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Was Jesus a jerk?

Yea, Mosaic Law. Those wonderful prohibitions and punishments.

The thing is, both Moses and Jesus were primitive. Not evil or anything, just ethically and scientifically and socially primitive. Because they lived thousands of years ago and were products of their times.
Modern secular Humanism is vastly better, just like modern medicine and democracy and information technology and such are better. Moses and Jesus and similar folks did the best they could with what they had.

Judging them by modern standards is unreasonable.
Tom
 
^The law and the prophets are two sides of the coin. Here is Waton:

The difference between the prophet and the priest is the difference between man and woman; the prophet is masculine, the priest is feminine. It is the function of the prophet, as it is the function of man, to go out into the world, there to struggle, to conquer and to achieve; it is the function of the priest, as it is that of the woman , to receive from the prophet the achievements, and to put them into the proper form and arrange them into the proper order. The prophet belongs to the outer world, the world of struggle, conquest and achievement; the priest belongs to the inner world, the home, the world of peace, of rest and of enjoyment. For these reasons, the prophet is revolutionary, the priest is conservative; like man, the prophet makes progress; and, like woman, the priest conserves the progress, The distinction between the prophet and the priest is most distinct in the case of Moses and Aaron, his brother. When Jehovah sent Moses to redeem the Jews from Egypt, Jehovah told Moses that his brother Aaron would be his spokesman. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him a God. (Exodus: 4, 16). The prophet is a God; for, like a God, he gives; but the priest is a mouth; for, like a mouth, he receives. We saw before that the prophet is mercy, and now we see that the priest is law. Mercy is masculine, it is free and unconstrained; law is feminine, it constrains. This is the reason why mercy is always symbolized by a king, while law is symbolized by a queen.

The priestly law exists to give form and order to the prophetic revolutionary insight. Make no mistake, however: the prophetic insight is primordial, and the priestly law is its servant.
 
Yea, Mosaic Law. Those wonderful prohibitions and punishments.

The thing is, both Moses and Jesus were primitive. Not evil or anything, just ethically and scientifically and socially primitive. Because they lived thousands of years ago and were products of their times.
Modern secular Humanism is vastly better, just like modern medicine and democracy and information technology and such are better. Moses and Jesus and similar folks did the best they could with what they had.

Judging them by modern standards is unreasonable.
Tom
The prophetic insight of Moses and Jesus will continue to light the way for humanity for all time, long after so-called modern man--atheist, materialist man--has disappeared.
 
The priestly law exists to give form and order to the prophetic revolutionary insight. Make no mistake, however: the prophetic insight is primordial, and the priestly law is its servant.

I know nothing about Waton outside your quotes.

But, frankly, I'm unimpressed.
Tom
 
Yea, Mosaic Law. Those wonderful prohibitions and punishments.

The thing is, both Moses and Jesus were primitive. Not evil or anything, just ethically and scientifically and socially primitive. Because they lived thousands of years ago and were products of their times.
Modern secular Humanism is vastly better, just like modern medicine and democracy and information technology and such are better. Moses and Jesus and similar folks did the best they could with what they had.

Judging them by modern standards is unreasonable.
Tom
The prophetic insight of Moses and Jesus will continue to light the way for humanity for all time, long after so-called modern man--atheist, materialist man--has disappeared.

Sorry dude.
I think that the main reason that Abrahamic religions remain such a force is because they're violent and immoral.
Which has made them rich and powerful.

Capable of forcing subservience upon the gullible, while reinforcing the power of the wealthy and immoral.
Tom
 
Yea, Mosaic Law. Those wonderful prohibitions and punishments.

The thing is, both Moses and Jesus were primitive. Not evil or anything, just ethically and scientifically and socially primitive. Because they lived thousands of years ago and were products of their times.
Modern secular Humanism is vastly better, just like modern medicine and democracy and information technology and such are better. Moses and Jesus and similar folks did the best they could with what they had.

Judging them by modern standards is unreasonable.
Tom
The prophetic insight of Moses and Jesus will continue to light the way for humanity for all time, long after so-called modern man--atheist, materialist man--has disappeared.

Sorry dude.
I think that the main reason that Abrahamic religions remain such a force is because they're violent and immoral.
Which has made them rich and powerful.

Capable of forcing subservience upon the gullible, while reinforcing the power of the wealthy and immoral.

This representation looks only at the priestly aspect and ignores the prophetic. Waton again on the distinction:

A true prophet never compromises his ideal, while a true priest always compromises his ideal. Throughout history, no matter how corrupt the ruling powers were, and no matter how degenerate society was, the priests were always on the side of the corrupt ruling class, and always defended the degenerate society. Now, this was not because of a difference of philosophy but because of a difference of life. As stated many times before, philosophy does not determine life, it is life that determines philosophy. In the prophet, life is revolutionary and creative; he cannot help struggling against the old and endeavor to create the new. On the other hand, in the priest, life is conservative and reactionary; he cannot help cling to the existing, even if it be old and corrupt.
 
