University of Minnesota Sexual Assault Case

[RavenSky]

The problem is that you assume she is lying.

The cop says the video looks consensual. We have all the elements of a typical regret case. That's why I conclude she's lying.

I asked you before, and you have pointedly ignored that post...

You claim "cop says the video looks consensual". WHO is on the video tape? Specifically which people. WHO do you claim the cops say the victim had what appears to be consensual sex with?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Why do you assume these are amateurs? How much training do the police get in investigation? They college investigators do get extensive training as required by law. Also, apparently (as I found out this morning through private sources) this has happened before with these same individuals, but they were able to escape any repercussions.

You really think the University investigators are going to be better at investigating that people who have gone to school and do it full time???

Police go to school to learn to investigate rape specifically? And we have enough rapes for full time investigator? Man, society is so fucked.

 

[ZiprHead]

per Google.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You seem to be offering a lot of rape apologetics there. If those guys were drunk they were not capable of giving consent.

Nope. You seem to be unable to understand the written word.

You didn't answer the question, Toni. Were those drunk guys capable of giving consent or not? You have subsequently twisted and turned to explain that she didn't necessarily give consent. Did the guys?

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So, here's the deal... every time you or Derec posts anything else in this thread that is not factually accurate, I am going to call you out on it. And I will not be polite about it.

And will you do the same in regard to Toni? I think not. Derec and LP are at least making attempts at presenting evidence (weak as it may be). Toni is emoting.

 

[TSwizzle]

You didn't answer the question, Toni. Were those drunk guys capable of giving consent or not?

It's a daft question, for the guys, there was no consent to be given.

 

[RavenSky]

So, here's the deal... every time you or Derec posts anything else in this thread that is not factually accurate, I am going to call you out on it. And I will not be polite about it.

And will you do the same in regard to Toni? I think not. Derec and LP are at least making attempts at presenting evidence (weak as it may be). Toni is emoting.

You are free to call out Toni or anyone else you want, but if you think Derec (especially) or Loren are doing anything other than nonsensical emoting, you clearly have not been reading a damned thing they've written.

I will say this to Toni and others, however: this case has nothing to do with drunk vs consent because this case was not about whether the victim was drunk.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The plot thickens with the leaked report:
http://www.startribune.com/county-a...-involving-gopher-football-players/407645876/

Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Tuesday he will review the investigation conducted by the University of Minnesota following sexual assault accusations levied against several Gophers football players.

Following the police investigation, Freeman's office announced in early October that no charges would be brought in the case.

"There is insufficient, admissible evidence for prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that either force was used or that the victim was physically helpless as defined by law in the sexual encounter," his office said in a news release at the time.

 

[laughing dog]

Nope. You seem to be unable to understand the written word.

You didn't answer the question, Toni. Were those drunk guys capable of giving consent or not? You have subsequently twisted and turned to explain that she didn't necessarily give consent. Did the guys?...

Yet another white knight of alleged male rapists who has not read the reports and who has no fucking clue what happened or who was disciplined for what offense. Why do white knights of alleged male rapists jump at any opportunity to obscure the facts? Hmmm.

And will you do the same in regard to Toni? I think not. Derec and LP are at least making attempts at presenting evidence (weak as it may be). Toni is emoting.

If Toni is emoting, Derec and LP are meta-emoting and you are simply bullshitting.

 

[Toni]

Nope. You seem to be unable to understand the written word.

You didn't answer the question, Toni. Were those drunk guys capable of giving consent or not?

Who is claiming the guys were drunk? Did they claim they were too drunk to know what was going on? That she trapped them? That she was just too much for even one of the 10 or so guys to escape and get help? Or to fight her off?

They raped her. She didn't give consent, with or without any consumption of alcohol. If she had consented, they'd have had that on video, for sure.

You have subsequently twisted and turned to explain that she didn't necessarily give consent.

What are you going on about? You must speak a funny kind of English up there in Canada.

The amount of alcohol she admitted to drinking before and during the various parties would have rendered her quite intoxicated. Her intoxication is further marked by the fact that two football players guided her into an unoccupied room. Observers thought it was for sexual purposes but she claims not to have understood that at all. That part seems to be missing from those loooooong video clips. It's hard to understand why they missed her consent. After all, they totaled 90 seconds! AMPLE time to demonstrate that she willingly had sex with what? 10 guys? Boy were they fast! Faster than most young guys.

As far as I know, no one has claimed that the football players were drunk. Or drinking. Only that they are rapists. Also that they violated university policy and the policies of their football program.

We've since learned that this is not their first time at this. Must have been why they so carefully documented their performances. Next time, I'll bet they get her consent on video. Unless there is no consent. I know which way I'm guessing it will play out.

There will be a next time. Guaranteed.

And will you do the same in regard to Toni? I think not. Derec and LP are at least making attempts at presenting evidence (weak as it may be). Toni is emoting.

See, this is where you completely show your hand. You and Loren and others of your ilk are extremely fond of implying that weak minded women are totally unable to use logic or facts or reasoning: it's all emotion with us. That's what you all say whenever you cannot possibly make an actual point.

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You didn't answer the question, Toni. Were those drunk guys capable of giving consent or not?

It's a daft question, for the guys, there was no consent to be given.

