a man rape a woman.

"What are you waiting for?" shouts a bystander. "Arrest that man! Save that woman!"

"I'm never surprised" says the cop, "when people insist that I stop other people's evil actions, but never their own."

"I'm not raping anyone!" shouts the bystander.

"Such hypocrisy," says the cop, leaning against a wall and continuing to watch.

 

[Underseer]

I'm never surprised by the hypocrisy of folks who want God to selectively intervene and stop someone else's sinfulness....but not me. I'm not sinning God. Stay out of my private life God.

You have to prove God exists before you can make any claims about God doing anything at all, otherwise there is no difference between you and two Star Wars nerds arguing about the color of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. Come on, we've been over this before.

 

[Random Person]

I've run into countless variations on the argument presented in the subject/title of this thread, and I'm sure many of you have as well.

Claim: the universe was farted into existence by a giant space goat
Evidence: the universe exists
Conclusion: therefore, the giant space goat exists and created the universe

The universe itself proves the existence of the giant space goat and His Divine Flatulence. You goat-haters are aware that the universe exists, so you have no excuse for denying the existence of the giant space goat!

Here's the problem: in order to be meaningful, evidence needs to exclusively support one explanation, or at least allow us to eliminate one or more competing explanations. Every explanation for the existence of the universe results in the universe, so the existence of the universe is "supporting evidence" for all possible explanations, including any explanations I make up in the future.

The existence of the universe is only evidence that the universe exists. It is not proof of giant space goats nor invisible anthropomorphic gods nor trickster aliens nor anything else.

Unrelated aside: If anyone thinks it sounds weird that the above claim is that the universe was farted into existence, note that the Bible claims that the universe was spoken into existence. I mean, why not sung into existence or danced into existence or fluffed into existence or thrown into existence or donned into existence or fetched into existence or signed into existence? What is it about magical incantations that makes that particular verb sound more plausible to believers and the others less plausible?

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

 

[Underseer]

I've run into countless variations on the argument presented in the subject/title of this thread, and I'm sure many of you have as well.

Claim: the universe was farted into existence by a giant space goat
Evidence: the universe exists
Conclusion: therefore, the giant space goat exists and created the universe

The universe itself proves the existence of the giant space goat and His Divine Flatulence. You goat-haters are aware that the universe exists, so you have no excuse for denying the existence of the giant space goat!

Here's the problem: in order to be meaningful, evidence needs to exclusively support one explanation, or at least allow us to eliminate one or more competing explanations. Every explanation for the existence of the universe results in the universe, so the existence of the universe is "supporting evidence" for all possible explanations, including any explanations I make up in the future.

The existence of the universe is only evidence that the universe exists. It is not proof of giant space goats nor invisible anthropomorphic gods nor trickster aliens nor anything else.

Unrelated aside: If anyone thinks it sounds weird that the above claim is that the universe was farted into existence, note that the Bible claims that the universe was spoken into existence. I mean, why not sung into existence or danced into existence or fluffed into existence or thrown into existence or donned into existence or fetched into existence or signed into existence? What is it about magical incantations that makes that particular verb sound more plausible to believers and the others less plausible?

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

The universe is proof that the universe was created by a goat fart, therefore I proved you wrong before you even responded! Do you even read?

The previous was a parody of Christian/Muslim apologetics. I am not actually taking that position. Strictly speaking, we can't even be certain that the phrase "before the universe" even makes any sense. For all we know, "before time" makes no more sense than "outside of space," which is to say none. So unless the spacetime continuum of our universe is contained in another inaccessible spacetime continuum (e.g. as per the Holographic Principle), then we cannot rightly say that the universe was caused because the cause would have to happen before the effect, and in this case the effect includes time as we know it.

 

[Random Person]

I've run into countless variations on the argument presented in the subject/title of this thread, and I'm sure many of you have as well.

Claim: the universe was farted into existence by a giant space goat
Evidence: the universe exists
Conclusion: therefore, the giant space goat exists and created the universe

The universe itself proves the existence of the giant space goat and His Divine Flatulence. You goat-haters are aware that the universe exists, so you have no excuse for denying the existence of the giant space goat!

Here's the problem: in order to be meaningful, evidence needs to exclusively support one explanation, or at least allow us to eliminate one or more competing explanations. Every explanation for the existence of the universe results in the universe, so the existence of the universe is "supporting evidence" for all possible explanations, including any explanations I make up in the future.

