The Wall

[Tom Sawyer]

I re-read both links. There's a map showing routes from SA to Mexico and "DEA estimated at least 30% to 40% of drugs coming to the US were moving on narco subs, but authorities were likely only intercepting 5% of those vessels. "

That would certainly be inconsistent with "97% of the drugs come through legal POE" claim.

How would it be inconsistent? You saw the related map. The submarine routes take them to Mexico and then they go through to the US from there. At no point is anybody walking through a desert with a backpack or any other weird situation where a wall would have some form of relevance.

 

[barbos]

I re-read both links. There's a map showing routes from SA to Mexico and "DEA estimated at least 30% to 40% of drugs coming to the US were moving on narco subs, but authorities were likely only intercepting 5% of those vessels. "

That would certainly be inconsistent with "97% of the drugs come through legal POE" claim.

How would it be inconsistent? You saw the related map. The submarine routes take them to Mexico and then they go through to the US from there. At no point is anybody walking through a desert with a backpack or any other weird situation where a wall would have some form of relevance.

I don't care about desert and walls in it. I questioned a claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry which is what Cuomo said.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I have a question about Dear Leader's Tues. night speech. Full disclosure - I already find this thread too long to read word for word, so if this has been covered previously, my mistake. My question deals with the following paragraph from the speech:
The border wall would very quickly pay for itself. The cost of illegal drugs exceeds $500 billion a year -- vastly more than the $5.7 billion we have requested from Congress. The wall will also be paid for, indirectly, by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico.
For starters, let's forget the last sentence -- I doubt if many Trumporrhoids actually believe that statement. But look at the first two sentences. What is the literal meaning of that? I haven't heard this parsed in the media, outside of Steven Colbert playing the clip and saying, 'I think I just heard the President say that we're going to push drugs to pay for the wall.'
Well....what else does it mean? How is the street value of confiscated drugs relevant to the cost of putting up a wall? I'm missing something -- he can't be saying what Colbert stated, but he really can't be saying that if we confiscate $500 billion worth of drugs, we've somehow made ourselves $500 billion richer. Any takers?

 

[Politesse]

I have a question about Dear Leader's Tues. night speech. Full disclosure - I already find this thread too long to read word for word, so if this has been covered previously, my mistake. My question deals with the following paragraph from the speech:
The border wall would very quickly pay for itself. The cost of illegal drugs exceeds $500 billion a year -- vastly more than the $5.7 billion we have requested from Congress. The wall will also be paid for, indirectly, by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico.
For starters, let's forget the last sentence -- I doubt if many Trumporrhoids actually believe that statement. But look at the first two sentences. What is the literal meaning of that? I haven't heard this parsed in the media, outside of Steven Colbert playing the clip and saying, 'I think I just heard the President say that we're going to push drugs to pay for the wall.'
Well....what else does it mean? How is the street value of confiscated drugs relevant to the cost of putting up a wall? I'm missing something -- he can't be saying what Colbert stated, but he really can't be saying that if we confiscate $500 billion worth of drugs, we've somehow made ourselves $500 billion richer. Any takers?

I thought he meant the cost of fighting the drug war. Not the price of the drugs themselves.

 

[ideologyhunter]

But in that case, why cite the value of the drugs? Why wouldn't he cite the cost of interdiction?

 

[ZiprHead]

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/1XafNLZrKAo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Keith&Co.]

But in that case, why cite the value of the drugs? Why wouldn't he cite the cost of interdiction?

He meant the interdiction cost. Poorly phrased.

"The legal burden to the taxpayer, due to the illegal drug trade, exceeds $500 billion a year --"

It'll be clearer once he gets the wall and starts trimming money from the DEA and Coast Guard budgets. "We have a wall, now, so no need for as much drug enforcement...."

 

[Elixir]

I don't care about desert and walls in it.

Why would you care about any of this? Not like it's Russia...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

How would it be inconsistent? You saw the related map. The submarine routes take them to Mexico and then they go through to the US from there. At no point is anybody walking through a desert with a backpack or any other weird situation where a wall would have some form of relevance.

I don't care about desert and walls in it. I questioned a claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry which is what Cuomo said.

