Underseer
Contributor
So?
I mean you're wrong. Both men have confessed, but even assuming that wasn't the case, so what? What difference does that make?
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Trump attacks Franken for groping a woman
- Thread starter Underseer
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So?
I mean you're wrong. Both men have confessed, but even assuming that wasn't the case, so what? What difference does that make?
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
First, Trump hasn't confessed. His "locker room" explanation contends that he never did the stuff he says.
That makes all the difference, Franken is an admitted abuser, Trump and Moore are innocent victims of partisan conspiracies.
I know that's all baloney, but "officially" Franken is an abuser and the others are not.
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braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
I don't see that Franken should step down. The problem with many things today in our society is that nuance and context are gone or ignored. What Franken did was reprehensible, yet lumping him together into the same group as Moore, Weinstein or Trump is a mistake. So far, for Franken, this event is atypical for his character. As for the others, it's a defining characteristic.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
I don't think he should either, at least not without first going through the Ethics committee hearing.
There are more congressional shoes liable to drop before all is said and done. Let a comprehensive policy be formulated.
There are more congressional shoes liable to drop before all is said and done. Let a comprehensive policy be formulated.
sharon45
Veteran Member
Trump is again being a politician.
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
This becomes a problem right? What if Moore gets seated and despite the bullshit that McConnel has spouted, nothing happens to him? Then we have a Republican in a far worse "category" of sexual deviancy, that gets no discipline and a Democrat that does for a much lesser offense. Republicans love to talk about rule of law, but Trump and their ignoring of how he abuses his office and is unfit for the presidency have all but destroyed that. From the top down there is no example of justice or ethical behavior. The man in charge of the justice department itself is more concerned about undoing racial equality changes done by the previous administration and allowing the government to seize the assets of its citizens on mere hearsay. How can justice be forced from the bottom up? It's much more difficult.
Not surprisingly, since the GOP was taken over by the evangelicals, the party has suffered from a moral rot and ethical decay that has taken hold, getting worse year after year. Now, one cannot even debate them or have any kind of substantive argument, because a true conversation requires a certain dedication to truth and a set of shared facts. They have gotten into power through hook and crook, and so did not get into power through their ideas, and their dedication to religious purity has resulted in a brain drain, unlike anything anyone has seen in our country. In a two-party system like ours, both parties need to maintain a certain level of health in order to push the other party into a stronger position and move the country forward. How the hell do we get back to normal?
I don't know, but it's my hope that at least the judicial branch will level the playing field once again between the parties, by ending this gerrymandering that has given such an edge to the GOP. AT least then, the Republicans will lose because they have no ideas and do not deserve to rule, and this may actually drive them to make sorely needed changes within their party, ending the ignorance and fear-based rhetoric and their control of the rural areas via an arm of the media that only serves as their propaganda arm and nothing more. This, in turn, will force the Democrats to define themselves better and make sorely needed changes to their own party.
I have little optimism about this, though.
Not surprisingly, since the GOP was taken over by the evangelicals, the party has suffered from a moral rot and ethical decay that has taken hold, getting worse year after year. Now, one cannot even debate them or have any kind of substantive argument, because a true conversation requires a certain dedication to truth and a set of shared facts. They have gotten into power through hook and crook, and so did not get into power through their ideas, and their dedication to religious purity has resulted in a brain drain, unlike anything anyone has seen in our country. In a two-party system like ours, both parties need to maintain a certain level of health in order to push the other party into a stronger position and move the country forward. How the hell do we get back to normal?
I don't know, but it's my hope that at least the judicial branch will level the playing field once again between the parties, by ending this gerrymandering that has given such an edge to the GOP. AT least then, the Republicans will lose because they have no ideas and do not deserve to rule, and this may actually drive them to make sorely needed changes within their party, ending the ignorance and fear-based rhetoric and their control of the rural areas via an arm of the media that only serves as their propaganda arm and nothing more. This, in turn, will force the Democrats to define themselves better and make sorely needed changes to their own party.
I have little optimism about this, though.
Derec
Contributor
For a consensual affair? Why?
