US House Panel Hearing on UFO/UAP sightings/reports

[mattsidedish]

A few days ago, the US House assembled a special panel to hear testimony from 3 witnesses (whistleblowers) about their experiences witnessing UAP's during their service. Technically, one witness didn't actually witness anything, but he was a leading intelligence official in dealing with reports of this nature and has a seemingly vast knowledge of them and coverup methods used by the government and large corporations to keep the information from reaching the public. I'll post a link to the full video of the hearing at the bottom. Careful, it's 2 hours long.

My main question hear is what you all think about not just these witnesses and their statements, but about the long history of these sightings and reports from individuals over the years, including US Presidents, basically all saying the same thing. That there are craft from somewhere outside Earth visiting our atmosphere containing non-human (or even Earthlian) life, and even that there have been crash sites found and vehicles recovered. I know the possibilities are endless as to what the real story could be, but spending 80+ years in a worldwide coverup makes me beg the question, what is the real reason? Information so dark and damning that knowledge of it would make us not want to continue our daily lives? Or possibilities so endless that we would do the same? Either way, there is a lot we're not being told.

I know many of you aren't from the US, but the issue doesn't just pertain to one country (or planet obviously), but what are your thoughts? Is the government selfish by keeping this information from the public? Could it actually threaten our national security so much that any inkling of information would actually put us in danger? Are these and other witnesses full of crap/looking for 15 minutes of fame? Let's here it.

Here's the Youtube link to the full 2 hour hearing

 

[Shadowy Man]

If there are actually aliens here then they (the aliens) clearly don’t want their presence to be public knowledge. Presumably they could make themselves known with no problem or ambiguity. So, that means they’ve come from interstellar distances or through interdimensional portals and crashed their ships multiple times for decades and don’t seem to mind people taking about it. I know that we can’t expect to understand the way aliens might think but this seems to stretch the imagination.

I’ll go with Richard Feynman:

“from my knowledge of the world I see around me…I think it much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence rather than the unknown actions of extraterrestrial intelligence.”

Excuse me if the quote isn’t exact.

 

[mattsidedish]

If there are actually aliens here then they (the aliens) clearly don’t want their presence to be public knowledge. Presumably they could make themselves known with no problem or ambiguity. So, that means they’ve come from interstellar distances or through interdimensional portals and crashed their ships multiple times for decades and don’t seem to mind people taking about it. I know that we can’t expect to understand the way aliens might think but this seems to stretch the imagination.

I’ll go with Richard Feynman:

“from my knowledge of the world I see around me…I think it much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence rather than the unknown actions of extraterrestrial intelligence.”

Excuse me if the quote isn’t exact.

It's a fair point; if they wanted to be known about it would take very little effort to just land one of their supposed craft in the middle of Times Square. I's also possible that whatever powers do know something about them, possibly even communicate with them, are in some sort of accord to allow them to do whatever it is they're doing here without blowing the whistle, and covering up whatever tracks they leave inconsequentially. I'm not actually convinced of this, just letting my mind wander a little.

As to the quote, it's also a good point. But what struck me is what David Fravor said during the hearing (a former Navy Commander who was present during the "Tic Tac" UAP sighting in 2004). Without quoting, he described the maneuvers of the flying pill-shaped vessel as erratic and insanely fast. Far faster than any modern technology or propulsion systems that we or anyone on Earth has today. And it did so with no wings and no thermal exhaust or thrust signatures. A lot of sightings going back pre-80's described vessels hovering over certain areas and then suddenly and rapidly leaving the area, almost instantaneously. Before this hearing I was pretty convinced that there were tests going on for advanced craft and that would obviously be good reason to hush the sightings and crashes of such craft, but the way he (and others) describe the movements seem far beyond anything we're currently capable of, and even farther further than what a human could endure inside of one of these craft. Not to say they couldn't be un-manned of course.

 

[ZiprHead]

A craft with those characteristics would not only need to use some form of faster than light propulsion but also need to control the gravity from ALL directions at once instantaneously to avoid the occupants becoming grease stains on the hull from the instantaneous acceleration.

