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Trump: President Obama was born in the United States, period.

I certainly hope that someone gets around to asking Trump and/or his surrogates "what new information caused Trump to change his mind after five years of beating the birther drum?". So far I've seen that question raised between Trump critics, but nobody confronting the Camp Pain.
 
maxparrish said:
fast said:
Loath to do, sure, but no single person or group was a compelling force. I think he made the calculated decision that just so happened to coincide with what would feel like to many an overwhelming pressure. I don't think he buckled to the forces at hand. Rather, he came to the opinion that doing so would be in his best interest.
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My supposition is based on my knowledge of the various players bios, insider comments and leaks, and observed behavior of Trump in similar circumstances. As I explained the basis of my perception, might you explain the basis of you assertion that Trump was not strongly pressured (and scripted) by his controllers to do what is very atypical for him; i.e. to all but admit he was wrong?

I suggest you do a little research on the personea and dynamics of the trump campaign.
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What you say sounds like it's grounded in reason, and had your assessment been on someone else, I wouldn't be arguing against the components that's going into your anyslysis. The persuasive acumen of the players involved would have varying results dependent on the target of their attempted persuasion, but Trump is so significantly resistant to pressure that no matter their skill level, he will not give in to any such pressure. You may observe him acting as if he has caved to the demands of others, but although it's true that things are often just as they seem to be, things are sometimes not in fact what they seem to be--not much unlike how the seemingly emotional yet behaviorally leaned reactions of a psychopath is not in fact influenced by an innate ability to have empathy. And as far as what others say, they can be easily tricked.

As far as my assertion goes, let's not forget just what that is. Trump isn't being forced. Yes, he will adjust to circumstances, so in one sense it might be said that he is forced by circumstance, but what I'm saying is that he isn't being forced in the sense you espouse. It's not as if he doesn't have the will power to hang tough against the pressures of those that would try and convince him to act and say things differently than how he would typically speak and act.

Is he (occasionally) following a script laid out by those that would strongly encourage him to follow, yes, but the strength of the persuasion could reasonably mislead one to think he's being controlled if not for being privy to the insight that it's completely ineffective against him. The explanation for the disconnect stems from his unique ability/inability (not sure which).
 
maxparrish said:
As has been shown by all fact checkers, there has been NO EVIDENCE that HC or anyone in her campaign initiated the controversy. All that is known is that an anonymous email sparked birther speculation among those American voters who supported Hillary Clinton, and that one of the first lawsuits over Obama's birth certificate was filed by Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton.
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So the birther stuff was started by the Hillary supporters. Whether or not Hillary herself was involved can't be known for sure, but we do not it was her supporters who started it.
 
Derec said:
maxparrish said:
As has been shown by all fact checkers, there has been NO EVIDENCE that HC or anyone in her campaign initiated the controversy. All that is known is that an anonymous email sparked birther speculation among those American voters who supported Hillary Clinton, and that one of the first lawsuits over Obama's birth certificate was filed by Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton.
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So the birther stuff was started by the Hillary supporters. Whether or not Hillary herself was involved can't be known for sure, but we do not it was her supporters who started it.
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Nobody ever claimed Trump started the nonsense. To say he didn't is a strawman argument.

What people have said is that Trump used his brand to promote the nonsense for years.

And he only put it to bed this week, but not really. None of the racists that still believe Obama was not born in the US take his statement seriously. They don't care if the person they support lies to others.

That's what people don't understand.

Trump supporters do not care about silly things like the truth. They do not care about things like equal protection under the law. They want to hurt some people of color. Be it Mexicans digging ditches or Muslim children fleeing a war zone.
 
untermensche said:
Derec said:
So the birther stuff was started by the Hillary supporters. Whether or not Hillary herself was involved can't be known for sure, but we do not it was her supporters who started it.
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Nobody ever claimed Trump started the nonsense. To say he didn't is a strawman argument.

What people have said is that Trump used his brand to promote the nonsense for years.

And he only put it to bed this week, but not really. None of the racists that still believe Obama was not born in the US take his statement seriously. They don't care if the person they support lies to others.

That's what people don't understand.

Trump supporters do not care about silly things like the truth. They do not care about things like equal protection under the law. They want to hurt some people of color. Be it Mexicans digging ditches or Muslim children fleeing a war zone.
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They don't care nor do they SUPPORT equal protection. They disagree with the law.
 
Nobody asked what a handful of people believe.

Americans are by and large uninformed.

Trump is evidence of that.

But what specific untruth do Hillary supporters cling to the way Trump clung to the nonsense about Obama's birth? Until it got to the point he would actually have to answer questions about it.

Why has Obama not opened his concentration camps yet? What is he waiting for?

Where are Obama's death panels? How does he keep them so secret?
 
untermensche said:
Nobody asked what a handful of people believe.

Americans are by and large uninformed.

Trump is evidence of that.

