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Trump blames military for SEAL’s death

Don't military operations occurring very early in administrations have a history of going south?

Regardless, Trump says some other guy says the mission was a success. Trump does realize the President is allowed to be an authority source right? Of course, Mattis will have a hard time saying otherwise either.

Military operations ALWAYS END UP GOING SOUTH. They are one of the many modern things that can only last as long as they are funded. Once the juice is cut off they dry up and things in the countries our troops occupy and intimidate go back to normal. They do so very rapidly and usually are simply more fucked up than they were before the military arrived. Our military is robbing the American people of its future. Thanks you asshole Generals and oil executives!
 
YOU ARE the fucking military, asshole.
No he is not.

"The Military" is a chain of command. At the top of that chain of command is someone called Commander in Chief.
You can't weasel out of that FACT, and neither can the Commander in Chief.

Oh no... sorry.
Sure he can. He just did.
 
My own question would be why Obama and Trump had the concept of putting troops on the ground in a war started by Saudi Arabia.

Owen's father requested a formal inquiry into the incident to see what exactly happened and if there was any negligence arising out of the death.

What did President Obama have to do with this?
 
My own question would be why Obama and Trump had the concept of putting troops on the ground in a war started by Saudi Arabia.

Owen's father requested a formal inquiry into the incident to see what exactly happened and if there was any negligence arising out of the death.

What did President Obama have to do with this?
Depends on who you talkto, but 'nothing' or 'next to nothing.'

Near as i can tell he was hesitant to put troops on the ground there, esp. not if he was going to be leaving the results for the next POTUS to deal with.
 
My own question would be why Obama and Trump had the concept of putting troops on the ground in a war started by Saudi Arabia.

Owen's father requested a formal inquiry into the incident to see what exactly happened and if there was any negligence arising out of the death.

What did President Obama have to do with this?

Get a clue, darlin'.
As long as we have a so-called president whose utter lack of honesty is going to generate a never-ending series of fuckups, it's ALL going to be Obama's fault (unless they can lay it on Hillary).
 
What did President Obama have to do with this?
Depends on who you talkto, but 'nothing' or 'next to nothing.'

Near as i can tell he was hesitant to put troops on the ground there, esp. not if he was going to be leaving the results for the next POTUS to deal with.

As I understand the target was identified and the action conceptualised and vetted by the previous administration. As reported the previous defence secretary signed it off but Obama did not sign it. The reason given was operational reasons.

This is not to blame anyone other than it is very risky to contemplate the use of US ground troops but then carry it out. I don't see why there was a need to apportion blame for the death of the civilians or the death an injuries without an investigation. No matter who is in power they should steer away from using ground troops.

If it is true that Al Qaeda fired from the buildings which the women and children were held in, then the risk of civilian casualties would be high.

Al Qaeda is stuck in Yemen. Let them fight it out on the ground. A war is much safer fought from the air.

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What did President Obama have to do with this?

Get a clue, darlin'.
As long as we have a so-called president whose utter lack of honesty is going to generate a never-ending series of fuckups, it's ALL going to be Obama's fault (unless they can lay it on Hillary).

What makes you know it was a FUBAR (British army slang for F****d Up. Beyond Repair). You're ex-Military (Navy) so you will know that an investigation would need to take place.
 
As I understand the target was identified and the action conceptualised and vetted by the previous administration. As reported the previous defence secretary signed it off but Obama did not sign it. The reason given was operational reasons.
You do realize that the military conceptualizes lots of potential operations. Obama did not okay this operation. Which means Obama had nothing to do with it.

T
 
For those of you whom keep saying the buck stops with Trump and the POTUS is the one responsible for military missions...

I'm assuming y'all caught this on CNN, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politics/pentagon-approval-raids-white-house/index.html

Military commanders are discussing speeding up the authorization of counterterrorism missions by allowing the Pentagon or even field commanders to approve some of them rather than the White House, US defense officials told CNN.

Further down...

"The risk in greenlighting missions at a lower level than the President is one where the President assumes all the responsibility if something goes wrong, and he would really find it difficult to do that if in fact he was not part of the approval process," retired Col. Cedric Leighton said.

That's all you need to know...his first mission was a total fuck up, he can't handle anything but praise...so he's handing it off to generals and they are openly telling you it's so he doesn't have to take any responsibility for military actions that go wrong...but he can still celebrate like a jerk off when they go right.

You are all living in an Orwellian Nightmare right now and it's getting worse daily.

How in the fuck can this even be happening?
 