 

[Jayjay]

If there really were these kinds of events happening on a regular basis, wouldn't the US air force or NSA or CIA have come up with a way to test the hypothesis by installing recording devices on every airplane (heck, that's probably standard in modern aircraft anyway) that would catch these "pill-shaped vessel" sightings on camera and radar instead of having to rely on hearsay from the pilots? You know, if they were alien ships, wouldn't that be the absolute highest priority thing that should be either confirmed or ruled out?

All you need is to see the phenomenon in two different aircraft, or from ground, at the same time, to be fairly confident that it's not imagined by just one person.

 

[Ford]

I used to live in New Mexico. Home of both the "Roswell Incident" and the Trinity Site. White Sands Missile Range was just up the road.

Now, the Manhattan Project was by far the most closely guarded secret that the US government ever had. It was compromised in short order, and the Soviets had their own atomic weapons before the end of the decade that gave us both of the above-mentioned events.

It is unreasonable (to put it mildly) that the US military would be able to keep secret an alien spacecraft that crashed only a few years after the first atomic bomb detonation.

In an odd coincidence, the truth of the "Roswell Incident" was revealed during the administration of President Clinton. A man who - despite having the full might of the Executive Branch of the US government at his fingertips - could not keep secret the fact that he got a blow job from an intern.

 

[mattsidedish]

If there really were these kinds of events happening on a regular basis, wouldn't the US air force or NSA or CIA have come up with a way to test the hypothesis by installing recording devices on every airplane (heck, that's probably standard in modern aircraft anyway) that would catch these "pill-shaped vessel" sightings on camera and radar instead of having to rely on hearsay from the pilots? You know, if they were alien ships, wouldn't that be the absolute highest priority thing that should be either confirmed or ruled out?

All you need is to see the phenomenon in two different aircraft, or from ground, at the same time, to be fairly confident that it's not imagined by just one person.

There certainly are recording devices on most if mot all the aircraft. And they are always testing different kinds to keep the advantage. Fravor actually said that they had done routine practice in that particular area and hadn't seen anything until they updated their radar system. He also stated, as well as Ryan Graves (former fighter pilot from the west coast) that on most of these sightings, certain pieces of equipment would malfunction upon approaching the craft. In fact, the video sequence you see of the Tic Tac UAP was supposedly manually taken by the pilot, as the "lock-on" feature of his camera had malfuctioned and he had to take over. It's frustrating that we only get <1 minute clips of these events.

All three who testified however stated that there is an immense pressure for pilots (military and commercial) who witness these events to stay quiet. Both professional and legal. There's a stigma attacked to speaking out. Many are threatened with losing their job, or worse. In fact, Graves started a foundation for pilots to come forward under protection from retaliation (idk how much protection he could actually offer). Grusch spoke to many occurences where coworkers, family members, friends etc. had been threatened and even physically injured and worse for speaking out about the events.

A craft with those characteristics would not only need to use some form of faster than light propulsion but also need to control the gravity from ALL directions at once instantaneously to avoid the occupants becoming grease stains on the hull from the instantaneous acceleration.

Agreed! I'm nowhere near a physicist but it seems crazy to think about how they operate as they do from some of the stories. I'm sure there's more out there, but the one video I saw from David Fravor shows such propulsion. You can find it on the web. He explained that part of the reason for him stepping forward with the information is the fact that he could not explain these erratic and amazing movements.

 

[southernhybrid]

This is just more far right, we don't trust government, Jewish lasers are real etc. bullshit! Why are any of you even discussing it? Am I missing the sarcasm or has IIDB sunk to a new low?



Oh wait. I think a UFO filled with non human aliens just passed by my house. /s

 

[Shadowy Man]

The problem is that the videos they show never have the erratic physics-defying maneuvering they claim to see by eye. At least none that have been released.

And some videos that have been released have been successfully debunked to be things like stars, commercial planes, or imaging artifacts. See metabunk.org for some very good debunking discussions.

 

[bilby]

There's a stigma attacked to speaking out.

Sure. But that would be expected in both scenarios. Both if there's a cover up going on, or if there's nothing going on.

In the latter case, speaking out about something that exists only in your mind, particularly if doing so means accusing your boss of being a big fat liar, is unlikely to result in a promotion (and might well get you fired) for a number of completely understandable reasons. Nobody wants to employ an observer who reports stuff that isn't there; Nobody wants to be accused of lying when they aren't lying.