Exactly. Drunk girl = no consent necessary. If she didn't want to pull a train, she shouldn't have gotten drunk.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You really think the University investigators are going to be better at investigating that people who have gone to school and do it full time???

University investigators have gone to school. And it is quite possible that the people who have only one case to deal with, will spend more time doing an in-depth investigation. But instead of spouting your kneejerk assumptions, read the University report and see
1) what was alleged,
2) how many men were involved,
3) who the university found credible and their reasons why,
4) what the findings of the university are, and
5) what that disciplinary actions are for

How much training have they had in investigation? And how much of their day is spent on it?

I haven't read the university report because I have no reason to think it's anywhere near as accurate as the police report.

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You really think the University investigators are going to be better at investigating that people who have gone to school and do it full time???

Police go to school to learn to investigate rape specifically? And we have enough rapes for full time investigator? Man, society is so fucked.

They learn to investigate.

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View attachment 9153

per Google.

And then they have field training. And then they have experience before they get promoted to detective.

 

[laughing dog]

I haven't read the university report because I have no reason to think it's anywhere near as accurate as the police report.

You have been given reasons. But, you choose to remain ignorant. Of course, until you read the University report, there is no reason to take any of your comments on University's action seriously, because you admit to being completely ignorant of the situation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I haven't read the university report because I have no reason to think it's anywhere near as accurate as the police report.

You have been given reasons. But, you choose to remain ignorant. Of course, until you read the University report, there is no reason to take any of your comments on University's action seriously, because you admit to being completely ignorant of the situation.

I have been given no reason to think they are anywhere near as competent as the cops are.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You have been given reasons. But, you choose to remain ignorant. Of course, until you read the University report, there is no reason to take any of your comments on University's action seriously, because you admit to being completely ignorant of the situation.

I have been given no reason to think they are anywhere near as competent as the cops are.

Well since they cannot collect physical evidence, but also don't have to meet the same standards of evidence nor can they meet out any punishment beyond expulsion.

 

[laughing dog]

You have been given reasons. But, you choose to remain ignorant. Of course, until you read the University report, there is no reason to take any of your comments on University's action seriously, because you admit to being completely ignorant of the situation.

I have been given no reason to think they are anywhere near as competent as the cops are.

Of course you have. The police have many cases to deal with while these investigators are only looking at one.

And the police can and do make mistakes. For example, here is an example of the treatment a U. of Mn. rape victim received (http://www.startribune.com/after-authorities-did-not-charge-her-rapist-u-student-fought-back/398051931/) by the Minneapolis police. Since you cannot be bothered to read a story, the synopsis is that the police did not believe her, but she persevered and finally got someone to take her seriously. The end result is that the rapist confessed to a series of rapes. Or you may recall Ravensky's OP about the police who bullied an actual rape victim into recanting.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I have been given no reason to think they are anywhere near as competent as the cops are.

Well since they cannot collect physical evidence, but also don't have to meet the same standards of evidence nor can they meet out any punishment beyond expulsion.

So, they use less evidence and have lower standards. That inspires confidence in the higher quality of their results.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Well since they cannot collect physical evidence, but also don't have to meet the same standards of evidence nor can they meet out any punishment beyond expulsion.

So, they use less evidence and have lower standards. That inspires confidence in the higher quality of their results.

They cannot incarcerate them or fine them or put them on a sex offenders list. These guys should be happy they didn't get any of these punishments.

 

[RavenSky]

I haven't read the university report because I have no reason to think it's anywhere near as accurate as the police report.

As usual... you are mouthing off on a topic that you have not bothered to actually learn anything about.

Read the university report, or shut the fuck up about it - because all of your prattling on about the men on the video being expelled for rape is FUCKING FACTUALLY WRONG and your would KNOW THAT if you READ THE REPORT!!!!!

If you can't be bothered to do that, then kindly don't be bothered with posting in this thread again. Your willful ignorance is stomach-turning

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I haven't read the university report because I have no reason to think it's anywhere near as accurate as the police report.

You have been given reasons. But, you choose to remain ignorant. Of course, until you read the University report, there is no reason to take any of your comments on University's action seriously, because you admit to being completely ignorant of the situation.

You are so much more tolerant and polite than I am

 

[RavenSky]

Well since they cannot collect physical evidence, but also don't have to meet the same standards of evidence nor can they meet out any punishment beyond expulsion.

So, they use less evidence and have lower standards. That inspires confidence in the higher quality of their results.

Tom, did you read the university's report? I am wondering because this back and forth about "same standards of evidence" doesn't apply to this case. The two men on the video tapes were not expelled for rape/non-consensual sex.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, they use less evidence and have lower standards. That inspires confidence in the higher quality of their results.

They cannot incarcerate them or fine them or put them on a sex offenders list. These guys should be happy they didn't get any of these punishments.

Ya, because the people who can give those punishments didn't find sufficient evidence of wrongdoing. I don't have confidence that lower standards by less trained people lead to better results.

 

[laughing dog]

They cannot incarcerate them or fine them or put them on a sex offenders list. These guys should be happy they didn't get any of these punishments.

Ya, because the people who can give those punishments didn't find sufficient evidence of wrongdoing. I don't have confidence that lower standards by less trained people lead to better results.

Your assumption of lower training is unwarranted. Your assumption that the police take these cases as seriously as the University and devote as much time and effort into the investigation is unwarranted.