Depends on who you talkto, but 'nothing' or 'next to nothing.'

Near as i can tell he was hesitant to put troops on the ground there, esp. not if he was going to be leaving the results for the next POTUS to deal with.

As I understand the target was identified and the action conceptualised and vetted by the previous administration. As reported the previous defence secretary signed it off but Obama did not sign it. The reason given was operational reasons.

This is not to blame anyone other than it is very risky to contemplate the use of US ground troops but then carry it out. I don't see why there was a need to apportion blame for the death of the civilians or the death an injuries without an investigation. No matter who is in power they should steer away from using ground troops.

If it is true that Al Qaeda fired from the buildings which the women and children were held in, then the risk of civilian casualties would be high.

Al Qaeda is stuck in Yemen. Let them fight it out on the ground. A war is much safer fought from the air.
In other words, President Obama had nothing to do with it, but you threw his name in there anyway.

That's what I figured.

This was an operation that went south and a lot of people got killed. President Obama either had the foresight or the caution to NOT authorize this mission. Trump, on the other hand, is a idiot narcissist megalomaniac who has no clue what he is doing. I suspect he imagined this would be his Bin Laden moment, and never even bothered to consider the risks.
 
As I understand the target was identified and the action conceptualised and vetted by the previous administration. As reported the previous defence secretary signed it off but Obama did not sign it. The reason given was operational reasons.
You do realize that the military conceptualizes lots of potential operations. Obama did not okay this operation. Which means Obama had nothing to do with it.

T

I didn't say he did. My reference was conceptualising boots on the ground and carrying it is risky. Also before apportioning blame then I would advise an investigation is carried out first as I said before. We don't know if there was anyone to blame until this is done.
 
As I understand the target was identified and the action conceptualised and vetted by the previous administration. As reported the previous defence secretary signed it off but Obama did not sign it. The reason given was operational reasons.

This is not to blame anyone other than it is very risky to contemplate the use of US ground troops but then carry it out. I don't see why there was a need to apportion blame for the death of the civilians or the death an injuries without an investigation. No matter who is in power they should steer away from using ground troops.

If it is true that Al Qaeda fired from the buildings which the women and children were held in, then the risk of civilian casualties would be high.

Al Qaeda is stuck in Yemen. Let them fight it out on the ground. A war is much safer fought from the air.
In other words, President Obama had nothing to do with it, but you threw his name in there anyway.

That's what I figured.

This was an operation that went south and a lot of people got killed. President Obama either had the foresight or the caution to NOT authorize this mission. Trump, on the other hand, is a idiot narcissist megalomaniac who has no clue what he is doing. I suspect he imagined this would be his Bin Laden moment, and never even bothered to consider the risks.

I didn't say he did.
However under his administration this was conceptualised and signed off apart from him. There is nothing wrong with that either.
I understand there were some 'operational reasons' why this was not signed off (whatever that means). We don't know why Obama didn't authorise it but I don't think that matters.

As I said it's better to wait for the results of the investigation.

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No he is not.

"The Military" is a chain of command. At the top of that chain of command is someone called Commander in Chief.
You can't weasel out of that FACT, and neither can the Commander in Chief.

Oh no... sorry.
Sure he can. He just did.

Does that mean every single soldier who is killed in action is automatically the Commander in Chief's fault?
 
In other words, President Obama had nothing to do with it, but you threw his name in there anyway.

That's what I figured.

This was an operation that went south and a lot of people got killed. President Obama either had the foresight or the caution to NOT authorize this mission. Trump, on the other hand, is a idiot narcissist megalomaniac who has no clue what he is doing. I suspect he imagined this would be his Bin Laden moment, and never even bothered to consider the risks.

I didn't say he did.

Yes, actually you did:

My own question would be why Obama and Trump had the concept of putting troops on the ground in a war started by Saudi Arabia.
 
Does that mean every single soldier who is killed in action is automatically the Commander in Chief's fault?
Fault isn't the word i'd use.
But it's his responsibility. If he's got the balls to accept responsibility...

When a ship runs aground or collides with another ship, it doesn't matter if the captain was on the bridge, or touring the engine room or taking a shower. He's responsible for putting his ship in the hands of the people who made the decisions. Even if he left orders 'call me before we get within five miles of shore' and they don't wake him until they they're on the beach, or around the river's bend, or halfway through the coastal highway bridge, he is the one the chain of command will hold responsible.

The only acceptable answer, when the inquest asks 'who was in charge?' is for him to say 'me.'

