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Trump meeting with Kim Jong-Un

North Korea is a pariah state and its leader is a pariah. Even announcing a meeting with the POTUS elevates Jong's status. Having our POTUS meet with Jong makes sense only if they are there to sign a good nuclear non-proliferation agreement. Without that, this meeting is exponentially stupid.
 
Treedbear said:
Malintent said:
My take is that the "mad man" approach had some success. Not with North Korea, though. With South Korea. I think we scared the shit out of the South.. sufficiently to inspire them to make concessions and setup talks with the North. A conflict between the US and the North would impact the South more than anyone.

When I watched the leader of South Korea on TV announce that ("due to Trump's great leadership") they are setting up talks with the North, I turned to my wife and said, "for the second time now in world history, Korea just surrendered to the United States".
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I think rocket boy is looking at Trump and saying "Billionaire, golf resorts, porn stars, and thousands of adoring minion who think you're doing God's will?. Where do I sign up?"
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I thought it was the other way round... unrestricted power, no accountability, able to murder dissidents, able to invent the truth of his choosing... where do I sign up?
 
Horatio Parker said:
What's the hotel situation in Pyongyang?
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There is one, mostly empty. The rooms are bugged, and water and electric only flows during certain hours. There is a TV that is all snow except for one channel that is on during certain hours. The local government propaganda channel.
 
Malintent said:
Horatio Parker said:
What's the hotel situation in Pyongyang?
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There is one, mostly empty. The rooms are bugged, and water and electric only flows during certain hours. There is a TV that is all snow except for one channel that is on during certain hours. The local government propaganda channel.
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Great Leader makes television content so super fabulous awesome that one hour of superior North Korean programming is better than whole day of weak and decadent Western Imperialist programs ... except for Breaking Bad and The Wire, of course. Even insane, repressive dictators are forced to acknowledge the quality of those shows.
 
We should all be skeptical, considering how these things have failed in the past. When I first heard about this, all I could think was that Kim Jong Un realized the best way to manipulate Trump was by agreeing to meet with him, then heaping him with praise. I'd like to believe that something good will come of this, but when has anything good ever come from dealing with Trump or NK? I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Malintent said:
Horatio Parker said:
What's the hotel situation in Pyongyang?
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There is one, mostly empty. The rooms are bugged, and water and electric only flows during certain hours. There is a TV that is all snow except for one channel that is on during certain hours. The local government propaganda channel.
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Great Leader makes television content so super fabulous awesome that one hour of superior North Korean programming is better than whole day of weak and decadent Western Imperialist programs ... except for Breaking Bad and The Wire, of course. Even insane, repressive dictators are forced to acknowledge the quality of those shows.
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What, no Apprentice? Call the talks off...
 
southernhybrid said:
We should all be skeptical, considering how these things have failed in the past.
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We should all be skeptical considering that Trump will do anything to keep Russia off the front page. This is just like his tariffs - just today's Trump reality show episode. It will be a whole lot less than meets the eye at the moment, just like the tariffs - "25% on steel, 10% on aluminum!" and everyone freaks out, and can't talk about anything else. Then a day or few later "... except for the 2 closest countries who account for more than 25% of steel imports." Who knows if there will be anything left of it at all, by the time it is actually implemented.
The N Korea thing will be the same - "We give up nothing, and N Korea will de-nuclearize!" In a few days there will be a cloud of "maybes" and "sort ofs" gathering around all the fuss...
 
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Trump and "little rocket man" have so much in common. Maybe they will actually come to an understanding and pave a path towards peace based on mutual idiocy.
 
Well, rather predictably, the White House appears to be backing away from the meeting now, as it begins to look like something Trump basically blundered into completely by accident. I think Morning Joe really did put it best the other day when they commented on how Trump can't even put together a competent deal with a porn star, much less North Korea. (Nice zinger too.) We shall see.
 
Can one become POTUS just for the lulz?

Because I think that's what Trump has done.

I swear to god, his supporters were all over the internet earlier in the day shrieking about how he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize because he'd finally brought peace to the Koreas. And then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE

I will never cease to wonder why it is they enjoy being made fools of on a near daily basis.
 
Opoponax said:
Can one become POTUS just for the lulz?

Because I think that's what Trump has done.
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I think this is another demonstration of the fact that Trump simply doesn't understand that he's really President of the United States.

