Was Jesus a jerk?

[No Robots]

^Ah, good. Here is my extended reply for good measure:

There is no question but that Jesus operated within the thought-realm of the Judaism of his time. This thought-realm included demonology, as your link indicates (Fabulous resource. Thanks). As indicated in the link, it is never certain to what extent a speaker/writer is making use of standard imagery for rhetoric purposes, and to what extent real belief is indicated. For the most part, this is not important. The important thing, as with all mashalim, is to penetrate to the inner significance of the speech/writing.

Hmmmm...

"The Babylonian Jews lived in a world which was filled with demons and spirits, malevolent and sometimes benevolent, who inhabited the air, the trees, water, roofs of houses, and privies. "

Jesus was an exorcist...an expert in demons...Maybe he saw something that bothered him in that fig tree...enough to kill it...

Either way, mashalim or not, the story makes more sense to me now...Good!

I'm a little surprised that, after I've pointed it out, no one has said, "Whoa! So, you're telling me that, while he did curse a fig tree, it was only as symbolic cursing of the whole of Israel?!"

 

[steve_bank]

^Ah, good. Here is my extended reply for good measure:

There is no question but that Jesus operated within the thought-realm of the Judaism of his time. This thought-realm included demonology, as your link indicates (Fabulous resource. Thanks). As indicated in the link, it is never certain to what extent a speaker/writer is making use of standard imagery for rhetoric purposes, and to what extent real belief is indicated. For the most part, this is not important. The important thing, as with all mashalim, is to penetrate to the inner significance of the speech/writing.

Hmmmm...

"The Babylonian Jews lived in a world which was filled with demons and spirits, malevolent and sometimes benevolent, who inhabited the air, the trees, water, roofs of houses, and privies. "

Jesus was an exorcist...an expert in demons...Maybe he saw something that bothered him in that fig tree...enough to kill it...

Either way, mashalim or not, the story makes more sense to me now...Good!

I'm a little surprised that, after I've pointed it out, no one has said, "Whoa! So, you're telling me that, while he did curse a fig tree, it was only as symbolic cursing of the whole of Israel?!"

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? As the old expression goes.

 

[No Robots]

^Ah, good. Here is my extended reply for good measure:

There is no question but that Jesus operated within the thought-realm of the Judaism of his time. This thought-realm included demonology, as your link indicates (Fabulous resource. Thanks). As indicated in the link, it is never certain to what extent a speaker/writer is making use of standard imagery for rhetoric purposes, and to what extent real belief is indicated. For the most part, this is not important. The important thing, as with all mashalim, is to penetrate to the inner significance of the speech/writing.

Hmmmm...

"The Babylonian Jews lived in a world which was filled with demons and spirits, malevolent and sometimes benevolent, who inhabited the air, the trees, water, roofs of houses, and privies. "

Jesus was an exorcist...an expert in demons...Maybe he saw something that bothered him in that fig tree...enough to kill it...

Either way, mashalim or not, the story makes more sense to me now...Good!

I'm a little surprised that, after I've pointed it out, no one has said, "Whoa! So, you're telling me that, while he did curse a fig tree, it was only as symbolic cursing of the whole of Israel?!"

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? As the old expression goes.

I just thought it was obvious. He symbolically curses a fig tree when he is really cursing an entire nation? Wow, what a jerk!

 

[DBT]

Is this true?

"Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews.”

— Rabbi Harry Waton p. 99 of his book

Whoa! That's some serious quote mining, son. Here's the whole thing:

According to Hitler, a race of a superior culture has a right to subordinate to itself the races of an inferior culture, and the race of the highest culture has a right to be the master over the whole earth and the whole human race. What follows? Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews, but not in the sense of Hitler and the nazis. With Jesus, who only symbolizes the Jews, the Jews say: Our kingdom is not of this world. The Jews will become the masters over the whole earth and they will subordinate to themselves all nations, not by material power, not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding, humanity, peace, justice and progress. Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the emancipation of the working class and the human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race. The races and the nations will cheerfully submit to the spiritual power of Judaism, and all will become Jews.

The book is available in full text at archive.org.

It was a question, hence the question mark.

I ask because Rabbi Harry Waton is labelled a supremacist or radical by some.

For instance;

"Jewish supremacist rabbi, Harry Waton, confessed that not only is Communism Jewish, but that it is simply a mechanism for Jewish world dominion and the subjugation of all non-Jews — a fulfillment of the megalomaniacal messianic vision of the Torah and the Talmud. In his 1939 book, “A Program for The Jews and An Answer To All Anti-Semites: A Program for Humanity”, the racist rabbi wrote:
“It is not an accident that Judaism gave birth to Marxism, and it is not an accident that the Jews readily took up Marxism; all this was in perfect accord with the progress of Judaism and the Jews. The Jews should realize that Jehovah no longer dwells in heaven, but he dwells in us right here on earth; we must no longer look up to Jehovah as above us and outside of us, but we must see him right within us,” (p. 148) “Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews,” (p. 99) “Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the emancipation of the working class and the human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race.” (p. 100) [pdf 2012 Feb]

Rabbi quotes

www.whale.to

 

[steve_bank]

What I got frpm a Jew I knew was that in agneral sense Jews are anarchy.

