Trump's plan to fix higher education

[RVonse]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr.

p.s. I missed this part.

You know JFK Jr is dead, right?

Meant to type RFK Jr. The late Robert Kennedy's son.

 

[RVonse]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr. It is what you would call Democrat democracy where the incumbent president is automatically installed for another term. After all, it works good for Putin in Russia. If you like how your life and the country is going, its ok to let Biden sleep in his basement again during the next election. Because we know the Democrats know how to steal elections anyway.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of incumbent presidents who don't debate other contenders in their party? I've done a little research and I might have some bad news for you.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Democrats have decided that Biden will be nominated so there will be no Democrat debates from any challengers. Nothing matters but Biden at this point. I'm not a big fan of the Republican party either....but at least they will be putting on dog and pony shows and debating for better ideas with many candidates to give us all an illusion that there is democracy taking place in the US.

 

[Ford]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr.

p.s. I missed this part.

You know JFK Jr is dead, right?

Meant to type RFK Jr. The late Robert Kennedy's son.

Noted. Now can you elaborate on how you figure Trump's "plan" to fix the entire educational system hinges on Biden's alleged unwillingness to debate RFK Jr.

"A ha! You won't step in the ring with Bobby Jr! Finally, our college debt problem is solved!!!"

 

[RVonse]

Taxpayer supported for-profit private schools! See, public schools are "socialism," what with your tax dollars going to pay public teachers working in public buildings, but where's the profit in that? Conservatives want the tax dollars to go directly into the pockets of businesses who sell education to the highest bidder (totally NOT socialism!), because the most important thing is profit...with education being a distant second. Of course, tax money going into the pockets of private enterprise isn't going to do the whole job, so we have to give tax breaks to exclusive private schools so more affluent parents can have their kids go to a place with the word "Academy" in the name and where little Ashley won't have to sit next to a kid whose parents don't make enough to afford private school! It's a win-win!

Public paid secondary education is a very good suggestion and certainly better than what there is today. With the caveat to flunk out early (with fairness) based on grades the people who really were not college material.

That would certainly be better than school debt that can never be paid off.

 

[RVonse]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr.

p.s. I missed this part.

You know JFK Jr is dead, right?

Meant to type RFK Jr. The late Robert Kennedy's son.

Noted. Now can you elaborate on how you figure Trump's "plan" to fix the entire educational system hinges on Biden's alleged unwillingness to debate RFK Jr.

"A ha! You won't step in the ring with Bobby Jr! Finally, our college debt problem is solved!!!"

Whether it is education, healthcare, or some other ill of this country...its not going to be fixed unless ideas are openly discussed and debated. I'm not saying RFK jr. has all the answers either but we will never know if he does not get a platform to bring his ideas forward.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is this thing called the Internet, Cable News, Print Media. This is where actual ideas are shared! No ideas are ever shared in a fucking debate!

 

[blastula]

I never knew all ideas have to be run by RFK Jr. first.

Rvonse, were you upset that Trump didn't have any debates during the 2020 election campaign? Are you upset that Trump is saying he will be skipping some debates for the 2024 election? Why isn't Trump debating RFK Jr?

 

[Ford]

Taxpayer supported for-profit private schools! See, public schools are "socialism," what with your tax dollars going to pay public teachers working in public buildings, but where's the profit in that? Conservatives want the tax dollars to go directly into the pockets of businesses who sell education to the highest bidder (totally NOT socialism!), because the most important thing is profit...with education being a distant second. Of course, tax money going into the pockets of private enterprise isn't going to do the whole job, so we have to give tax breaks to exclusive private schools so more affluent parents can have their kids go to a place with the word "Academy" in the name and where little Ashley won't have to sit next to a kid whose parents don't make enough to afford private school! It's a win-win!

Public paid secondary education is a very good suggestion and certainly better than what there is today. With the caveat to flunk out early (with fairness) based on grades the people who really were not college material.

That would certainly be better than school debt that can never be paid off.

Um...I think you may have swung your bat at that football and missed.

The blurb you quoted was not me saying "this is a great idea to fix everything." It was sarcasm. But let's set that aside for a moment and say that you kind of inadvertently stumbled across the actual solution.

Publicly paid primary and secondary education. Free basic higher education. Want to go to a state 4 year university or community college? Great. Don't worry about the tuition. You pay your room and board if it's not in your hometown, but other than food and rent, it's free. Want to go to Harvard? Well that's gonna be out of the state budget, so you'll have to make up the difference, but here's some very low cost student loans that can be forgiven depending on your situation.

The "school debt that can never be paid off" is due to a couple of basic problems. First off, schools have figured out that they can essentially charge whatever the fuck they want. Tuition at Central Redneck State University is now equivalent to what you might have paid for Yale a couple decades ago. Second, the student loan system is - and I'm going to type this slowly - rigged so that it can (in your words) never be paid off. Student loans last as long as a traditional mortgage, but unlike a mortgage cannot be discharged via bankruptcy. Graduate from Southern Football College with 100k of debt and get hit by a bus coming back from the ceremony? Your "estate" will owe that money forever. That needs to stop.

