Tipping Culture

[Copernicus]

Americans have a "tipping culture", so they often feel pressure to tip in countries where it is not expected or appropriate. Employers in certain businesses (e.g. the restaurant industry) sometimes pay low wages to staff, expecting them to make up for it in tips. So failure to tip (or giving very low tips) is considered stingy and rude.

I much prefer the practice in some European countries that includes service in the bill. One leaves a small additional tip to show appreciation for service.

 

[jladam]

Americans have a "tipping culture", so they often feel pressure to tip in countries where it is not expected or appropriate. Employers in certain businesses (e.g. the restaurant industry) sometimes pay low wages to staff, expecting them to make up for it in tips. So failure to tip (or giving very low tips) is considered stingy and rude.

I much prefer the practice in some European countries that includes service in the bill. One leaves a small additional tip to show appreciation for service.

They have that here in the Dominican Republic. By law restaurants and bars are required to add a 10% gratuity charge to every bill. The problem with that in a third world country like the DR is that many laws here are almost never enforced. The 10% gratuity is one of them. Many restaurants and bars don't even bother with it. And many of the ones that do put it on the bill do so only to see it pocketed by the owner. About 90% of the time the employee never receives the 10% obligatory gratuity charge. And food and beverage workers here have no recourse to complain about it. The sad part about this is tourists who come here are often told about the 10% gratuity law, but never told about the fact that it's rarely in effect. So, the food and beverage workers here are the ones that really end up getting screwed.

 

[zorq]

Tipping is stupid.

IMO you don't get better service in countries with tipping which seems to be the only excuse having a tipping culture might have. * Footnote below.

Here is a news flash. Most people try to do the best they can at their jobs all the time. Partially because it is human nature and partially because their job depends on it regardless of tipping culture.

Some countries without tipping provide much better service. It frustrates the customer, it frustrates the servers. It is a bad policy.

* The only other excuse for tipping is as just one more tool for employers to screw over their employees. I'm sure there are some edge cases where tipping in high end establishments allows some professional wait staff to leech off of profligate 1%'rs to the benefit of the the waitstaff, but who cares about edge cases. There are happy waitstaff at high end establishments in non-tipping cultures too.

 

[Tigers!]

Fortunately in Australia tipping is not expected but the virus is slowly spreading.

 

[James Brown]

I find it curious that traditional tip earners argue that they should be paid with fewer tips and higher flat wages, but no one ever wants it the other way around.

No one says, "Pay me less but let me accept tips. I'll make more money 'cuz I'm such a hard worker." At least I've never heard of anyone stumping for that.

 

[Toni]

I find it curious that traditional tip earners argue that they should be paid with fewer tips and higher flat wages, but no one ever wants it the other way around.

No one says, "Pay me less but let me accept tips. I'll make more money 'cuz I'm such a hard worker." At least I've never heard of anyone stumping for that.

It really does depend on what type and how successful an establishment one works for. One of my offspring used to tables at a couple of high end establishments and did very well. Another worked for an up and coming establisent that was badly mismanaged and never ‘arrived.’ That often resulted in pay periods with virtually no pay on the pay stub—and very little in tips. That kid left sooner than intended because, we’ll, even with a roommate, one still has to make rent.

The restaurant business is very high stress and very hard work. Minimum wage is not fair compensation. If one is good at one’s job and works at an upscale establishment and gets along with the rest of the staff, front and back of the house, one can make a decent living. But it’s hard work and high stress.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I find it curious that traditional tip earners argue that they should be paid with fewer tips and higher flat wages, but no one ever wants it the other way around.

No one says, "Pay me less but let me accept tips. I'll make more money 'cuz I'm such a hard worker." At least I've never heard of anyone stumping for that.

Isn't that basically people who pleaded to be put on mostly commission? I know people who work almost entirely on commission.

 

[bilby]

I find it curious that traditional tip earners argue that they should be paid with fewer tips and higher flat wages, but no one ever wants it the other way around.

No one says, "Pay me less but let me accept tips. I'll make more money 'cuz I'm such a hard worker." At least I've never heard of anyone stumping for that.