The priestly law exists to give form and order to the prophetic revolutionary insight. Make no mistake, however: the prophetic insight is primordial, and the priestly law is its servant.

I know nothing about Waton outside your quotes.

But, frankly, I'm unimpressed.
Tom
Feeling's mutual, bud.

Really?
Waton has an opinion about me?

Please share.
Tom
You embody his depiction of the reactionary priest as opposed to the revolutionary prophet.
 
Jesus the revolutionary Jewish prophet in the gospels was likely telling his fellow Jews to get their act together or face destruction by Rome. Any literate person in Israel would see the looing destruction of Israel.
 
Jesus the revolutionary Jewish prophet in the gospels was likely telling his fellow Jews to get their act together or face destruction by Rome. Any literate person in Israel would see the looing destruction of Israel.

It was a little more complicated:

The masses of the Jews were exploited, oppressed and treated brutally by their Roman masters. At the same time , the masses of the Jews were also exploited and oppressed by their own ruling classes. The ruling classes, by identifying themselves with the Roman masters, were as brutal as the Roman masters were.
 
Rme of the day actually had what you might call in the day an enlightened approach to empire.

Instead of conquest out right the requirements were allegiance to Rome above all, paying taxes, and being open to Roman immigrants.

In retrn those in theempre got security, a transportation system, and a stable economy.

The OT Jews by their own biblical history were as aggressive and brutal as were other civilizations. They lost out to stronger powers, the way of all things. The idea tha ancient Jews wrer [assive gnomes being put upon ios part of the Jewish mythology.

It is interesting how European Christians turned a 2000 year old Jew into a European blonde haired blue eyed white guy. They had to change Jesus to be able to distinguish themselves from Jews.


The bible was no longer Jewish it was Christian written for Christians. Part of tfabricated Christian mythology.
 
The game of de-Judaizing Jesus is over. Its last stand is with "Jesus is a myth." This is the last refuge of the high priests of atheist materialism.
 
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You embody his depiction of the reactionary priest as opposed to the revolutionary prophet.

Waton embodies a religious grifter, like Joseph Smith and Creflo Dollar.

All I'm basing that opinion on is the quotes you post and what you post about them. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about Waton. His only acolyte, that I know about, is you.
Tom
 
You embody his depiction of the reactionary priest as opposed to the revolutionary prophet.

Waton embodies a religious grifter, like Joseph Smith and Creflo Dollar.

All I'm basing that opinion on is the quotes you post and what you post about them. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about Waton. His only acolyte, that I know about, is you.
Tom
Well, he's got your number, the reactionary priest defending the corrupt system:

The prophet is man, the priest is woman; between the prophet and the priest there is the same antagonism as between man and woman, the same antagonism as between mercy and law, between creation and conservation, between revolution and reaction. The prophet hates the priest, because the priest is a hindrance to further progress; and the priest hates the prophet, because the prophet disturbs the existing order and institutions and destroys what had been built before. There is another aspect of the matter. The prophet is intuition; the priest is reason; and the antagonism between the prophet and the priest is the antagonism between intuition and reason. Intuition is faith, reason is reflection; intuition is creative, reason is conservative; intuition is religion, reason is philosophy, and philosophy is atheistic. For this reason, the prophet is religious, the priest is atheistic. Because the prophet is religious, is intuitive and has faith, he has the courage to defy all opposition, to suffer for the sake of his idea, and even to die for it. On the other hand, because the priest is philosophical and atheistic, reasons and reflects on the consequences, he has no courage to defy opposition, compromises his ideas and ideals, and thus succumbs intellectually and spiritually. That the priest serves at the altar, prays to God, and preaches sermons in the churches, in the synagogues or in the universities - all this is merely conformity with the prevailing requirements, but it is not religion, it is not serving God. Thus the prophet, even when he struggles against religion, is religious; while the priest, even when he struggles for religion, remains atheistic.
 
I didn't realize preaching was allowed on these forums.
 
Christians have been proclaiming Jesus is the light of the world for 2000 years.

Doesn't seem to have much of a positive effect. 2000 years of conflict.

Looking at where things are heading if believing in Jesus helps you cope with reality, whatever floats your boat. Healthier than escaping into alcohol, drugs, or pot. Though not being able to fornicate must be tough.
 
^You expected mankind to rise above conflict overnight? Most men have a hard enough time just controlling their sex drive, let alone their drive for wealth and status.
 
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