A Jew may interpret scripture in a situation and is bound morally by his interpretation.
There is no central Jewish religious authority.

Similar to a Muslim cleric writing a fatwa, a position paper which holds no authority, a rabbi can write a position paper.

There is a wide diversity in Jewish theology as there is in protestant Christianity.

A read a Guide For The Perplexed writen by a rabbi Moses Maimonides around the 12th century. He wrote that when interpretation of scripture and science conflict, interpretation has to change.

The traslation of the Koran I rad was from the early 1900s by what today we woud call amodeate theist. He sid in his comntray there is no conflict between religion and science, they deaL with different areas.

Yet today there are extreme sculpture literalist Muslims.

And today Jews like Christians have biblical literalists. It was obvious for years and then one day on camera Netanyahu said modern Israel is owned by Jews by divine right, given by god.

My point being there are no singular monolithic Christians, Jews, or Muslims. No Christian, Jewsih, or Muslim cleric speaks for all.

Reducing Jews to a collective monolithic stereotype as you do is about the worse insult you can give to any group.

As to the price of eggs, regardless of what you believe the world still turns, and you eat, crap, piss, and eat.

Beiefs don't pay rent or buy food. Beliefs don't build the computers you use.

 

[No Robots]

I ask because Rabbi Harry Waton is labelled a supremacist or radical by some.

For instance;

"Jewish supremacist rabbi, Harry Waton, confessed that not only is Communism Jewish, but that it is simply a mechanism for Jewish world dominion and the subjugation of all non-Jews — a fulfillment of the megalomaniacal messianic vision of the Torah and the Talmud. In his 1939 book, “A Program for The Jews and An Answer To All Anti-Semites: A Program for Humanity”, the racist rabbi wrote:
“It is not an accident that Judaism gave birth to Marxism, and it is not an accident that the Jews readily took up Marxism; all this was in perfect accord with the progress of Judaism and the Jews. The Jews should realize that Jehovah no longer dwells in heaven, but he dwells in us right here on earth; we must no longer look up to Jehovah as above us and outside of us, but we must see him right within us,” (p. 148) “Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews,” (p. 99) “Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the emancipation of the working class and the human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race.” (p. 100) [pdf 2012 Feb]

Rabbi quotes

www.whale.to

Anti-semites love Harry and love to quote him. I'm actually grateful to them, because I would never have found him except through them.

 

[No Robots]

Reducing Jews to a collective monolithic stereotype as you do is about the worse insult you can give to any group.

I've indicated by name those Jews whose views I endorse.

As to the price of eggs, regardless of what you believe the world still turns, and you eat, crap, piss, and eat.

Beiefs don't pay rent or buy food. Beliefs don't build the computers you use.

What is thought incorrectly is lived incorrectly.

 

[steve_bank]

Ok Robot. Then, given the diversity of Jewish culture and religion exactly what do you mean by 'the world is becoming Jewish'?

And why in practice it would be any better than say Christianity or Islam?

 

[No Robots]

Ok Robot. Then, given the diversity of Jewish culture and religion exactly what do you mean by 'the world is becoming Jewish'?

And why in practice it would be any better than say Christianity or Islam?

Christianity and Islam are already versions of Judaism. So is socialism. So, if you put together all the Christians, Muslims, Jews and socialists, you are already looking at the vast majority of humanity.

More importantly, however, is that more and more people are attaining to the intellect, the soul in its highest form of development, where it knows itself as one with the whole of existence. It is the community of these people who constitute the nucleus of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Eventually, the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth will include the whole of humanity. This is the end goal of the whole of existence. The idea of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is unique to Judaism. It is what sets Judaism above all other thought-realms. Ultimately, the whole of mankind will embrace male circumcision as a mark of adhesion to Judaism.

 

[steve_bank]

To me that is nonsense.

Modern Israel was founded as socialist, the kibbutz collectives. It failed and morphed to a suceesful ree market economy. As did communist China who now calls itself socialist, it is in some ways.

Socialism is one of those vague conceptual political terms. It means different things to different people.

Yp me in economic terms scia;sm is a mix of goberment and private ownership of means of production.

In the USA we have gorwng social programs, but government does not run business directly or detrmne what the economy produces. China is a mix of free entrise and prvaye ownership of business and government control of the economy.

Working European systems that idwe identify as socialist are really a hybrid mix of social welfare and govt support and free market economies.

You are using the terms Jewish and socialism loosely without definition, and I doubt you can elaborate.

Greece is a failed socialist state and France is always on the edge.

 

[No Robots]

As Waton makes clear, the entire world is now in a transition between capitalism and socialism. This transition is state capitalism. There are of course many flavours. The transition from state capitalism to socialism is under development. In our time, socialism seems to be emerging in the form of individualistic entrepreneurship. This is economic activity that takes place outside of the existing government/corporate structures.

 

[No Robots]

The important thing for this discussion is that, however misguided they are, socialists are embracing doctrines ultimately derived from Judaism.

