The Wall

[TV and credit cards]

Maybe TSA will be the next to walk out. Sixteen dollar an hour jobs. How long can they hold out?

 

[zorq]

Trump admits to using extortion for his wall

Trump walks out of shutdown meeting.

[Schumer] at one point asked Trump, "Why won't you open the government and stop hurting people?"
Trump responded bluntly, "Because then you won't give me what I want."

Trump is a terrorist. He is deliberately hurting US citizens to achieve his political goals.

 

[Patooka]

Master deal maker my arse:

Donald Trump walks out of border wall meeting, prolonging government shutdown.

Democratic Senate leader Chuck Schumer accused the President of having a temper tantrum during the meeting.

"He asked [House] Speaker Pelosi, 'Will you agree to my wall?' she said no," Mr Schumer said.

"And he just got up and said, 'Then we have nothing to discuss,' and he just walked out.

"Again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way."

And the counter point:

Vice-President Mike Pence said Democrats were "unwilling to even negotiate" with Republicans.

"The President walked into the room and passed out candy," he said.

How unreasonable of the Democrats. Even kids know when a strange grumpy old man offers you candy, you're expected to give him whatever he wants. That's how it works, right?

 

[fast]

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out".

Why is race believed to be a motive? Hell, in today’s world (and in some circumstances) racists are hardly even motivated by race.

 

[barbos]

More data: https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs38/38661/movement.htm

They don't actually break down how much comes through ports of entry and how much comes through the desert. But a wall isn't going to stop contraband that can handle being launched via catapult...

Well, double wall can, cameras can too. The reason I asked for proof is because it's clear to me that going through desert is clearly easier and less risky route for drug trafficking than trying hide drugs in the car and hoping US border people don't see it.

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

 

[starwater]

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

Let’s see, I remember making potato guns as a kid, golly those things could shoot a potato really high and really far. Hmm, those drug dealers could use those to shoot their drugs over the wall.....

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

Let’s see, I remember making potato guns as a kid, golly those things could shoot a potato really high and really far. Hmm, those drug dealers could use those to shoot their drugs over the wall.....

Most trump supporters think that if you build a wall then you save lots of money because you don't need to guard the border anymore.

It's hard to have an intelligent conversation with stupid.

 

[barbos]

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

Let’s see, I remember making potato guns as a kid, golly those things could shoot a potato really high and really far. Hmm, those drug dealers could use those to shoot their drugs over the wall.....

Dude, you are not making any sense.

 

[ruby sparks]

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

Let’s see, I remember making potato guns as a kid, golly those things could shoot a potato really high and really far. Hmm, those drug dealers could use those to shoot their drugs over the wall.....

Or drones, or boats, or planes, or tunnels, or....

The bulk of the drugs are already coming through road checkpoints at POEs anyway.

 

[barbos]

Or drones, or boats, or planes, or tunnels, or....

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

The bulk of the drugs are already coming through road checkpoints at POEs anyway.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But Trump has been branded a racist since the beginning largely for asking for the wall, because its purpose is to "keep the brown people out".

Actually, the racism thing springs from his inability to immediately dismiss David Duke (even after having done so a long time ago), his comments about a Hispanic (and therefore Mexican in his book judge), his "shit hole" nations comment, surrounding himself with bigots like Bannon and Miller, and his anti non-white immigration policies.

Regardless, the "racism" issue here is a red herring. Trump is standing in a ditch, telling people it is a mountain, and the art of the deal dude apparently can't negeotiate without an army of lawyers flanking against a contractor. Trump is being exposed as a massive fraud and yet the brown shirts are even more proud now.

 

[ZiprHead]

Or drones, or boats, or planes, or tunnels, or....

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

The bulk of the drugs are already coming through road checkpoints at POEs anyway.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

I read recently that 97% of the drugs come through legal POEs. Cars, trucks, and shipping containers. I'll see if I can find it.

Also read a lot of the fentanyl is coming from China through the mail. It can be ordered on the internet.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Have you ever spent any time in the desert SW? Cuz this kinda of ignorant assertion makes me certain the answer is no.

What is ignorant is your assumption that one has to literally walk through the desert to bring drugs over border.

If it's so damn easy, I see a great money making opportunity in your future. You don't even need to do it yourself, just tell the cartels about your great plan and get your consultants fee.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

I read recently that 97% of the drugs come through legal POEs. Cars, trucks, and shipping containers. I'll see if I can find it.

Also read a lot of the fentanyl is coming from China through the mail. It can be ordered on the internet.

barbos is like trump (in so many ways, apparently). When someone contradicts him, he demands proof, yet has provided none to back up his assertions. Don't play the game.

 

[barbos]

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

I read recently that 97% of the drugs come through legal POEs. Cars, trucks, and shipping containers. I'll see if I can find it.

That's all I asked.
I remember underground tunnels were a big thing in 2000s. Don't know if it is still is.
And small planes in the ~90s.

If it's so damn easy, I see a great money making opportunity in your future. You don't even need to do it yourself, just tell the cartels about your great plan and get your consultants fee.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

I read recently that 97% of the drugs come through legal POEs. Cars, trucks, and shipping containers. I'll see if I can find it.

Also read a lot of the fentanyl is coming from China through the mail. It can be ordered on the internet.

barbos is like trump (in so many ways, apparently). When someone contradicts him, he demands proof, yet has provided none to back up his assertions. Don't play the game.

LOL, the irony. I merely asked for confirmation and it was you who went ape shit.

 

[Politesse]

That's all I asked.
I remember underground tunnels were a big thing in 2000s. Don't know if it is still is.

They found one in San Luis last year that exited into the kitchen of a Kentucky Fried Chicken.