And if you'd typed that question into google instead of here to do some basic research on the topic, you'd already know the answer to that as opposed to choosing to remain deliberately obtuse on the matter

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-11/DIR-032-18%202018%20NDTA%20final%20low%20resolution.pdf#page=31

A small percentage
of all heroin seized by CBP along the land
border was between Ports of Entry (POEs).
The CBP San Diego sector reported the
greatest amount of heroin seized of all nonPOE land border seizures, followed by the
Tucson sector.
Mexican TCOs control the movement of
heroin that enters the United States across
the SWB, until it reaches its destination
in cities all over the United States. The
majority of the flow is through POVs
entering the United States at legal ports
of entry, followed by tractor-trailers, where
the heroin is co-mingled with legal goods
(see Figure 27). Body carriers represent
a smaller percentage of heroin movement
across the SWB and they typically smuggle
amounts ranging from three to six pounds
taped to their torso, or in shoes and
backpacks. A very small percentage of the
heroin seized by law enforcement enters
through the Northern Border between the
United States and Canada. Heroin is also
seized on the ferry from the Dominican
Republic to Puerto Rico.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

barbos is supposed to be smart about science. Which is odd, because a person who understands science would understand that the capacity to transit drugs with people is a bit lower than with machines.

 

[funinspace]

Here is a PDF from the DEA federales that might help arguing with children...though they still don't break down the methods of importation in percentages.
https://defenseoversight.wola.org/primarydocs/161206_dea_ndta.pdf

Some snippets at page 7:

The most common method employed by Mexican TCOs involves transporting drugs in vehicles through U.S. ports of entry (POEs). Illicit drugs are smuggled into the United States in concealed compartments within passenger vehicles or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor trailers. Increasingly, Mexican TCOs are transporting illicit drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, dissolved in liquids across the SWB.

"Most common" != "most important in terms of amount of drugs"
You can bust 10 cars with 100kg in each, or you can bust 1 tunnel with 10 tons in it and god knows how much have been transferred through it already. Most common would be cars but not most efficient.

I need numbers.

Kind of reminds me of my toddler (long time ago)...one night he kept coming out of his room with 'reasons' to not be in bed. His last excuse was that he didn't feel good. I asked if his big toe also hurt...

 

[barbos]

And if you'd typed that question into google instead of here to do some basic research on the topic, you'd already know the answer to that as opposed to choosing to remain deliberately obtuse on the matter

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-11/DIR-032-18%202018%20NDTA%20final%20low%20resolution.pdf#page=31

A small percentage
of all heroin seized by CBP along the land
border was between Ports of Entry (POEs).
The CBP San Diego sector reported the
greatest amount of heroin seized of all nonPOE land border seizures, followed by the
Tucson sector.
Mexican TCOs control the movement of
heroin that enters the United States across
the SWB, until it reaches its destination
in cities all over the United States. The
majority of the flow is through POVs
entering the United States at legal ports
of entry, followed by tractor-trailers, where
the heroin is co-mingled with legal goods
(see Figure 27). Body carriers represent
a smaller percentage of heroin movement
across the SWB and they typically smuggle
amounts ranging from three to six pounds
taped to their torso, or in shoes and
backpacks. A very small percentage of the
heroin seized by law enforcement enters
through the Northern Border between the
United States and Canada. Heroin is also
seized on the ferry from the Dominican
Republic to Puerto Rico.

First, I am not doing your job, you made the claim, you should provide the googling
Second, no, your googling does not help you. to confirm the claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry.

 

[barbos]

barbos is supposed to be smart about science. Which is odd, because a person who understands science would understand that the capacity to transit drugs with people is a bit lower than with machines.

Nobody prevents you from using machines in the desert or in the sea. or under ground.

- - - Updated - - -

"Most common" != "most important in terms of amount of drugs"
You can bust 10 cars with 100kg in each, or you can bust 1 tunnel with 10 tons in it and god knows how much have been transferred through it already. Most common would be cars but not most efficient.

I need numbers.

Kind of reminds me of my toddler (long time ago)...one night he kept coming out of his room with 'reasons' to not be in bed. His last excuse was that he didn't feel good. I asked if his big toe also hurt...

