Trump - Military Strike on Iran

[jonatha]

While I consider ordering and then rescinding the attack order to be very bad, at least the explanation he gives is coherent; it would be disproportionate to make an attack that would cause many deaths over a drone.

I assume he checked with Putin, who nixed it...

 

[steve_bank]

Iran can not get any more embolden. We removed Hussein who was the check on Iran. Iranian armed proxies are all over the region. Aggression against Iran especially killing civilians would become a battle cry in the region.

Lebanon is border line stable essentially occupied by Iran proxies. Oil traffic could be stopped. Uprismngs against the USA.

There are no good solutions in the region.

The only solution is to get ourselves completely intendant of anything from the region, withdraw, and let them slaughter each other until they get sick of it or run out of people.

If we withdraw then maybe the Europeans who need the oil may get off their asses and participate on the water. Shooting at the USA is one thing, shooting at the USA plus NATO countries is another.

As long as we back SA and Russia Iran they have no reason to compromise.

 

[Ford]

It is Trump trying to scare Iran probably. Showing that he is on the edge of attacking them, to get them to take him more seriously as a threat and back down?

I don't know if he's that clever. In fact I'm almost starting to think this was him actually having second thoughts/wimping out.

We know this was planned. The targets were chosen, orders were given, and the attack was launched. It's a pretty good bet that he was talked into ordering the strike by Bolton and Pompeo, who were probably behind the planning.

Then, 10 minutes after giving the order, he recalled it.

I find it hard to believe that Putin found out about the attack, rushed to his phone, and called Trump to stop it all within the space of 10 minutes. Or that one of the "cooler heads" rushed into the room and prevailed. They've pretty much been all run out of the White House.

We also know that Trump is good at changing his mind/contradicting himself...sometimes within the space of a single tweet. Now, I don't think he weighed the geopolitical consequences of the strike, or considered what an enormous undertaking a war with Iran would be, but he did change his mind. Completely screwed the pooch by announcing the strike and his rescinding of it, but somehow he managed to do the right thing eventually.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If something is not done, Iran will just get more and more emboldened. I think it was a mistake not to do a limted strike on an IRGC facility to show we mean business. Force is the only language these theocrats understand.

Trump's behavior here reminds me of how Kennedy was smart enough to not get involved in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Kennedy basically told his hawks to go pound salt. Maybe Trumpo's drum-beaters are feeling the same way. I hope so.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Take this with a grain of salt because it is from the Daily Beast...but the report says that the one who talked Trump back is Tucker Carlson.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-n...vises-trump-against-iran-war?via=twitter_page

So...I guess; Please clap for Tucker Carlson.

Mr. President, we need a final answer on this. Do we strike?
Um... yes. No, wait. I call a lifeline!
What?
I get one free call.
Do you mean to your lawyer? Sir, I...
Tucker, buddy, hey, hypothetical question, how would the news talk about me if i started a war? Uh huh.... uh huh... But what about the military? Budgets go up in wars and- what? We're STILL in Afghanistan? I thought i told Ivanka to... okay, yeah, yeah.
Click.
Mr President?
Put the war on hiatus for now.
You mean, cancel?
At least until next season.

 

[bilby]

If we withdraw then maybe the Europeans who need the oil may get off their asses and participate on the water. Shooting at the USA is one thing, shooting at the USA plus NATO countries is another.

I know Americans like to pretend that only America does anything, but the reality is that theatre security in the Gulf of Arabia is (and has been for fifteen years, since March 2004) the responsibility of a Combined Task Force (CTF152), a part of the 33 nation Combined Maritime Forces alliance (CMF), of which the US Navy is only a part.

CTF 152 consists of ships, aircraft and personnel from a range of nations including Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, UK and U.S, and has also included participation from Italy and Australia. Command of CTF 152 is rotated between participating nations on a three to twelve month basis.

(Source)

 

[steve_bank]

It is obvious Trump bellows but in the end shies away from actual confrontation face to face.

The fact that this is real with consequences and not TV may just be sinking in.

Opinion is divided. Some think he is crazy like a fox. Others report he has always been in the moment doing and saying what appears best for him in the moment. No planning. Evidenced by his business failures. He puts himself to triviasl things. Repainting Air Force 1, reviewing drape swatches in the oval office.