But what specific untruth do Hillary supporters cling to the way Trump clung to the nonsense about Obama's birth? Until it got to the point he would actually have to answer questions about it.

Why has Obama not opened his concentration camps yet? What is he waiting for?

Where are Obama's death panels? How does he keep them so secret?
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Ya know, I don't imagine that many Trump supporters care about Obama's birth at all. It's just "what a handful of people" believed. It's like how many Hillary supporters don't care about her untruths regarding emails (despite the rebuke by the FBI). Partisanship is partisanship. The Trump campaign has no monopoly on that.
 
Trausti said:
untermensche said:
Nobody asked what a handful of people believe.

Americans are by and large uninformed.

Trump is evidence of that.

But what specific untruth do Hillary supporters cling to the way Trump clung to the nonsense about Obama's birth? Until it got to the point he would actually have to answer questions about it.

Why has Obama not opened his concentration camps yet? What is he waiting for?

Where are Obama's death panels? How does he keep them so secret?
Click to expand...

Ya know, I don't imagine that many Trump supporters care about Obama's birth at all. It's just "what a handful of people" believed. It's like how many Hillary supporters don't care about her untruths regarding emails (despite the rebuke by the FBI). Partisanship is partisanship. The Trump campaign has no monopoly on that.
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The many racist Trump supporters care a lot about Obama's birth.

What lie about emails are Hillary's supporters clinging to?

Remind me again of all the people harmed by Hillary's emails. Why is it more than a lesson for what not what to do after the fact?
 
untermensche said:
Trausti said:
Ya know, I don't imagine that many Trump supporters care about Obama's birth at all. It's just "what a handful of people" believed. It's like how many Hillary supporters don't care about her untruths regarding emails (despite the rebuke by the FBI). Partisanship is partisanship. The Trump campaign has no monopoly on that.
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The many racist Trump supporters care a lot about Obama's birth.

What lie about emails are Hillary's supporters clinging to?

Remind me again of all the people harmed by Hillary's emails. Why is it more than a lesson for what not what to do after the fact?
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Dude, I didn't realize you were a Hillary partisan. A bit surprising you'd be so forcefully for the establishment candidate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/31/clintons-claim-that-the-fbi-director-said-her-email-answers-were-truthful/
 
Elixir said:
I certainly hope that someone gets around to asking Trump and/or his surrogates "what new information caused Trump to change his mind after five years of beating the birther drum?". So far I've seen that question raised between Trump critics, but nobody confronting the Camp Pain.
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Maybe one of our resident Trumpsters can tell me what new information made teh Donald change his mind after eight years of beating the drum.
But probably not, because they know that Trump knew long long ago that he was pushing a lie. Didn't he, Trumpsters? I don't know why that fact doesn't bother his acolytes...
 
Trausti said:
untermensche said:
The many racist Trump supporters care a lot about Obama's birth.

What lie about emails are Hillary's supporters clinging to?

Remind me again of all the people harmed by Hillary's emails. Why is it more than a lesson for what not what to do after the fact?
Click to expand...

Dude, I didn't realize you were a Hillary partisan. A bit surprising you'd be so forcefully for the establishment candidate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/31/clintons-claim-that-the-fbi-director-said-her-email-answers-were-truthful/
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I'm asking questions and very anti-Trump.

Again, who exactly was harmed by Hillary's emails?

And which lie about them are people clinging to?

She's as shifty as her husband and nothing but the better of two evils to me.

But she is not a pathological liar and somebody who claims he put the birther nonsense to rest when all he did was fan the flames of ignorance with the issue for years.
 
Elixir said:
maxparrish said:
Such it the cost of electing someone with borderline personality disorder.
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Borderline? BORDELINE??
The moron is batshit crazy, PERIOD.
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FYI - "Borderline" does not refer to being "just barely crazy," or just on the border of crazy. It refers to personality excursions back and forth across the borderline. Massive swings, unstable relationships, inconsistent functioning. Sometimes on the normal functioning level, other times way way waaaaay over the border. I was confused about this the first time I encountered it, too. But knowing about the excursions makes more sense.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml

I personally don't think this fits Trump, though. He fits Narcissistic Personality Disorder to a TEE, though.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568
 
Elixir said:
Elixir said:
I certainly hope that someone gets around to asking Trump and/or his surrogates "what new information caused Trump to change his mind after five years of beating the birther drum?". So far I've seen that question raised between Trump critics, but nobody confronting the Camp Pain.
Click to expand...

Maybe one of our resident Trumpsters can tell me what new information made teh Donald change his mind after eight years of beating the drum.
But probably not, because they know that Trump knew long long ago that he was pushing a lie. Didn't he, Trumpsters? I don't know why that fact doesn't bother his acolytes...
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I'm still waiting to hear what his people he sent to Hawaii found out. "You wouldn't believe what they're finding!"
 
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