The women in Iran taking off the hijab

[Elixir]

Sorry to disappoint, but blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions are venerable traditions that western liberals have no right to interfere in. If you don't like blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions, then that's your choice. But don't try to force your values on others!

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Sorry to disappoint, but blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions are venerable traditions that western liberals have no right to interfere in. If you don't like blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions, then that's your choice. But don't try to force your values on others!

Really? Circumcision? Do you think that belongs in the list with those other things? Why not just add in cutting infront of others in a line?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

I've often seen it said that the reason the koran tells women they should cover up is for the sake of modesty, but it really isn't. It's to distinguish themselves from non-muslim women, so that muslim men can tell which women are to be left in peace (i.e. muslim women) and which are fair game (i.e. non-muslim women). That could be just my nterpretation, but it's there in black and white:

59. O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.

In the minds of those who impose coverall dress codes on women, women who don't cover up are saying, "I'm not really a believer, so it's okay for you to do what you want to me".

 

[atrib]

I've often seen it said that the reason the koran tells women they should cover up is for the sake of modesty, but it really isn't. It's to distinguish themselves from non-muslim women, so that muslim men can tell which women are to be left in peace (i.e. muslim women) and which are fair game (i.e. non-muslim women). That could be just my nterpretation, but it's there in black and white:

59. O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.

In the minds of those who impose coverall dress codes on women, women who don't cover up are saying, "I'm not really a believer, so it's okay for you to do what you want to me".

Thanks for pointing that out. That is what it seems to be saying. Syed, what do you think, should Muslim women be left in peace and only non-Muslim women harrassed in public?

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe this should be posted in the Beautiful Women thread.

 

[Thomas II]

Maybe this should be posted in the Beautiful Women thread.

Couldn't agree more...Done!

 

[Smoker]

basically atheist morality is that you can show private parts and muslims should follow your morals

I don't think there is such a thing as atheist morality, because atheists are a very broad group of people that believe many different things. The only thing that all atheists agree on is that there are no gods, but that doesn't mean that they all agree with each other on the subject of morals and ethics.

 

[RavenSky]

where do you draw the line?

what shouldnt be shown in public?

Blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions.

Add to that: beatings of women

 

[Keith&Co.]

where do you draw the line?

what shouldnt be shown in public?

Blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions.

Add to that: beatings of women

True.
More general: "Those actions which will, or may, or a person should know it may, or could be expected to know it may, pose a threat of death, grievous bodily harm, Celine Dion or permanent scarring upon an individual without their express consent at the time of infliction."

I suppose it's possible Syed would feel that a viewing of boobies would run a risk of causing permanent emotional scarring. But i'd contend that it's only his religion-based conditioning which causes the reaction. Islam has scarred him, boobies are harmless.

 

[Nexus]

I've always found head scarves to be a very sexy fashion accessory. That's why I found it odd that its supposed to be a sign of modesty or purity. The point about them simply being a marker for Muslim women so they won't get harassed makes more sense.

 

[J842P]

I've always found head scarves to be a very sexy fashion accessory. That's why I found it odd that its supposed to be a sign of modesty or purity. The point about them simply being a marker for Muslim women so they won't get harassed makes more sense.

The headscarf thing in Iran is complexly intertwined with politics and national identity, social mores, and religion. Covering your head as a sign of being modest goes back much further than the origin of Islam, maybe even dating further into the past than the origin of Islam dates compared to the present day. It has always been a part of the culture and society of the region. It was also a class symbol, and the oldest laws written on the subjected (dating from the Achaemenid period) prohibited the wearing of veils by certain sectors of society.

Fast-forward about a thousand years and you get to the Islamic Middle East, and now the wearing of the veil has become part of the dutiful observation of Islamic standards of modesty.

Fast-forward to the mid-to-late 19th century, and the last King of Iran, The Shah, bans the wearing of the veil in an effort to Westernize the country. Unfortunately, this is seen by many in Iran as confirmation that he is little more than a colonialist puppet, and this perception was exploited by the influential Shia clerical factions which would end up seizing the momentum of the revolution that deposed The Shah. During the unrest leading up to the revolution against the Shah, many women started wearing the traditional chador as a symbol re-affirming the country's Persian and Islamic identity; so it functioned as a dual symbol: one of nationalism as well as religion.

 

[Syed]

where do you draw the line?

what shouldnt be shown in public?

Blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars, nuclear explosions, rape and circumcisions.

about the clothes

Blood sacrifices, beheadings, holy wars and suicide bombing is MUCH more offensive and harmful to the public than a few immodestly dressed women, woundn't you agree? Such events are common in the Islamic world yet you never seem to take offense and speak out against such things. Why are your priorities so fucked up?

Syed, can you explain why women choosing to bare their breasts in public is wrong?

does women breast arouse you?

 

[NobleSavage]

does women breast arouse you?

Yes, but is wrong with being aroused?

 

[Syed]

salam

do you want muslims women to go topless too?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/05/topless-book-club-new-york-photos-nsfw_n_5267320.html

Why not?
What you find shocking is what you've been enculturated to find shocking, Syed. It is not natural to find uncovered hair or breasts shocking. This is learned.

Remember that a century ago the women in the Happy Muslims video wearing tight trousers would have been shocking to your average American, but today no-one cares, because we're used to it.
If Muslim women began uncovering their hair or going topless on hot days it would soon become unremarkable and arouse no interest as well.

Do you not agree?

where do you draw the line?

what shouldnt be shown in public?

Hey Syed, why don't you need to wear a hijab? Why is it only the women that have to cover up?

in islam men and women both have to cover up

 

[atrib]

Sometimes, depending on the circumstances. You did not answer the question. What is wrong with a woman dressing immodestly?

 

[Methinx]

What is wrong with a woman dressing immodestly?

In Islam it is assumed that women are responsible for the lust in men, they must be hidden, covered.

If they appear too sexy they must be raped or your manhood is jeopardized...you might even be gay!

 

[Syed]

does women breast arouse you?

Yes, but is wrong with being aroused?

if you are married man and you are aroused by stranger on street many thing could go wrong

imagine you are going for walk with your wife and you have erection

 

[Syed]

What is wrong with a woman dressing immodestly?

In Islam it is assumed that women are responsible for the lust in men, they must be hidden, covered.

If they appear too sexy they must be raped or your manhood is jeopardized...you might even be gay!

why america became a number one rapist country?

 

[Syed]

I've always found head scarves to be a very sexy fashion accessory. That's why I found it odd that its supposed to be a sign of modesty or purity. The point about them simply being a marker for Muslim women so they won't get harassed makes more sense.

what do you think about bikini wearing woman?