Isn't that basically people who pleaded to be put on mostly commission? I know people who work almost entirely on commission.

Commission is very different from tips. Commission is a percentage of the take; The more you sell, the more you earn. Tips are whatever amount the customer feels like paying. A tipped employee who handles a $1,000 sale has no guarantee that they will get a larger tip than they did for another sale of only $200; While the amount of a gratuity is often 'suggested' or 'recommended' to be a % of the tab, there is wide variation from these expectations.

A commission employee might get 10% of their sales. A tipped employee might expect 15 or 20%, but they might get 25%, or 100%, or nothing at all.

For every waiter who serves a $500 lunch to Bill Gates and gets a $1,000 tip, there are thousands who serve a $20 lunch to some asshole who tips with a bible tract, or just stiffs him altogether.

The whole concept is deeply flawed and demeaning to all involved. If paying staff decent hourly wages is such an awful idea (and I don't see how it is), then maybe commission is the way to go - eliminate the expectation of tipping entirely, and pay staff a fixed percentage of the sales they are involved in - adding this to the prices, if necessary.

If someone gives bad service, their 'penalty' should be a complaint to management (who can decide if any further action is needed), not the elimination of their income by some petty asshole customer who management would have told to go stick his groundless complaint.

If someone gives superb service, a small gratuity might be OK, but even then, it's better to let management know, so that the employee can be rewarded with pay rises, promotions, bonuses, etc.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Having lived for a length of time in both Canada and Japan, I find the culture surrounding tipping service people to be bad in both places, for opposite reasons.

A tip should be a show of appreciation for a service person going above and beyond what is expected. It should be a special thank you. It should never be expected and nor should it be seen as insulting.

In Canada, tipping has reached the point that it is expected, and some places even build it into the bill. In Japan, tipping is considered insulting as it causes the service person to "lose face". if you do it, you need to do it quietly and discreetly, and often it will be refused. Quite a shocking difference if you live in the one culture and visit the other (aside from expensive touristy hotels).

What is the culture on tipping where you come from? Is it different from the above two?

Sweden, 30 years ago a 10% tip was the norm. Regardless if you were satisfied or not. It was just something you did. Today it's only a practice you only find in swanky places. But becoming increasingly rare. Same deal in Denmark. Most restaurants I've been to here the waiter will click past the tip window before handing the payment thingy to you. Even fancy places.

I wish tipping in restauarants would go away. If your staff isn't prepared to make your visit a wonderful experience in spite of tips... fire them. Tipping should not be required.

Originally tipping was something you did in a bar before getting your drinks. To ensure speedy service. You noisily dropped low denomination coins into a metal container on the table.

I've worked in nightclub bars. If you want quick service all night pay a hefty tip for the first one. I think that's a custom that will stick around. It's very useful.

 

[Worldtraveller]

In the US, it's not just expected by the staff, it's expected by the IRS. It sucks. I've worked at a 'posh' restaurant, and the clientele were cheap ass old fuckers who had more money than they could spend anyway.

But the IRS assumes a certain amount of undocumented income as tips if you work in the industry, and if they think you're under-reporting, will tax you at a higher rate. The good news, it hardly ever actually happens, since it's not worth it.

Having lived in Japan and the EU as well, it was a much different experience. In Japan, it's part of their 'honor' to do a good job, and tipping is borderline insulting. In the EU (at least Germany), 5-10% if considered normal. I had to refrain from my usual tipping, although I did tip extra some times, but only when I knew the staff (some restaurants we frequented quite a bit) and they really went out of their way (we brought family/friends over for visits).

 

[James Brown]

I find it curious that traditional tip earners argue that they should be paid with fewer tips and higher flat wages, but no one ever wants it the other way around.

No one says, "Pay me less but let me accept tips. I'll make more money 'cuz I'm such a hard worker." At least I've never heard of anyone stumping for that.

Isn't that basically people who pleaded to be put on mostly commission? I know people who work almost entirely on commission.

What bilby said.

Plus, tips are paid directly from the customer to the employee. Commissions are paid from the employer to the employee, based on a pre-defined agreement. Would a salesman on commission agree to work for an employer who decided after the sale what his commission should be based on subjective and ill-defined factors?