There are much worse things he did, like providing air support for Islamist separatists in Kosovo (for which the Islamist Shiptars raised statues for both him and Hillary).
Why? At least Juanita Broadrick accusation was one of rape, so if that one, if true, would be a big deal, but some consensual oral hanky panky is really not.
Yes, such joking around is completely unacceptable behavior for a comedian. How dare he joke around? That is only ok if a woman does it!
The only wrong thing Franken seems to have done here is apologize for ideological reasons. And hold that ideology (a woman must always be believed) in the first place.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Leeann Tweeden & Robin Williams during USO tour:
https://mobile.twitter.com/pacelattin/status/932059886518640640/video/1
https://mobile.twitter.com/pacelattin/status/932059886518640640/video/1
sharon45
Veteran Member
By voting.
sharon45
Veteran Member
Aw, watch it, lady, this is a rented suit!Yes, such joking around is completely unacceptable behavior for a comedian. How dare he joke around? That is only ok if a woman does it!
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[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/rJidGI-NMd0[/YOUTUBE]
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Between this, the same types of things directed at Robin Williams, and Leeann Tweeden being a regular Fox News & Pravda Friends contributor, I have some doubts about her authenticity. There's a big picture here that Franken's actions were part of a larger context of inappropriate jokes where the recipient may not have consented, such as the guitar player. Even so, the specific moment that Franken engaged in his actions he still did not have consent and so it was wrong; it's possible to victimize a victimizer. So, his apology was appropriate. I can't tell if Tweeden was doing this for political reasons, but her accepting his apology straight away was also the right thing to do in consideration of the offense and its context. All the hubbub around this whole incident seems at the moment to be a bit too much and not commensurate with other persons' activities and their non-reviews.
ronburgundy
Contributor
Trump admitted to repeated acts that qualify as rape. The fact that he thought this admission was in secret makes the admission all the more reliable, and the fact that he then lied about admitting this just makes him a rapist and a liar.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
In addition to other things. But so what? Franken made an admission, kinda hard not to with photographic proof, and Trump and Moore have not. Whether you like it or not, that is a difference.
I don't mean to defend these guys in any way, but it's simply not a matter of public record that Trump has admitted any actions. He has repudiated that tape. Some here don't seem to understand that.
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
Franken could have repudiated the photo, too, and it would have been as unbelievable as Trump's denial of his own words.
Franken was not touching the woman in the photo. It was far more "locker-room banter" than Trump's claim to grab women by their genitals. And here is the key point: even if Trump never actually ever grabbed any woman "by the pussy", the very fact he SAID he did is wrong. The very act of SAYING it was dehumanizing and sexually aggressive to women. He should have, at minimum, apologized for SAYING it, but he has refused to do so.
Franken apologized for pretending to sexually assault a woman in a posed photo... because that in and of itself was bad enough.
Trump DID say the words on that tape. That in and of itself was bad enough.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
That's probably what Trump would've done.
Franken could've done that, then no media figure could say that Franken admitted anything.
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
But then Franken would have been as unfit for office as Trump and Moore already are.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
Different portions of the electorate...can't remember did I see it here or on some news site, but one Trump supporter said they'd believe Trump over Jesus (assuming they consider Jesus to have credibility).
Elixir
Made in America
I'd love to put them on equal footing, Jesus and Trump.
It would be easy, if only TRUMP WAS DEAD!
Underseer
Contributor
Attacking the accuser is the kind of thing Republicans do. We should not sink to their level. Regardless of what she did or did not do, that cannot possibly justify what Franken did. Thus is a tu quoque fallacy.
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For a consensual affair? Why?
There are much worse things he did, like providing air support for Islamist separatists in Kosovo (for which the Islamist Shiptars raised statues for both him and Hillary).
Why? At least Juanita Broadrick accusation was one of rape, so if that one, if true, would be a big deal, but some consensual oral hanky panky is really not.
Yes, such joking around is completely unacceptable behavior for a comedian. How dare he joke around? That is only ok if a woman does it!
The only wrong thing Franken seems to have done here is apologize for ideological reasons. And hold that ideology (a woman must always be believed) in the first place.
Whether or not she is wrong is unrelated to whether or not Franken was wrong.