The Biden student loan debt forgiveness program is a small but significant first step. Get rid of the debt, and get rid of a system that puts young people in inescapable debt in the first place. Make community college and state college tuition free at taxpayer expense, and make debt for more "elite" universities affordable and more easily discharged.

Or as you'll probably call it, "socialism." There's your solution. You're welcome.

 

[scombrid]

Who actually crafted this policy? It's far beyond anything Trump is capable of creating. If we look at Trump's record, we see Betsy DeVos, his Secretary of Education, who was making money off of student loans.

I wonder if anyone told Trump that accreditation agencies are privately owned companies that are approved by the Secretary of Education. Accreditation by these agencies is critical for receiving Federal funds. so it's serious business.

I'm going to jump the gun and declare Trump's "plan to fix higher education" is actually his "I'm dumber than DeSantes policy" statement.

These are all worthwhile questions to be asking on your part. But sadly they are also questions that will not be answered or looked into by any Democrats. Because Democrats are owned by the colleges today.

Colleges own Democrats?

 

[scombrid]

On cost? The loan system is fucked and rigged so that people that need the loans to attend university either are forced to opt out or carry huge debt for going to what we’re once heavily subsidized and affordable to the common man state schools. Rich people don’t want non rich people to have a means to advance their station. Back when I went to a southern state university I paid tuition for an entire year with money from a summer job plus working during fall, winter, and spring breaks. Can’t do that now. State government is badly underfunding universities compared to back then and college presidents and boards have taken advantage of the loan system to build a bunch of fancy shit and run up costs.

 

[Patooka]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr. It is what you would call Democrat democracy where the incumbent president is automatically installed for another term. After all, it works good for Putin in Russia. If you like how your life and the country is going, its ok to let Biden sleep in his basement again during the next election. Because we know the Democrats know how to steal elections anyway.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of incumbent presidents who don't debate other contenders in their party? I've done a little research and I might have some bad news for you.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Democrats have decided that Biden will be nominated so there will be no Democrat debates from any challengers. Nothing matters but Biden at this point. I'm not a big fan of the Republican party either....but at least they will be putting on dog and pony shows and debating for better ideas with many candidates to give us all an illusion that there is democracy taking place in the US.

Seeing as you insist on being willfully ignorant, I'll spell things out for you. Back in 2020, Bill Weld, Rocky De La Fuente, Joe Walsh and Mark Sanford all put their names down in the Republican Primary. Which one of these people did your lord and saviour Trump debate when he was incumbent President? If this is such a big deal for you, why did you say fuck all back then?

 

[laughing dog]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr. It is what you would call Democrat democracy where the incumbent president is automatically installed for another term. After all, it works good for Putin in Russia. If you like how your life and the country is going, its ok to let Biden sleep in his basement again during the next election. Because we know the Democrats know how to steal elections anyway.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of incumbent presidents who don't debate other contenders in their party? I've done a little research and I might have some bad news for you.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Democrats have decided that Biden will be nominated so there will be no Democrat debates from any challengers.

You are wrong. At this writing, no official decision has been made about the 2024 Democratic Party's nominee for President.

 

[Ford]

And while were on the subject of the Democrats NOT providing any solutions for middle class people moving forward, its also too bad Biden does not even have the balls to debate JFK jr. It is what you would call Democrat democracy where the incumbent president is automatically installed for another term. After all, it works good for Putin in Russia. If you like how your life and the country is going, its ok to let Biden sleep in his basement again during the next election. Because we know the Democrats know how to steal elections anyway.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of incumbent presidents who don't debate other contenders in their party? I've done a little research and I might have some bad news for you.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Democrats have decided that Biden will be nominated so there will be no Democrat debates from any challengers.

You are wrong. At this writing, no official decision has been made about the 2024 Democratic Party's nominee for President.

He's wrong about the official decision, but it is not unreasonable to assume that - if there's no drastic changes in the political landscape over the next year - Biden will be the favorite for the Democratic nomination. If he becomes unable to carry out his duties, there's a pretty good chance they'll go with Harris in his stead.

Along the same lines, Trump is basically a lock for the GOP nod. The only way he loses if is he dies. The GOP primary voters will support him even harder if he's under even more indictments (looking likely) and if he were found guilty and sentenced they'd line up to vote for him in droves. The guy can come out with a 2+ minute video talking about his "plans" to fix something and his idiot followers will lap it up like manna from heaven and post it to every available platform.

Which brings us back to the OP.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hold higher institutions accountable for getting rid of extra and needless administration,

How will we determine what's needless? Will stuff be just declared needless if Trump can't, won't, or doesn't understand its purpose?

Or should we set up an administrative committee to look into what is needed and what is needless?

If it is not a professor or someone else actually teaching a student, they really aren't needed.

Simplistic and wrong.

