Was Jesus a jerk?

[Unknown Soldier]

Jesus is often seen as a great moral teacher. Even people who aren't Christians see him that way. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was a deist but compiled a list of the moral teachings of Jesus. Jefferson didn't buy the miracles attributed to Jesus but thought that Jesus's morality was the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man." If I could ask Jefferson a question regarding his opinion here it would be: What drugs are you on, and would you please share some with me?

Well, no, I want no part of drugs that would cause a great thinker like Jefferson to laud the hate-filled rants of a violent and dangerous madman. That's what Jesus was. It's no exaggeration. According to his story, Jesus was a drunkard. He was obsessed with the idea of burning people if they disobeyed him. He threatened anybody who disagreed with him with destruction in hell. He knowingly led people into life-threatening situations for no good reasons. He was an egomaniac.

So yes, Jesus was a jerk. That's an understatement. I can think of stronger words, but I don't use foul language in public.

I guess an advantage of not believing in any historic Jesus at all is that one can make up whatever fantasy gets one's rocks off...

Actually, making up "whatever fantasy gets one's rocks off" is the basis of belief in a historical Jesus. It's a long tradition that started with Paul.

...pretend that is the REAL Jesus, and then argue against!

I'm afraid that "real Jesus" is an oxymoron. No real Jesus has ever been found.

For the record, all the mentions of "Hell" in the Gospel of Mark come at the end of Chapter 9:

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Thanks for posting one of Jesus's crazy, hate filled rants. It's what I was referring to in the OP.

Many atheists like to ridicule theists with their hero worship and laughable beliefs. Based on what I've seen from some of the most adamant atheists right here on this message board, I'd like to offer a bit of advice from the Gospels:

Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Too bad Jesus didn't take his own advice. His rant against the Pharisees in Matthew 23 has got to be a world record for hypocrisy. The Pharisees aren't even close to creating the vast number of hypocrites that Jesus created.

 

[steve_bank]

I doubt there would be a Christianity as it is without the resurrection myth.

Famous people change nemes. Bob Dylan was really Robert Zimmerman. Bob Denver was Henry John Deutschendorf.

Maybe Jesus was Harvey Humperdink. It would have kind of spoiled the whole demigod walk on water image.

It was a wedding, and Jesus only eased his mother's anguished concern for a very special occasion and important guests.

That is a laugh out loud. The son of a god performed a supernatural trick for people at a wedding because it was a special occasion? The epitome of Christian apologetics and invention. As I said that is more a Roman or Greek demigod than anything Jewish. That would be in the day very serius Jewish blasphemy. I'd have to fact check, I think then blasphemy could get the death penalty.

Literate Greeks and Romans who are the likely targets of the gospels would probably say 'I get it, demigod with godlike powers'.

The gospel Jesus is riddled with Greek influence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How do we know what really happened?

Read their holy book. It says Jesus performed worthless miracles that are untraceable, and it provides cover by saying you shouldn't test god.

*Dad sitting down to read Bible to child*
Child: Read about when Jesus raised all those children from the dead.
Dad: Jesus never did that.
Child: But I thought you said he raised children from the dead.
Dad: Just the one child.
Child: Just one?
Dad: Correct, now let me...
Child: Why just one?
Dad: What?
Child: Why just one child?
Dad: Well, he couldn't raise all the children that had died...
Child: Why not? He is god.
Dad: But...
Child: There are scores of dead children, and he raises just one.
Dad: Well, he was heading her direction but she died before he got there.
Child: So he can only raise recently dead children?
Dad: You are missing the point.
Child: What if I died, and Jesus goes walking by our house and doesn't help raise me from the dead, but helped some kid down the street?
Dad: But you'd be in heaven with God.
Child: But that child wouldn't. And the family would be happy the child was alive again. I mean, isn't that the whole point of raising someone from the dead... that it makes things better, not worse. Otherwise, should Jesus have said that the child is in a better place? No... he raises the child from the dead just to be back in shitty occupied Israel.
Dad: Did you just say sh...
Child: Imagine it... you awake, in the arms of a loving, benevolent god... surrounded by the loved ones she knew and didn't know, for eterni... no wait... back in fucking Roman occupied Israel.
Dad: No more Bill Maher for you.

 

[James Brown]

Curious, isn't it?

Jesus could cure the sick, but he couldn't cure sickness.

He could heal the blind, but not eliminate blindness.

He could turn water into wine, but not purify water.

He could heal demonic possession, but not without slaughtering some poor chap's livestock.

 

[Learner]

Concern yourselves not, if you can read the theme properly (& honestly). It all gets sorted in the end.