The President of the United States does not meet with the Supreme Leader of the Democratic Republic of North Korea (or whatever his title is). That would lend legitimacy to the Kim regime, and that's something we don't want to do.

The "walking back" of the offer is a result of the grown ups in the White House (who are about to be fired according to Vanity Fair) talking Fragilego Mussolini down off another stupid ledge.
 
So the Dotard and Little Rocket Man won't be meeting?

To use each one's insult for the other.


But if the pResident fires those who opposed that meeting, then he will make things very hard on himself. He works rather little of the day, and it will be hard to find anyone who is both loyal to him and very skilled. When his own Secretary of State allegedly once called him a moron, one has to be suspicious.
 
lpetrich said:
So the Dotard and Little Rocket Man won't be meeting?

To use each one's insult for the other.


But if the pResident fires those who opposed that meeting, then he will make things very hard on himself. He works rather little of the day, and it will be hard to find anyone who is both loyal to him and very skilled. When his own Secretary of State allegedly once called him a moron, one has to be suspicious.
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Didn’t hear that it was called off, but should not surprise anyone if it is.
 
I remember when Obama was running. He was asked specifically if he would sit down with various regimes (North Korea was one that was mentioned) without preconditions. He replied that (I'm paraphrasing here) he didn't see any harm in just talking, and didn't understand why preconditions were necessary to open dialog. (I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote)

Now, some of these same people supported that comment, but decry the idea that Trump should do so. As much as I despise Trump, that doesn't seem fair. Now, one could easily make the case that Obama is inherently more trustworthy and less inept than Trump. That much may be true.

Just pointing it out as I see it
 
braces_for_impact said:
I remember when Obama was running. He was asked specifically if he would sit down with various regimes (North Korea was one that was mentioned) without preconditions. He replied that (I'm paraphrasing here) he didn't see any harm in just talking, and didn't understand why preconditions were necessary to open dialog. (I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote)

Now, some of these same people supported that comment, but decry the idea that Trump should do so. As much as I despise Trump, that doesn't seem fair. Now, one could easily make the case that Obama is inherently more trustworthy and less inept than Trump. That much may be true.

Just pointing it out as I see it
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Excellent point. I just don't see Trump ever doing anything without preconditions. He could claim that he does (believe me), but I'm convinced he would walk into such a meeting with the mindset of "What am I, personally going to get out of this?" Anyone else, literally anyone else (McConnell, Romney, Bush, Ryan, hell even fucking Sarah Palin) would participate in such talks with some decorum and awareness, but with Trump, I can't help but think he would put his thumb on the scales. I have never seen someone so self absorbed be given so much power, influence and support and as such I'm not sure how the normal rules apply in such a circumstance.
 
Patooka said:
braces_for_impact said:
I remember when Obama was running. He was asked specifically if he would sit down with various regimes (North Korea was one that was mentioned) without preconditions. He replied that (I'm paraphrasing here) he didn't see any harm in just talking, and didn't understand why preconditions were necessary to open dialog. (I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote)

Now, some of these same people supported that comment, but decry the idea that Trump should do so. As much as I despise Trump, that doesn't seem fair. Now, one could easily make the case that Obama is inherently more trustworthy and less inept than Trump. That much may be true.

Just pointing it out as I see it
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Excellent point. I just don't see Trump ever doing anything without preconditions. He could claim that he does (believe me), but I'm convinced he would walk into such a meeting with the mindset of "What am I, personally going to get out of this?" Anyone else, literally anyone else (McConnell, Romney, Bush, Ryan, hell even fucking Sarah Palin) would participate in such talks with some decorum and awareness, but with Trump, I can't help but think he would put his thumb on the scales. I have never seen someone so self absorbed be given so much power, influence and support and as such I'm not sure how the normal rules apply in such a circumstance.
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Agreed.
 
I don't think this is a bad thing. Phew. There, I said it. I didn't even laugh while writing it.

Each narcissistic side has in its best interest to prove to its people that they won the meeting. Un wants some kind of assurance his regime won't be attacked. If he has it in writing, he will be giddy. Trump wants to bring corporations into NK but it's a longer term desire. Right now, he would settle for eliminating the nuclear threat...which would mean the GOP would declare him the Solutionator. Both sides will clearly use propaganda to declare victory, but something tangibly beneficial may come out of it.
 
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