That there's pressure on people not to make wild and poorly substantiated claims, is not in any way evidence that their claims are true.

For any intelligent life (including our own) to travel interstellar distances would be extraordinarily hard; So far, we have not even managed to travel interplanetary distances in space, and only twelve humans have even visited our Moon, which is (in astronomical terms) no distance away at all.

That doesn't mean it hasn't happened; But it does imply that any phenomenon we seek to explain as due to interstellar visitors needs to be completely unequivocal as only being able to be explained in that way.

If the cops arrested someone with a history of drug dealing and bank robbery, and found hundreds of thousands of dollars in his apartment, which he claimed to have won playing the lottery, their skepticism about his claim is well founded because winning the lottery is very very unlikely. It's not impossible, but it would be a serious mistake to simply accept such an implausible scenario as being the truth. And if he then claimed that the reason the lottery office didn't have him listed as a recent winner was because of a cover-up, how seriously should we take that claim? Again, it's not impossible that someone in the lottery office has a grudge against him and wants to frame him. But should it be seriously considered, just because it's not completely impossible? I suggest not.

I'm going to assume that no aliens have ever visited Earth, until I have a lot more than a bunch of poorly evidenced claims from members of the same species that came up with Mormonism and Scientology.

Humans imagine stuff; They get things wildly wrong; They tell tall tales; And they're notorious for jumping to incorrect conclusions and then refusing to accept any evidence that refutes those conclusions. I see no particular evidence that UFO reports don't fall into the same category of "stuff people are mistaken about". There's likely more of that around than there is actual knowledge about reality.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Humans imagine stuff; They get things wildly wrong; They tell tall tales; And they're notorious for jumping to incorrect conclusions and then refusing to accept any evidence that refutes those conclusions. I see no particular evidence that UFO reports don't fall into the same category of "stuff people are mistaken about". There's likely more of that around than there is actual knowledge about reality.

Right. And I think it's understandable the stigma attached to making such claims. That's because stories of this nature have been around for as long as human history. The key word is "evidence." It doesn't matter if 40,000 people said they saw the sun dancing around in the sky. It's just more Velikovsky unless someone has evidence because people make all kinds of strange claims. Evidence is what matters.

 

[horhangi]

Interview of the intelligence whistleblower who ”testified.” Most of his answers were something like, “I know that but can’t discuss it in open session.”

We are not alone: The UFO whistleblower speaks

A whistleblower contradicts the official stance of the U.S. government on the possibility of alien life.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[mattsidedish]

There's a stigma attacked to speaking out.

Sure. But that would be expected in both scenarios. Both if there's a cover up going on, or if there's nothing going on.

In the latter case, speaking out about something that exists only in your mind, particularly if doing so means accusing your boss of being a big fat liar, is unlikely to result in a promotion (and might well get you fired) for a number of completely understandable reasons. Nobody wants to employ an observer who reports stuff that isn't there; Nobody wants to be accused of lying when they aren't lying.

That there's pressure on people not to make wild and poorly substantiated claims, is not in any way evidence that their claims are true.

For any intelligent life (including our own) to travel interstellar distances would be extraordinarily hard; So far, we have not even managed to travel interplanetary distances in space, and only twelve humans have even visited our Moon, which is (in astronomical terms) no distance away at all.

That doesn't mean it hasn't happened; But it does imply that any phenomenon we seek to explain as due to interstellar visitors needs to be completely unequivocal as only being able to be explained in that way.

If the cops arrested someone with a history of drug dealing and bank robbery, and found hundreds of thousands of dollars in his apartment, which he claimed to have won playing the lottery, their skepticism about his claim is well founded because winning the lottery is very very unlikely. It's not impossible, but it would be a serious mistake to simplify accept such an implausible scenario as being the truth. And if he then claimed that the reason the lottery office didn't have him listed as a recent winner was because of a cover-up, how seriously should we take that claim? Again, it's not impossible that someone in the lottery office has a grudge against him and wants to frame him. But should it be seriously considered, just because it's not completely impossible? I suggest not.

I'm going to assume that no aliens have ever visited Earth, until I have a lot more than a bunch of poorly evidenced claims from members of the same species that came up with Mormonism and Scientology.