 

[Learner]

Jesus is a conflict with most beliefs & ideologies that are non-Christia ton, and so here, for a deist with his/her own particular belief, - depicting an 'alternative' image of Jesus to the biblical convention, would naturally be required - an 'alignment' or possession of the universal morals /Golden Rule, matching the ideology of the deists belief.

The Christians playing the victim. They are against us because they hate Jesus.

You'd have to show me a particular case. In some places there have been Christian victims around the world. But then, I think you must mean in the US.

It is not Jesus and what people think are his teachings, it is what Christians think and do to others based on what they read in a scant set of gospels. Christians historically had wars over dgfences.

Historical wars can't be because of the teachings of Jesus then, as your post suggest, which I agree with and think is correct, but the poor 'reading' by certain people when half-reading what Jesus actually teaches, which is the bit, where the word scant comes in, i.e. scant as in 'little' interest for understanding what's written.

If you want a gadfly pain in the ass moralist you can go back to Socrates. He went around poing a stick in the eye of important people. He was so good at influencing people with his logical skills he was declared an enemy of the state. Corrupting the morals of the youth.

He too was executed.

Never needed Socrates to help me get meaning from the bible.

People hate god and Jesus is an old convenient Christian meme.

The convenient meme, has come up quite a few times at me, which I find a tad amusing, because the mention of it in the first place, is equally convenient for you, to make as an argument.

What are the teachings of Jesus? Other than the Golden Rule?

There are eleven words in the Golden Rule:

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Is this to you (plural), all that Jesus said in the NT?

Perhaps you mean "in a nutshell", "a summation", the conclusion, of all the teachings He said "in the NT by the Golden Rule contained in just eleven words.

 

[steve_bank]

Pure apologetics. Given the history of Christianity they collectively have oppressed each other and non Christians up through today.

North Ireland. Coptic Christians in Egypt claim to be persecuted but when I looked at it it was not one sided.

No sale Learner. Taken as a whole Christianity has am abysmal history. Are atheists as a whole 'better? Probaly not. But athesists can change beliefs and morality. Atheists do not hemaly try to impose beliefs on others.

Witness the black civil rights evolution. While not all Christians and whites were opposed to back rights, the opposition was primarily whit Christians, and in the day southern democrats.

In the 90s supporte for gay rights rose above 50% over here. There is still stiff opposition by Christian conservatves all based in a few lines in the bible. Insanity.

 

[bilby]

Concern yourselves not, if you can read the theme properly (& honestly). It all gets sorted in the end.

Yes, that's a characteristic of the stories humans make up.

They all lived happily ever after.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Concern yourselves not, if you can read the theme properly (& honestly). It all gets sorted in the end.

Yes, that's a characteristic of the stories humans make up.

They all lived happily ever after.

Dude, you haven't got to Revelations. SPOILER ALERT... it gets pretty gruesome.

 

[bilby]

Concern yourselves not, if you can read the theme properly (& honestly). It all gets sorted in the end.

Yes, that's a characteristic of the stories humans make up.

They all lived happily ever after.

Dude, you haven't got to Revelations. SPOILER ALERT... it gets pretty gruesome.

Not for the good guys. And how could a good person be truly happy, if he didn't get to watch his enemies suffer disproportionately for their transgressions?

All that gruesomeness IS a happy ending, for God and his chosen. Nobody cares about the sinners its happening to, because God loves and cares for everyone unconditionally, but they broke some of the arbitrary and in many cases trivial rules, so He doesn't care unconditionally about them anymore.

Yeah, I know.

But it's not meant to make sense, you're just meant to believe it.

 

[Learner]

Concern yourselves not, if you can read the theme properly (& honestly). It all gets sorted in the end.

Yes, that's a characteristic of the stories humans make up.

They all lived happily ever after.

A characteristic that humans do long for.

 

[DBT]

Dreaming of impossibly wonderful things to alleviate conditions here and now.

 

[Learner]

There probably was some guy named Jesus who had a lot of influence back in the day, but since the NT was written decades after the death of the guy named Jesus, we really know very little about him or his character.

Some seem to know a lot less than others.

To me, he sounds like a socialist when he tells people to give up their wealth and help the poor etc. But, seriously guys, these are all myths, some good, some horrific.

From the little you say you know of Him, at least youve attempted to create a character profile.

We have no idea how many of these myths were close to what the character of Jesus promoted. So, some Christians cherry pick the worst parts of the Bible while others pick the sweet cherries.

I think I get what you're trying to say here... But this "no idea [...] what the character of Jesus promoted." Is a controversy because you think "Christians are picking the worst parts, while other Christians are picking the good parts of the bible...", that would be an error.