The existence of the universe is only evidence that the universe exists. It is not proof of giant space goats nor invisible anthropomorphic gods nor trickster aliens nor anything else.

Unrelated aside: If anyone thinks it sounds weird that the above claim is that the universe was farted into existence, note that the Bible claims that the universe was spoken into existence. I mean, why not sung into existence or danced into existence or fluffed into existence or thrown into existence or donned into existence or fetched into existence or signed into existence? What is it about magical incantations that makes that particular verb sound more plausible to believers and the others less plausible?

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

The universe is proof that the universe was created by a goat fart, therefore I proved you wrong before you even responded! Do you even read?

The previous was a parody of Christian/Muslim apologetics. I am not actually taking that position. Strictly speaking, we can't even be certain that the phrase "before the universe" even makes any sense. For all we know, "before time" makes no more sense than "outside of space," which is to say none. So unless the spacetime continuum of our universe is contained in another inaccessible spacetime continuum (e.g. as per the Holographic Principle), then we cannot rightly say that the universe was caused because the cause would have to happen before the effect, and in this case the effect includes time as we know it.

I think you have confused yourself.

 

[bilby]

I've run into countless variations on the argument presented in the subject/title of this thread, and I'm sure many of you have as well.

Claim: the universe was farted into existence by a giant space goat
Evidence: the universe exists
Conclusion: therefore, the giant space goat exists and created the universe

The universe itself proves the existence of the giant space goat and His Divine Flatulence. You goat-haters are aware that the universe exists, so you have no excuse for denying the existence of the giant space goat!

Here's the problem: in order to be meaningful, evidence needs to exclusively support one explanation, or at least allow us to eliminate one or more competing explanations. Every explanation for the existence of the universe results in the universe, so the existence of the universe is "supporting evidence" for all possible explanations, including any explanations I make up in the future.

The existence of the universe is only evidence that the universe exists. It is not proof of giant space goats nor invisible anthropomorphic gods nor trickster aliens nor anything else.

Unrelated aside: If anyone thinks it sounds weird that the above claim is that the universe was farted into existence, note that the Bible claims that the universe was spoken into existence. I mean, why not sung into existence or danced into existence or fluffed into existence or thrown into existence or donned into existence or fetched into existence or signed into existence? What is it about magical incantations that makes that particular verb sound more plausible to believers and the others less plausible?

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

How do you know? They are at least as plausible as gods that existed prior to the universe.

 

[skepticalbip]

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

How do you know? They are at least as plausible as gods that existed prior to the universe.

I would say more plausible. There is good hard evidence that goats existed long, long before the Biblical creation of the universe six or seven thousand years ago. I have seen no evidence of farts that long ago but just reasoning would lead to the assumption that farts existed long before goats.

 

[Random Person]

I've run into countless variations on the argument presented in the subject/title of this thread, and I'm sure many of you have as well.

Claim: the universe was farted into existence by a giant space goat
Evidence: the universe exists
Conclusion: therefore, the giant space goat exists and created the universe

The universe itself proves the existence of the giant space goat and His Divine Flatulence. You goat-haters are aware that the universe exists, so you have no excuse for denying the existence of the giant space goat!

Here's the problem: in order to be meaningful, evidence needs to exclusively support one explanation, or at least allow us to eliminate one or more competing explanations. Every explanation for the existence of the universe results in the universe, so the existence of the universe is "supporting evidence" for all possible explanations, including any explanations I make up in the future.

The existence of the universe is only evidence that the universe exists. It is not proof of giant space goats nor invisible anthropomorphic gods nor trickster aliens nor anything else.

Unrelated aside: If anyone thinks it sounds weird that the above claim is that the universe was farted into existence, note that the Bible claims that the universe was spoken into existence. I mean, why not sung into existence or danced into existence or fluffed into existence or thrown into existence or donned into existence or fetched into existence or signed into existence? What is it about magical incantations that makes that particular verb sound more plausible to believers and the others less plausible?

Goats or farts didn't exist prior to the universe.

How do you know? They are at least as plausible as gods that existed prior to the universe.

Goats and farts are material things that exist in the universe. The universe couldn't have created itself.

 

[skepticalbip]

How do you know? They are at least as plausible as gods that existed prior to the universe.

Goats and farts are material things that exist in the universe. The universe couldn't have created itself.

How could you possibly know that the universe couldn't have created itself?