I figure he is terrified of failure. Iran is high risk.

 

[Elixir]

Some think he is crazy like a fox.

Like a Putin-fellating fox. If I had to bet, I'd bet that Pootey let Cheato know that attacking Iran is a no-no.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I don't care why he didn't attack Iran, I'm glad he didn't attack Iran. Whatever his reason, not attacking was the right thing to do.

Still...

I assume he checked with Putin, who nixed it...

That's just ridiculous. I understand I'm dealing with conspiracy theorists, but that's still just ridiculous.

 

[SLD]

I don't care why he didn't attack Iran, I'm glad he didn't attack Iran. Whatever his reason, not attacking was the right thing to do.

Still...

I assume he checked with Putin, who nixed it...

That's just ridiculous. I understand I'm dealing with conspiracy theorists, but that's still just ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous? tRump is Putin's bitch. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility that tRump is a long sleeper agent of the Russians. Thereve been a lot of suspicious activity in his past that indicates they own him. Sweetheart real estate deals in Manhattan and elsewhere. He was likely compromised decades ago with a honeypot black mail scheme the soviets routinely ran against western businessmen.

SLD

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm obviously dealing with a true believer in a conspiracy theory here.

Does Putin relay his orders via black helicopters? Could we free Trump from Putin's mind control if he wore a tinfoil hat? Which one of them was born in Kenya?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm obviously dealing with a true believer in a conspiracy theory here.

Does Putin relay his orders via black helicopters? Could we free Trump from Putin's mind control if he wore a tinfoil hat? Which one of them was born in Kenya?

How cute. You think derision equals counter-argumentation.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm obviously dealing with a true believer in a conspiracy theory here.

Does Putin relay his orders via black helicopters? Could we free Trump from Putin's mind control if he wore a tinfoil hat? Which one of them was born in Kenya?

How cute. You think derision equals counter-argumentation.

Did you take the birthers seriously? No, you didn't. Neither did I. You gave them the derision they deserved. So did I. I take this conspiracy theory just as seriously.

Flat Earthers, Moon Landing Hoaxers, Birthers, and Putin Controls Trump fools all deserve the same contempt. You don't argue against them, although you do occasionally use them as rhetorical target practice.

 

[laughing dog]

link

Well, it is being reported that a military strike was okay'd and then called back. The story says Trump was involved in both. One problem we have in America is that Trump effectively let the military off of their leash a while ago, so we have no idea who is wagging who.

Trump jumped the gun, but ultimately made the right call IMO when he found out the proposed action would cost lives. The shooting down of an unmanned drone is a provocation but it should be met with an appropriate and proportionate response, lest an unwanted escalation ensues.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm obviously dealing with a true believer in a conspiracy theory here.

Does Putin relay his orders via black helicopters? Could we free Trump from Putin's mind control if he wore a tinfoil hat? Which one of them was born in Kenya?

How cute. You think derision equals counter-argumentation.

Did you take the birthers seriously? No, you didn't.

Because it was easily disproved. That Putin has been puppeteering Trump, however, is not easily disproved. There is in fact significant evidence that exists to suggest Putin is the one calling most of Trump's shots, particularly when it comes to foreign policy.

If not to the level of the kind of conspiracy you're talking about, certainly along the lines of Trump openly admiring Putin and siding with Putin over our own intelligence community and basically publicly and privately sucking his cock over and over and over again, where it is not out of the question at all that if he called Putin and asked him what he would do, Trump would do whatever Putin would do.

The comment to which you were responding was, after all, simply this:

I assume he checked with Putin, who nixed it...

That does not necessitate a flat-earth-level conspiracy and is in perfect line with pretty much everything Trump has ever done or said in relation to Putin.

 

[bilby]

I'm obviously dealing with a true believer in a conspiracy theory here.

Does Putin relay his orders via black helicopters? Could we free Trump from Putin's mind control if he wore a tinfoil hat? Which one of them was born in Kenya?

How cute. You think derision equals counter-argumentation.

Did you take the birthers seriously? No, you didn't. Neither did I. You gave them the derision they deserved. So did I. I take this conspiracy theory just as seriously.