For example: wouldn't it be more precise to 'hone in' on Christians picking the good parts and bad parts of Jesus mentioned in the bible.
What are the bad parts of Jesus anyway?

A I know both kinds. Some are wonderful people, who do good works and others are haters who would love to make our country into a Christian theocracy.

You're a hater (depending on context use) because you would like to be under a Christian rule, is partly correct.

And, speaking of Jefferson, the guy was a slave owner. Sure, he did some good things, and was probably an atheist, but I certainly wouldn't praise any of the racist founders of the US as morally superior, regardless of their beliefs concerning religious mythology.

Just be as kind as possible and treat others like you'd like to be treated. That's not just a Christian thing. It's part of all or most religious and positive secular philosophies. I wish there was more of it in our society these days, instead of the hate and division we see everyday.

Good post, I go along with all the above.

And, Learner, I like two NT verses. "Judge not that ye be not judged" ( KJV ) and "The truth shall set you free". Leaving Christianity and realizing we are alone in the universe without any gods set me free from the crazy conservative Christianity of my youth.

I have no issues with you having your pov. Depending on context, we all judge automatically, for example being cautious of strangers, wondering on how they look talk through their mannerisms. Biblically, you can judge, but judge righteously but not judge hypocritically.

Joining Christianity for me, was setting me free, in different ways.

Still, if a person needs a nice version of Christianity to help them be a better person, so bet it. I'm sure not going to judge them for that. Just don't take all that Biblical mythology too literally.

The version should always be according Christ, as its written. Ive heard it said quite a few times, even on the thread, that there's not much to it, about what Jesus said or taught, despite that people seem easily to recite His sayings, although to mock.
But at least they seem to know the standard convention of Christian by actually portraying Jesus's character without realising it - when uncannily making statements, they don't know anything about His character etc..

That's a miracle in itself.

 

[Learner]

Dreaming of impossibly wonderful things to alleviate conditions here and now.

Meanwhile peoples unions of all categories around the world keep picketing the lines demanding better from those who could make a difference.

 

[steve_bank]

Dreaming of impossibly wonderful things to alleviate conditions here and now.

Meanwhile peoples unions around the world keep picketing the lines demanding better from those who can make a difference.

I don't know if a dialectic is the right term. Western civilization is based on dynamic changing balances between opoing forces and interests.

The right to organize and unionize to collectively bargain of wages and benefits is in most or all westernized nations.

On the flip side unions and labor can go too far and expect too much. Greece has an unsustainable retirement program. France's is becoming unsustainable and the retirement age had to be increased.

Post WWII European socialism failed. The flip side to free market capitalism where wages vary IAW supply and demand is the opposite of government owning and operating major busness and setting wages.

Our American Christian conservatives are strongly pro unrestricted free markets, and anti socialism. The American 'success gospel 'god wants you to be rich.

A number of conservative Christians on TV selling supplements and other things. Religion cslls products.

What would Jesus have to say about that?

Learer when you said atheists have memes too yiu are making my chronic point. Christian bible based mrality is no better than the rest of us humans.

 

[No Robots]

Reactionaries hate Jesus because he was revolutionary. Common people and the spiritually enlightened love him. The alliance of common people and spiritually enlightened will defeat the reactionaries and thereby bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

 

[steve_bank]

Hardly revolutionary.

He was quoting Moses and other Jewish prophets. He reiforced Mosaic Law, such as bans against divorce and fornication.

Jesus would have been a Jew living in Jewish culture and never rejectng being Jewish.

 

[No Robots]

Hardly revolutionary.

He was quoting Moses and other Jewish prophets. He reiforced Mosaic Law, such as bans against divorce and fornication.

Jesus would have been a Jew living in Jewish culture and never rejectng being Jewish.

Moses was the greatest revolutionary of all time. Here is Waton:

Progress must necessarily be revolutionary and creative, but this can be done only through and with the masses of mankind. This was the great truth that Marx crystallized; this was the great truth that Jesus perceived, and this was the great truth that Moses realized and continues to realize.

 

[TomC]

Moses was the greatest revolutionary of all time.

Say Wut?

Moses was a murderous warlord. That was hardly revolutionary in the day.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

Yea, Mosaic Law. Those wonderful prohibitions and punishments.

10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of[a] his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

The Jews were condensed with a sense of ritual purity. Giving birth or a wet dream was unclean and required ritual purification. Death penalty was the common punishment. Kill gays. Kill fornicators.

If yiu wnart to know where those wacky Muslim social extremists come from, Mohamed was said to have drawn on the bible. He referred to Jews as the people of the book who in his day had lost their way.

The gospel Jesus reinforced Moses.

No thanks.