The web of lies in Ferguson

[ksen]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-evidence-mistakes_n_6220814.html

But the gun was not tested for fingerprints. An investigator argued before the grand jury that the decision was made not to test the weapon because Wilson “never lost control of his gun.”

very convenient

along with

1. Wilson washed away blood evidence.

2. The first officer to interview Wilson failed to take any notes.

3. Investigators failed to measure the likely distance between Brown and Wilson.

5. Wilson did not immediately turn his weapon over to investigators after killing Brown.

6. An initial interview with investigators was delayed while Wilson traveled to the hospital with his superiors.

7. Wilson’s initial interview with the detective conflicts with information given in later testimony.

but the prosecutor couldn't even get a measly indictment

 

[Davka]

Reports indicate Brown's DNA on the gun and on the inside of the car door.

For whatever it's worth.

 

[ksen]

well sure, because blood gets spattered all over the place when the body gets hit with a bullet

 

[laughing dog]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-evidence-mistakes_n_6220814.html



very convenient

along with

1. Wilson washed away blood evidence.

2. The first officer to interview Wilson failed to take any notes.

3. Investigators failed to measure the likely distance between Brown and Wilson.

5. Wilson did not immediately turn his weapon over to investigators after killing Brown.

6. An initial interview with investigators was delayed while Wilson traveled to the hospital with his superiors.

7. Wilson’s initial interview with the detective conflicts with information given in later testimony.

but the prosecutor couldn't even get a measly indictment

The prosecutor got what he wanted.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

well sure, because blood gets spattered all over the place when the body gets hit with a bullet

Only at short range.

 

[bilby]

well sure, because blood gets spattered all over the place when the body gets hit with a bullet

Only at short range.

Where did you get your forensic medicine training, Loren? How far blood travels due to a bullet wound depends on a huge number of factors, and the range at which the person was shot is one of the less important of these.

 

[Shadowy Man]

So, if Brown grabbed Wilson's gun, his fingerprints should have been on it, right? Anyone know if they were?

You can't be certain of getting prints when something is touched. The presence of prints shows it was touched, the absence doesn't show it wasn't.

So, were his fingerprints on the gun?

 

[Rhea]

It's not surprising to me that there is blood on the gun. What doesn't make sense is the "gun grab" being anything other than Brown grabbing it AFTER IT WAS POINTED AT HIM POINT-BLANK, which I think most of us would probably do to get it away from being pointed at us!??

It was a stupid move for the cop to draw his gun at this close-range encounter. He could have put the vehicle in gear and moved. He said that he chose not to use mace because he might get hit by it AND YET by pulling his gun he was almost shot by it because it was within reach of his "attacker". Pretty stupid all-in-all.

And does not make sense outside of the "kill the bad black man!" mind-set.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Only at short range.

Where did you get your forensic medicine training, Loren? How far blood travels due to a bullet wound depends on a huge number of factors, and the range at which the person was shot is one of the less important of these.

I was talking about how far the blood splatters. If the gun get splattered the target wasn't very far away.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not surprising to me that there is blood on the gun. What doesn't make sense is the "gun grab" being anything other than Brown grabbing it AFTER IT WAS POINTED AT HIM POINT-BLANK, which I think most of us would probably do to get it away from being pointed at us!??

It was a stupid move for the cop to draw his gun at this close-range encounter. He could have put the vehicle in gear and moved. He said that he chose not to use mace because he might get hit by it AND YET by pulling his gun he was almost shot by it because it was within reach of his "attacker". Pretty stupid all-in-all.

And does not make sense outside of the "kill the bad black man!" mind-set.

He was in his car, mace could easily splash back on him because it isn't directional enough. Bullets are far more directional.

 

[laughing dog]

He was in his car, mace could easily splash back on him because it isn't directional enough. Bullets are far more directional.

Is there any excuse you will not use to defend the shooting of a black man? The "I didn't to get any mace on me, so I shot him" sounds reasonable to you? Really?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He was in his car, mace could easily splash back on him because it isn't directional enough. Bullets are far more directional.

Is there any excuse you will not use to defend the shooting of a black man? The "I didn't to get any mace on me, so I shot him" sounds reasonable to you? Really?

Is there any argument you won't misinterpret??

It's not that he didn't want to get any mace on him. It's that if he did get mace on him he very well might be dead.

 

[Rhea]

Is there any excuse you will not use to defend the shooting of a black man? The "I didn't to get any mace on me, so I shot him" sounds reasonable to you? Really?

Is there any argument you won't misinterpret??

It's not that he didn't want to get any mace on him. It's that if he did get mace on him he very well might be dead.

And he was a shitload closer to being dead by drawing his gun in a situation almost certain to yield control of it to his attacker. His own gun was pointed at him. That's not worse than mace? Still a stooopid decision to pick the gun, no matter how you look at it. It makes no sense if the cop's mindset was "stay safe, stay alive," but it makes perfect sense if the cop's mindset is, "kill the black man."

 

[laughing dog]

Is there any excuse you will not use to defend the shooting of a black man? The "I didn't to get any mace on me, so I shot him" sounds reasonable to you? Really?

Is there any argument you won't misinterpret??

You wrote what you wrote. I don't read minds.

It's not that he didn't want to get any mace on him. It's that if he did get mace on him he very well might be dead.