Humans imagine stuff; They get things wildly wrong; They tell tall tales; And they're notorious for jumping to incorrect conclusions and then refusing to accept any evidence that refutes those conclusions. I see no particular evidence that UFO reports don't fall into the same category of "stuff people are mistaken about". There's likely more of that around than there is actual knowledge about reality.

And what about the people coming/who have came forward with evidence of government/corporate collusion to start programs funded with misappropriated taxpayer dollars to study and test recovered craft? The guy claims to have documentation and links for congress to investigate further. They claim to be doing a private session in the near future to exchange documents and begin some sort of investigation. The biggest issue of the meeting was government transparency, as there is clear evidence that there have been coverups and collusion. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Seven out of ten adults in the U.S. say angels are real. Should we have hearings about angels? My point? People make all kinds of unscientific, evidence-free claims.

 

[bilby]

And what about the people coming/who have came forward with evidence of government/corporate collusion to start programs funded with misappropriated taxpayer dollars to study and test recovered craft?

What about them?

They're probably wrong. Humans are wrong constantly, it's my go-to explanation for any claim that lacks compelling evidence.

There's absolutely no question that governments are always covering up the truth; But there's no particular reason to think that the truth they're trying to conceal is interstellar visitors.

The government has a vested interest in creating confusion, misdirection, and misinformation about their activities, for the rather mundane reason that they don't want enemies (or potential future enemies) to know their exact military capabilities, nor to be able to steal their latest weapons and technologies, nor to know who they have spying for them, where, when, and how.

The existence of a government plot to conceal the exact activities they are engaged in, and (as part of that plot) to avoid explicitly budgeting for those activities, is not evidence of alien spacecraft, It's evidence of a government doing what all governments have always done to protect military secrets.

 

[pood]

P.Z. Myers offers his take on this at Pharyngula

Speaking of ”non-human biologics,” has no one, including the House members in the hearing, thought to ask this guy, “well, if they are non-human biologcs, what did they loook like?“ Seems like an obvious question. If there are intelligent aliens out there visiting earth, I want to know what they look like!

All hearsay testimony = nothing.

 

[Shadowy Man]

P.Z. Myers offers his take on this at Pharyngula

Speaking of ”non-human biologics,” has no one, including the House members in the hearing, thought to ask this guy, “well, if they are non-human biologcs, what did they loook like?“ Seems like an obvious question. If there are intelligent aliens out there visiting earth, I want to know what they look like!

All hearsay testimony = nothing.

Grusch hasn’t seen anything himself. He’s just reporting what other people have told him, or so he says.

 

[pood]

P.Z. Myers offers his take on this at Pharyngula

Speaking of ”non-human biologics,” has no one, including the House members in the hearing, thought to ask this guy, “well, if they are non-human biologcs, what did they loook like?“ Seems like an obvious question. If there are intelligent aliens out there visiting earth, I want to know what they look like!

All hearsay testimony = nothing.

Grusch hasn’t seen anything himself. He’s just reporting what other people have told him, or so he says.

Right, it’s all hearsay. So no evidence.

 

[bilby]

Right, it’s all hearsay. So no evidence.

No, hearsay is completely valid and totally compelling evidence. I know this for a fact, because some guy I met in the pub the other day told me he had proven it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

P.Z. Myers offers his take on this at Pharyngula

Speaking of ”non-human biologics,” has no one, including the House members in the hearing, thought to ask this guy, “well, if they are non-human biologcs, what did they loook like?“ Seems like an obvious question. If there are intelligent aliens out there visiting earth, I want to know what they look like!

All hearsay testimony = nothing.

Grusch hasn’t seen anything himself. He’s just reporting what other people have told him, or so he says.

Right, it’s all hearsay. So no evidence.

He said he was willing to give a list to the Congress people of specific people to talk to. So, perhaps they’ll follow that up to get first hand information.

But those people could get in trouble if they were divulging secret information to someone without the need to know clearance.

And just because someone testifies in front of politicians doesn’t mean they’re aren’t spouting bunk. Recall the doctor who testified that vaccines make you magnetic or the poll worker (or whatever she was) who testified in Georgia about all the fraud she witnessed.