Trump puts people in place to command the department of defense and execute his policies. He appoints people to each of the branches to execute his policies.

He (or at least his office) issues directives about the priorities to be followed.

In this case he actually had to give the go ahead for the mission. He cannot simultaneously brag about the mission's success and take no responsibility at all for the bad results.

If he wants to sit in the big chair, it's literally his ass on the line.

Now, sometimes men DO die on successful missions.
Investigations try to determine the source of the failure, either in the intel, the planning, the execution or whatever. "Fault" may not lie in Trump's hands.
BUt he cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity.
 
BUt he cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity.

He cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity when it suits him to do so

You can be sure he will attempt to claim singular credit if there are any future military successes, just like he has been trying to do with the stock market and employment figures.
 
BUt he cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity.

He cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity when it suits him to do so
Mox Nix.

Has he never wondered why the Marines salute him when he climbs into the whirlygig?
 
He cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity when it suits him to do so
Mox Nix.

Has he never wondered why the Marines salute him when he climbs into the whirlygig?

I'm sure he thinks it is his due as dictator of the USA.

I have to give credit to the Marines for discipline and strength of will, though. I'd never salute that orange idiot.
 
In the US system the military is commanded by a civilian.

Not a member of the military.
 
I didn't say he did.

Yes, actually you did:

My own question would be why Obama and Trump had the concept of putting troops on the ground in a war started by Saudi Arabia.

I mentioned conceptualise. We can't say it went south since we don't know that it did. If boots are put on the ground there is a likelihood of deaths (regardless of the success of any operation).

My own view is why the US is now involving itself in Saudi Arabia's Jihad in Yemen. There are 4 main armies involved and it doesn't need the US involved.

The Democratic administration bombed a few countries and didn't put boots on the ground

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...akistan-middle-east-afghanistan-a7534851.html

Are we going to have an investigation into how many civilians were killed from over 26,000 bombs dropped in 2016 as to how many civilians were killed?
This would take a considerable amount of time?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/24/world/middleeast/syria-warplanes-turkey.html?_r=0

The Special Operations Forces member who died Thursday was killed by an improvised explosive device in the vicinity of Ayn Issa in northern Syria, United States military officials said.
Has an investigation been carried out into that event. Did that operation also go South? Is it fair to blame the Commander in chief (Obama) at that time. It only made brief news.


Also for reference:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers-killed-in-iraq/

Under Obama there were still US servicemen killed. It wouldn't be fair to accuse him for such between 2012 to 2016
To his credit he drastically reduced the deaths of US servicemen by taking troops off the ground during offensives. This saved hundreds of lives each year.
 
Does that mean every single soldier who is killed in action is automatically the Commander in Chief's fault?
Fault isn't the word i'd use.
But it's his responsibility. If he's got the balls to accept responsibility...

When a ship runs aground or collides with another ship, it doesn't matter if the captain was on the bridge, or touring the engine room or taking a shower. He's responsible for putting his ship in the hands of the people who made the decisions. Even if he left orders 'call me before we get within five miles of shore' and they don't wake him until they they're on the beach, or around the river's bend, or halfway through the coastal highway bridge, he is the one the chain of command will hold responsible.

The only acceptable answer, when the inquest asks 'who was in charge?' is for him to say 'me.'

Trump puts people in place to command the department of defense and execute his policies. He appoints people to each of the branches to execute his policies.

He (or at least his office) issues directives about the priorities to be followed.

In this case he actually had to give the go ahead for the mission. He cannot simultaneously brag about the mission's success and take no responsibility at all for the bad results.

If he wants to sit in the big chair, it's literally his ass on the line.

Now, sometimes men DO die on successful missions.
Investigations try to determine the source of the failure, either in the intel, the planning, the execution or whatever. "Fault" may not lie in Trump's hands.
BUt he cannot disassociate himself by referring to the military as a completely separate entity.

So Obama and Bush are liable for every serviceman that died. However Obama took them off the ground which is creditworthy. Still a few died when Obama was in power. as in my earlier reply. Per your reasoning he should be investigated.
 
So Obama and Bush are liable for every serviceman that died.
THat's pretty much exactly not what i said.
However Obama took them off the ground which is creditworthy. Still a few died when Obama was in power. as in my earlier reply. Per your reasoning he should be investigated.
Have i made any attempt to exempt Obama from the responsibility? Could you point out where i only hold Trump or only the Republican presidents responsible? That was not my intent, so I'd like to see where i did that, so i can correct my mistake.
 
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