And you remind me dumb idiot.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And if you'd typed that question into google instead of here to do some basic research on the topic, you'd already know the answer to that as opposed to choosing to remain deliberately obtuse on the matter

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-11/DIR-032-18%202018%20NDTA%20final%20low%20resolution.pdf#page=31

A small percentage
of all heroin seized by CBP along the land
border was between Ports of Entry (POEs).
The CBP San Diego sector reported the
greatest amount of heroin seized of all nonPOE land border seizures, followed by the
Tucson sector.
Mexican TCOs control the movement of
heroin that enters the United States across
the SWB, until it reaches its destination
in cities all over the United States. The
majority of the flow is through POVs
entering the United States at legal ports
of entry, followed by tractor-trailers, where
the heroin is co-mingled with legal goods
(see Figure 27). Body carriers represent
a smaller percentage of heroin movement
across the SWB and they typically smuggle
amounts ranging from three to six pounds
taped to their torso, or in shoes and
backpacks. A very small percentage of the
heroin seized by law enforcement enters
through the Northern Border between the
United States and Canada. Heroin is also
seized on the ferry from the Dominican
Republic to Puerto Rico.

First, I am not doing your job, you made the claim, you should provide the googling
Second, no, your googling does not help you. to confirm the claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry.

Umm ... yes it does. The DEA is very clear about how drugs are getting into the country. They spell it out in great detail.

Google also has a translate feature if you need to read it in Russian.

 

[barbos]

First, I am not doing your job, you made the claim, you should provide the googling
Second, no, your googling does not help you. to confirm the claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry.

Umm ... yes it does. The DEA is very clear about how drugs are getting into the country. They spell it out in great detail.

Google also has a translate feature if you need to read it in Russian.

No it does not and it is you who need translate feature.
Here, let me help you, heroin is not the only and not even major drug in US, not to mention that it has specific routes because of its origin.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Government shutdown: Is there a crisis on the US-Mexico border?

While cross-border migrants often make headlines, the largest number of illegal migrants settling in the US each year is those who stay in the country after their visas expire.

According to the most recent reports by the Department of Homeland Security and the Center for Migration Studies, a non-partisan think-tank, the number who overstayed their visas has outnumbered those who crossed the border illegally every year since 2007.

Canadians make up the largest group of these illegal migrants, followed by Mexicans.

Took me a while to relocate the story.

 

[barbos]

Government shutdown: Is there a crisis on the US-Mexico border?

While cross-border migrants often make headlines, the largest number of illegal migrants settling in the US each year is those who stay in the country after their visas expire.

According to the most recent reports by the Department of Homeland Security and the Center for Migration Studies, a non-partisan think-tank, the number who overstayed their visas has outnumbered those who crossed the border illegally every year since 2007.

Canadians make up the largest group of these illegal migrants, followed by Mexicans.

Took me a while to relocate the story.

These damn Canadians, eh?, most of these are probably Hollywood actors

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Government shutdown: Is there a crisis on the US-Mexico border?

While cross-border migrants often make headlines, the largest number of illegal migrants settling in the US each year is those who stay in the country after their visas expire.

According to the most recent reports by the Department of Homeland Security and the Center for Migration Studies, a non-partisan think-tank, the number who overstayed their visas has outnumbered those who crossed the border illegally every year since 2007.

Canadians make up the largest group of these illegal migrants, followed by Mexicans.

Took me a while to relocate the story.

These damn Canadians, eh?, most of these are probably Hollywood actors

We're gonna build a wall up there too, and make Canada pay for it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

First, I am not doing your job, you made the claim, you should provide the googling
Second, no, your googling does not help you. to confirm the claim that most drugs come through legal point of entry.

Umm ... yes it does. The DEA is very clear about how drugs are getting into the country. They spell it out in great detail.

Google also has a translate feature if you need to read it in Russian.

No it does not and it is you who need translate feature.
Here, let me help you, heroin is not the only and not even major drug in US, not to mention that it has specific routes because of its origin.

What are you talking about? The DEA report I linked to for you breaks down many different types of drugs and the data for cocaine transportation and the like into the US is the same as for heroin.

Do you not read the links provided for you or something? How can you ask so passionately for data from people and then ignore that data when it’s given? Exactly what is it that you feel is unclear?

 

[4321lynx]

This thread has been side-railed, if not derailed, into a discussion of drug smuggling, when the wall as I understand it is mainly concerned with illegal immigration. That means people, not drugs, but if you can't have one without the other, at least do not exclude immigration from the discussion.It would be the height of folly to think that solving the one would solve the problems associated with the other.