They also found an uncompleted one in March, which when completed was supposed to have a solar-powered railway to ferry drugs remotely.

Yes, tunnels are still a thing; actually border patrol thinks they are probably expanding since they've been cracking down on the border cities more. Such tunnels are easy to dig and hard to find.

In one example, a tunnel was found that crossed a similar barrier to the one Trump is proposing for the whole border:

The agents struggle to stay ahead of the digging. On Sept. 19, Mexican officials unearthed another tunnel, starting from a private home in the town of Jacume, 60 miles east of Tijuana. Although the tunnel still lacked an exit into the U.S., it did succeed in crossing the border, despite the presence of a 16-foot-high steel bollard wall.

The article mentions about 200 tunnels since 1990, and presumably they have not all been found.

 

[poster]

That's all I asked.
I remember underground tunnels were a big thing in 2000s. Don't know if it is still is.

They found one in San Luis last year that exited into the kitchen of a Kentucky Fried Chicken.

They also found an uncompleted one in March, which when completed was supposed to have a solar-powered railway to ferry drugs remotely.

Yes, tunnels are still a thing; actually border patrol thinks they are probably expanding since they've been cracking down on the border cities more. Such tunnels are easy to dig and hard to find.

In one example, a tunnel was found that crossed a similar barrier to the one Trump is proposing for the whole border:

The agents struggle to stay ahead of the digging. On Sept. 19, Mexican officials unearthed another tunnel, starting from a private home in the town of Jacume, 60 miles east of Tijuana. Although the tunnel still lacked an exit into the U.S., it did succeed in crossing the border, despite the presence of a 16-foot-high steel bollard wall.

The article mentions about 200 tunnels since 1990, and presumably they have not all been found.

I suppose they will when the land under their feet collapses.

 

[Elixir]

Lol! Who told you that? I call bullshit.
Read and learn: The Coast Guard is catching more drug-running subs, but most 'very stealthy' narco subs are probably going undetected (October 2018)




According to the DEA, Colombia produced as much as 910 metric tons of cocaine in 2016, a 32 percent increase from 2015. By some estimates, one third of that travels via submarines

If that estimate is off by 90%, and only 30 tons of cocaine come in that way, how many poor schlubs with backpacks does that equal?

Read your link. Says subs go to Mexico and/or Central America. Long way from US border. Then overland. Then? Obviously from what you all say the inspection on land should be improved. Slow the traffic down, what's the hurry, who loses? "American" firms like GM that do their manufacturing in Mexico? Oh dear, what a shame. Banana growers? People would learn to live with that.

I re-read both links. There's a map showing routes from SA to Mexico and "DEA estimated at least 30% to 40% of drugs coming to the US were moving on narco subs, but authorities were likely only intercepting 5% of those vessels. "

Maybe I missed what you're talking about?

 

[funinspace]

Yes, all different ways which were used at one time or another, not just walking through deserts with a bag of drugs as some suggested.

That's where I asked for data confirming that

I read recently that 97% of the drugs come through legal POEs. Cars, trucks, and shipping containers. I'll see if I can find it.

Also read a lot of the fentanyl is coming from China through the mail. It can be ordered on the internet.

Here is a PDF from the DEA federales that might help arguing with children...though they still don't break down the methods of importation in percentages.
https://defenseoversight.wola.org/primarydocs/161206_dea_ndta.pdf

Some snippets at page 7:

The most common method employed by Mexican TCOs involves transporting drugs in vehicles through U.S. ports of entry (POEs). Illicit drugs are smuggled into the United States in concealed compartments within passenger vehicles or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor trailers. Increasingly, Mexican TCOs are transporting illicit drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, dissolved in liquids across the SWB.

Other cross-border smuggling techniques employed by Mexican TCOs include the use of subterranean tunnels, which originate in Mexico and lead into safe-houses on the U.S. side of the border. These tunnels are primarily used to smuggle ton quantities of marijuana, though there are instances of other illicit drugs commingled in these shipments. Tunnels seized and destroyed along the SWB are primarily found in California and Arizona,

And finally the desert...

Mexican TCOs also transport illicit drugs to the United States aboard commercial cargo trains and passenger buses. To a lesser extent, Mexican TCOs use small speedboats off the coast of California. Mexican TCOs also rely on traditional drug smuggling methods such as the use of backpackers, or “mules,” using clandestine land trails to cross remote areas of the SWB into the United States.

And lastly:

Mexican TCOs exploit various aerial methods to transport illicit drugs across the SWB. These methods include the use of ultralight aircraft and unmanned aerial systems (UASs), or “drones,” to conduct air drops. Ultralights are primarily used to transport marijuana shipments, depositing the drugs in close proximity to the SWB.

 

[barbos]

Here is a PDF from the DEA federales that might help arguing with children...though they still don't break down the methods of importation in percentages.
https://defenseoversight.wola.org/primarydocs/161206_dea_ndta.pdf

Some snippets at page 7:

The most common method employed by Mexican TCOs involves transporting drugs in vehicles through U.S. ports of entry (POEs). Illicit drugs are smuggled into the United States in concealed compartments within passenger vehicles or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor trailers. Increasingly, Mexican TCOs are transporting illicit drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, dissolved in liquids across the SWB.

"Most common" != "most important in terms of amount of drugs"
You can bust 10 cars with 100kg in each, or you can bust 1 tunnel with 10 tons in it and god knows how much have been transferred through it already. Most common would be cars but not most efficient.

I need numbers.

 

[barbos]

I re-read both links. There's a map showing routes from SA to Mexico and "DEA estimated at least 30% to 40% of drugs coming to the US were moving on narco subs, but authorities were likely only intercepting 5% of those vessels. "

That would certainly be inconsistent with "97% of the drugs come through legal POE" claim.