Flat Earthers, Moon Landing Hoaxers, Birthers, and Putin Controls Trump fools all deserve the same contempt. You don't argue against them, although you do occasionally use them as rhetorical target practice.

You have it arse-backwards. Conspiracy theories are not wrong because they are ridiculous; They are ridiculous because they are wrong.

The 'demonstrate them to be wrong' bit is essential - if you skip it, you will end up ridiculing things that are actually true.

Lots of true statements sound ridiculous. A single photon passes through both of two slits, unless you check to see which one it went through. It sounds far fetched; But it's true. The solid rock beneath our feet is in constant motion, and continents drift around on the surface of the Earth, occasionally crashing together or splitting apart. That was considered ludicrous when it was first suggested; But it's known to be factually correct.

The Earth is easily shown not to be flat. The evidence for the moon landings is overwhelming. The evidence that Obama was born in the USA and not in Kenya is compelling. We can laugh at the fools who disregard the evidence, because we have plenty of evidence to show that they are wrong; And because their counter evidence is laughably weak.

So, what's your evidence that makes it laughable that Trump might have been compromised by the Russians? Is it that you can show that the Russians don't attempt to compromise western businessmen? That Trump hasn't ever been in a situation where that could have occurred? That all US Presidents are superheroic figures with invincible integrity?

I am not sure that Trump has been compromised by the Russians; But I am sure that there's inadequate grounds to dismiss the possibility out of hand - it's not in the same 'easily disproven' category as the idea that 9-11 was an inside job, or that alien abductions are a regular event that is covered up by the authorities. And pretending that it is, to avoid having to put in the effort to find evidence, is intellectually lazy.

There are dozens of detailed and well evidenced debunkings available for the idea that the Earth is flat. As we both agree that it isn't, we can skip the part where you find and show us the evidence to support your position. But you are being intellectually dishonest if you declare that a question that is not yet resolved is in the same category, in order to avoid providing evidence for your claims.

 

[Derec]

Trump jumped the gun, but ultimately made the right call IMO when he found out the proposed action would cost lives. The shooting down of an unmanned drone is a provocation but it should be met with an appropriate and proportionate response, lest an unwanted escalation ensues.

What would be such a response?

Btw, I think the REAL reason Trump doesn't want to bomb Iran is that his nemesis suggested it first.

 

[SLD]

Did you take the birthers seriously? No, you didn't.

Because it was easily disproved. That Putin has been puppeteering Trump, however, is not easily disproved. There is in fact significant evidence that exists to suggest Putin is the one calling most of Trump's shots, particularly when it comes to foreign policy.

If not to the level of the kind of conspiracy you're talking about, certainly along the lines of Trump openly admiring Putin and siding with Putin over our own intelligence community and basically publicly and privately sucking his cock over and over and over again, where it is not out of the question at all that if he called Putin and asked him what he would do, Trump would do whatever Putin would do.

The comment to which you were responding was, after all, simply this:

I assume he checked with Putin, who nixed it...

That does not necessitate a flat-earth-level conspiracy and is in perfect line with pretty much everything Trump has ever done or said in relation to Putin.

Thank you. Spot on. It’s stunning that Jason would dismiss out of hand such a theory despite some serious circumstantial evidence of such. A simple google search shows numerous articles from respected journalists who have traced a line of bizarre actions by Trump since his first visit to Moscow in the 80’s. Some of these actions cost him significant money. Given that we know the Soviets regularly targeted businessmen with honeypots and given what we know about FFVC sexual behavior it’s hardly a stretch to see that he’s a Russian agent who was compromised a long time ago.

SLD

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

Well, it is being reported that a military strike was okay'd and then called back. The story says Trump was involved in both. One problem we have in America is that Trump effectively let the military off of their leash a while ago, so we have no idea who is wagging who.

Trump jumped the gun, but ultimately made the right call IMO when he found out the proposed action would cost lives. The shooting down of an unmanned drone is a provocation but it should be met with an appropriate and proportionate response, lest an unwanted escalation ensues.

Except his claim is full of garbage. How did the US manage to not kill any Syrians when they shot missiles at the airbase?

We have no idea who authorized the attack (if authorized) nor who stopped it (if it was authorized to begin with).

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Okay, sorry I blasphemed your true belief in this conspiracy theory.