I've been an employee of a college while I was a student there. My job description in no way involved the slightest bit of teaching. That doesn't make my job a waste--the computer labs don't run themselves.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Taxpayer supported for-profit private schools! See, public schools are "socialism," what with your tax dollars going to pay public teachers working in public buildings, but where's the profit in that? Conservatives want the tax dollars to go directly into the pockets of businesses who sell education to the highest bidder (totally NOT socialism!), because the most important thing is profit...with education being a distant second. Of course, tax money going into the pockets of private enterprise isn't going to do the whole job, so we have to give tax breaks to exclusive private schools so more affluent parents can have their kids go to a place with the word "Academy" in the name and where little Ashley won't have to sit next to a kid whose parents don't make enough to afford private school! It's a win-win!

Public paid secondary education is a very good suggestion and certainly better than what there is today. With the caveat to flunk out early (with fairness) based on grades the people who really were not college material.

That would certainly be better than school debt that can never be paid off.

I really hope we don't flunk people out early from secondary education. What you no doubt mean here is tertiary education.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is this thing called the Internet, Cable News, Print Media. This is where actual ideas are shared! No ideas are ever shared in a fucking debate!

Debates actually do have some value--they make it clearer who is actually addressing issues rather than whitewashing.

However, I consider a debate where they are actually standing there pretty superficial--I would like to see a government-funded website to replace it. Every candidate is expected to put their position on the website but any other candidate may attach a rebuttal link to anything a candidate posts. Do a poll every month asking for what are the most important issues, each candidate is expected to address anything that makes say the top 10. (There may be more than 10 issues because it counts anything that makes the top 10 in any poll.)

What I would really like to see (but would require a constitutional amendment) would be to restrict campaigns to that plus personal appearances, nothing else. You run on your position, not on charisma.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The "school debt that can never be paid off" is due to a couple of basic problems. First off, schools have figured out that they can essentially charge whatever the fuck they want. Tuition at Central Redneck State University is now equivalent to what you might have paid for Yale a couple decades ago. Second, the student loan system is - and I'm going to type this slowly - rigged so that it can (in your words) never be paid off. Student loans last as long as a traditional mortgage, but unlike a mortgage cannot be discharged via bankruptcy. Graduate from Southern Football College with 100k of debt and get hit by a bus coming back from the ceremony? Your "estate" will owe that money forever. That needs to stop.

Your estate will have nothing, the debt vanishes. I've handled an estate before, even with money in the estate the creditors that didn't follow the rules got nothing. (Morons, all you had to do was file with the court as I told you. But, no, you had to harass me instead--and the clock ran out. I felt no obligation to pay the assholes that had been harassing me.)

 

[bilby]

Hold higher institutions accountable for getting rid of extra and needless administration,

How will we determine what's needless? Will stuff be just declared needless if Trump can't, won't, or doesn't understand its purpose?

Or should we set up an administrative committee to look into what is needed and what is needless?

If it is not a professor or someone else actually teaching a student, they really aren't needed.

Simplistic and wrong.

I've been an employee of a college while I was a student there. My job description in no way involved the slightest bit of teaching. That doesn't make my job a waste--the computer labs don't run themselves.

The floors likely don't mop themselves, the janitors almost certainly don't hire or manage themselves, the professors have far better things to do with their time than collecting fees from students (and chasing up those who failed to pay on time), etc., etc., etc.

That anyone could be so blissfully unaware of what's needed in an education system, while believing they have something useful to contribute to a discussion of what is needed in an education system, is (ironically) a dreadful indictment of the state of your education system.

 

[Bronzeage]

Who actually crafted this policy? It's far beyond anything Trump is capable of creating. If we look at Trump's record, we see Betsy DeVos, his Secretary of Education, who was making money off of student loans.

I wonder if anyone told Trump that accreditation agencies are privately owned companies that are approved by the Secretary of Education. Accreditation by these agencies is critical for receiving Federal funds. so it's serious business.

I'm going to jump the gun and declare Trump's "plan to fix higher education" is actually his "I'm dumber than DeSantes policy" statement.

These are all worthwhile questions to be asking on your part. But sadly they are also questions that will not be answered or looked into by any Democrats. Because Democrats are owned by the colleges today.

There was only one question, and that was, "Who actually crafted this policy?"

I think you have revealed the goal of Trump's shadowy policy wonks, which is to own colleges. In order to excite their base, they claim Democrats own colleges, which is from the same mother's basement that brought us the idea Joe Biden sets gas prices.

What we have here is a pointless statement, thick on buzz words and thin on actual substance, which a college educated person can see through. That's the real problem here. Republicans do not appeal to educated people. They can't come out and say, "Educated people think our ideas are stupid", so they have to attack education and cut off the supply of educated people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Republicans do appeal to educated people. Lots of educated conservatives out there. Even ones good at math. They connect on social inertia, 1960s racism, and by convincing these people we don't need to pay for stuff.

For schools, the GOP is trying to kill public schooling (a cornerstone of our nation for longer than it has been a country), so they can own the teachers, own the schools, own the message. I think the college angle is more about just giving their base something else to wet their pants over on their way to the voting booth.