Side story: A couple of weeks ago I was in a restaurant and the service was fine. Nothing terrible, but nothing special either. Just competent reliable service.

When it came time for the check, I took out my credit card. Normally the waiter takes the credit card somewhere, then comes back with a bill showing the total, a blank line for tip, then the place for a pointless signature. There I am free to write down what tip I think is appropriate, discuss it with others at the table, use a calculator if need be. Five minutes spent engaged in a mostly-private calculation.

In this case, however, the waiter took out a tablet with a card reader attached. He pulled up my bill on the screen, inserted my chip card, and showed me the total. For the tip, he pushed a button, and three options displayed: 10% 15% 20%, and I was supposed to select the option that I wanted, with the waiter standing there watching me. I felt obligated to choose 20%. If I had chosen less, would I then be expected to justify my choice to him?

Of course, in a year, they'll program it to display "15% 20% 25%" and customers will feel obligated to choose that higher amount. Or maybe a slider that scrolls from 15% to 100% in increments of 5%.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Of course, in a year, they'll program it to display "15% 20% 25%" and customers will feel obligated to choose that higher amount. Or maybe a slider that scrolls from 15% to 100% in increments of 5%.

It has become suspiciously common here in Ontario for debit card purchases at various restaurants to include a "Tip by %" line, with similar suggestions. You can press a button to manually enter something else (including zero) but those suggestions are given, and I am not even fully convinced that it is the restaurant's doing, since I've seen the same thing in multiple places, for both take out and dine in. It is quite a shock after coming back from a place like Japan where that would be mind blowing. I very much doubt that this money would go to the server as well. So I ignore it and tip cash directly in their hand when I want to tip.

I do similar in hotels. Always hide the tip somewhere that only the maid is going to see it, and not the management, or there is a good chance the maid won't get it.

 

[Underseer]

Having lived for a length of time in both Canada and Japan, I find the culture surrounding tipping service people to be bad in both places, for opposite reasons.

A tip should be a show of appreciation for a service person going above and beyond what is expected. It should be a special thank you. It should never be expected and nor should it be seen as insulting.

In Canada, tipping has reached the point that it is expected, and some places even build it into the bill. In Japan, tipping is considered insulting as it causes the service person to "lose face". if you do it, you need to do it quietly and discreetly, and often it will be refused. Quite a shocking difference if you live in the one culture and visit the other (aside from expensive touristy hotels).

What is the culture on tipping where you come from? Is it different from the above two?

It's even worse when you learn the historical origin of tipping.

When the slaves were freed, people wanted to keep the slaves working for them, but didn't want to pay slaves, so ex-slaves were expected to work for tips.

If you ask me, Europe has the right of it: pay all of your employees enough to live on in the first place.

 

[nightwyrm]

Of course, in a year, they'll program it to display "15% 20% 25%" and customers will feel obligated to choose that higher amount. Or maybe a slider that scrolls from 15% to 100% in increments of 5%.

It has become suspiciously common here in Ontario for debit card purchases at various restaurants to include a "Tip by %" line, with similar suggestions. You can press a button to manually enter something else (including zero) but those suggestions are given, and I am not even fully convinced that it is the restaurant's doing, since I've seen the same thing in multiple places, for both take out and dine in. It is quite a shock after coming back from a place like Japan where that would be mind blowing. I very much doubt that this money would go to the server as well. So I ignore it and tip cash directly in their hand when I want to tip.

I do similar in hotels. Always hide the tip somewhere that only the maid is going to see it, and not the management, or there is a good chance the maid won't get it.

Pretty sure the tip suggestions are just programmed into the card machines these days. I go to a boardgame cafe (food is available but you can just pay to play without buying food) and the machine always go thru a tipping screen. I'm not tipping for sitting down to play boardgames.

For the record, I hate tipping culture. It's bad for everyone but the restaurant owners. I have friends who worked as waitstaff tell me that they're paid below minimum wage by the restaurant coz their tips are suppose to make up the difference.

 

[DBT]

Employees should be payed well enough so that they neither need or expect tips from customers.....