So, spraying mace won't kill victim but it the mace blowback will kill the police officer? Or is that you think the maced victim will fight through the mace and attack the police officer who is incapacitated by the mace blowback? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[Rhea]

So, spraying mace won't kill victim but it the mace blowback will kill the police officer? Or is that you think the maced victim will fight through the mace and attack the police officer who is incapacitated by the mace blowback? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

apparently not.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is there any argument you won't misinterpret??

You wrote what you wrote. I don't read minds.

It's not that he didn't want to get any mace on him. It's that if he did get mace on him he very well might be dead.

So, spraying mace won't kill victim but it the mace blowback will kill the police officer? Or is that you think the maced victim will fight through the mace and attack the police officer who is incapacitated by the mace blowback? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

1) You're assuming the mace takes out the attacker. This is by no means certain.

2) Mace is useless against people on some drugs.

 

[laughing dog]

1) You're assuming the mace takes out the attacker. This is by no means certain.

Rhea is right, you don't realize how ridiculous it sounds.

2) Mace is useless against people on some drugs.

First you need to prove that. Secondly and more importantly, how come the police officer wasn't worried about possibly getting aids from any sprayed blood or that the bullet on this drug-infused raging scary black man would not stop his attempts to successfully kill the police officer?

Do you really think this particular police officer (whose interviews do not seem to indicate he is even a shallow thinker) used "logic" to guide his reactions?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Is there any argument you won't misinterpret??

You wrote what you wrote. I don't read minds.

It's not that he didn't want to get any mace on him. It's that if he did get mace on him he very well might be dead.

So, spraying mace won't kill victim but it the mace blowback will kill the police officer? Or is that you think the maced victim will fight through the mace and attack the police officer who is incapacitated by the mace blowback? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Wilson's argument in his testimony was that he was being beaten so severely through his car window that he was on the verge of being knocked unconscious. This great beast of a man (who apparently can run full speed with his head level to the ground into a flurry of bullets) was surely going to kill him and his only recourse was to draw his gun. I guess his assumption was that if he were knocked out then Brown would easily get his gun and kill him. Instead he drew his gun in the presence of someone who he stated was clearly overpowering him and nearly lost full control of it to Brown, despite there not being any evidence that Brown ever had his hand on the gun.

- - - Updated - - -

First you need to prove that. Secondly and more importantly, how come the police officer wasn't worried about possibly getting aids from any sprayed blood or that the bullet on this drug-infused raging scary black man would not stop his attempts to successfully kill the police officer?

I would think that ebola would be more frightening than AIDS.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Rhea is right, you don't realize how ridiculous it sounds.

2) Mace is useless against people on some drugs.

First you need to prove that. Secondly and more importantly, how come the police officer wasn't worried about possibly getting aids from any sprayed blood or that the bullet on this drug-infused raging scary black man would not stop his attempts to successfully kill the police officer?

Do you really think this particular police officer (whose interviews do not seem to indicate he is even a shallow thinker) used "logic" to guide his reactions?

Asking this of a police officer who drove his police car to within reaching distance of two people he had chosen to confront before getting out of it? That is a fundamentally illogical and stupid thing to do, tactically speaking, if you have any suspicion that your suspect may pose a danger to you (Wilson has no idea if Brown has a knife or a screwdriver or something and won't stab him in the chest the moment he steps out of the car).

OTOH, driving your car right up to somebody's foot and throwing the door open FEELS like a really badass way to intimidate/menace someone who just pissed you off. The problem is, if you trigger someone's fight-or-flight response at extremely close range, the first thing they usually do is fight.

 

[RavenSky]

Rhea is right, you don't realize how ridiculous it sounds.
First you need to prove that. Secondly and more importantly, how come the police officer wasn't worried about possibly getting aids from any sprayed blood or that the bullet on this drug-infused raging scary black man would not stop his attempts to successfully kill the police officer?

Do you really think this particular police officer (whose interviews do not seem to indicate he is even a shallow thinker) used "logic" to guide his reactions?

Asking this of a police officer who drove his police car to within reaching distance of two people he had chosen to confront before getting out of it? That is a fundamentally illogical and stupid thing to do, tactically speaking, if you have any suspicion that your suspect may pose a danger to you (Wilson has no idea if Brown has a knife or a screwdriver or something and won't stab him in the chest the moment he steps out of the car).

OTOH, driving your car right up to somebody's foot and throwing the door open FEELS like a really badass way to intimidate/menace someone who just pissed you off. The problem is, if you trigger someone's fight-or-flight response at extremely close range, the first thing they usually do is fight.

Especially if you've already grabbed their shirt so they can't immediately flee, as one of the witnesses said happened.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Asking this of a police officer who drove his police car to within reaching distance of two people he had chosen to confront before getting out of it? That is a fundamentally illogical and stupid thing to do, tactically speaking, if you have any suspicion that your suspect may pose a danger to you (Wilson has no idea if Brown has a knife or a screwdriver or something and won't stab him in the chest the moment he steps out of the car).

OTOH, driving your car right up to somebody's foot and throwing the door open FEELS like a really badass way to intimidate/menace someone who just pissed you off. The problem is, if you trigger someone's fight-or-flight response at extremely close range, the first thing they usually do is fight.

Especially if you've already grabbed their shirt so they can't immediately flee, as one of the witnesses said happened.

VERY true.

But even without that, it might actually come down to a racial/social difference. I have, for example, had to warn some of my white friends that there are certain types of pranks you simply do not try to pull on black people. "Why?" they always ask. "Because black people are unpredictable when startled."