 

[steve_bank]

It has nothing to do with Jews.

There are about 7 million Jews roughly split between theUuSA and Israel. The idea that they are all inhenenty socialist is ridiculous.

And again what do you mean by socialism other than simplistic phrases?

The western European states what we considered socialist economies over here post WWII all divested of government controlled industry. I think France holds stock in some major industries.

In the 70s there was the conspiracy theory that the world banking systems and ecomonomies iwere controlled by a secret cabal in Israel.

As I said Jews are not monolithic. As with everyone else they vary from conservative to liberal in economics and politics.

Yiu have to define what tyiu mean by Jewish. I know you can't.

 

[No Robots]

It has nothing to do with Jews.

There are about 7 million Jews roughly split between theUuSA and Israel. The idea that they are all inhenenty socialist is ridiculous.

Socialism is inherent in Judaism, it is the soul and essence of Judaism, it is the quest for the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Of course, not every Jew recognizes or accepts this. But it is the case nonetheless.

And again what do you mean by socialism other than simplistic phrases?

Socialism is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. It means that every human attains the state of reason and moral autonomy. This spiritual elevation requires a corresponding material condition, an end to economic and political exploitation.

The western European states what we considered socialist economies over here post WWII all divested of government controlled industry. I think France holds stock in some major industries.

The state, through its economic and political power, dominates all human activity. That is state capitalism. State capitalism is the rule everywhere. It is the transition from capitalism to socialism.

In the 70s there was the conspiracy theory that the world banking systems and ecomonomies iwere controlled by a secret cabal in Israel.

Jews outperform in all sectors, from boxing to banking. This is direct evidence of the superiority of Judaism over all other thought-realms.

As I said Jews are not monolithic. As with everyone else they vary from conservative to liberal in economics and politics.

There is unity in diversity. In fact, absolute unity is the core principle of Judaism, as given in the Shema: Hear, Israel! Being is your god, Being is one.

Yiu have to define what tyiu mean by Jewish. I know you can't.

To be Jewish means to be committed to the goal of establishing the Kingdom of Heaven of Earth.

 

[DBT]

I ask because Rabbi Harry Waton is labelled a supremacist or radical by some.

For instance;

"Jewish supremacist rabbi, Harry Waton, confessed that not only is Communism Jewish, but that it is simply a mechanism for Jewish world dominion and the subjugation of all non-Jews — a fulfillment of the megalomaniacal messianic vision of the Torah and the Talmud. In his 1939 book, “A Program for The Jews and An Answer To All Anti-Semites: A Program for Humanity”, the racist rabbi wrote:
“It is not an accident that Judaism gave birth to Marxism, and it is not an accident that the Jews readily took up Marxism; all this was in perfect accord with the progress of Judaism and the Jews. The Jews should realize that Jehovah no longer dwells in heaven, but he dwells in us right here on earth; we must no longer look up to Jehovah as above us and outside of us, but we must see him right within us,” (p. 148) “Since the Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth, the Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. Now, indeed, this is the historic destiny of the Jews,” (p. 99) “Judaism is communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the emancipation of the working class and the human society. It is with these spiritual weapons that the Jews will conquer the world and the human race.” (p. 100) [pdf 2012 Feb]

Rabbi quotes

www.whale.to

Anti-semites love Harry and love to quote him. I'm actually grateful to them, because I would never have found him except through them.

I'm not familiar with his work, but it's not necessarily anti-semites who class him a Jewish supremacist. There appear to be hints of it in what little I have read, which is not enough to me to judge, yet the label is there. Why do you think that is?

 

[No Robots]

I'm not familiar with his work, but it's not necessarily anti-semites who class him a Jewish supremacist. There appear to be hints of it in what little I have read, which is not enough to me to judge, yet the label is there. Why do you think that is?

He did certainly present Judaism as the one thought-realm sufficient to guide mankind to the future. He was not a supremacist, however, because he included all mankind in his vision of the future: everyone will be Jewish. This is the opposite of the supremacists who declare that there are those who will never be able to join the in-group, whether because of their race or some other reason.

 

[DBT]

I'm not familiar with his work, but it's not necessarily anti-semites who class him a Jewish supremacist. There appear to be hints of it in what little I have read, which is not enough to me to judge, yet the label is there. Why do you think that is?

He did certainly present Judaism as the one thought-realm sufficient to guide mankind to the future. He was not a supremacist, however, because he included all mankind in his vision of the future: everyone will be Jewish. This is the opposite of the supremacists who declare that there are those who will never be able to join the in-group, whether because of their race or some other reason.

Perhaps it's the 'everyone will be Jewish' that may be an issue and the basis of Rabbi Waton being called a Jewish supremacist.

 

[No Robots]

Perhaps it's the 'everyone will be Jewish' that may be an issue and the basis of Rabbi Waton being called a Jewish supremacist.

Weird, then, that his accusers don't like to dwell on that, but stick rather to quote mining his case.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As Waton makes clear, the entire world is now in a transition between capitalism and socialism.

Waton is an economist? Also, how is any of this talking about if Jesus was a jerk?

 

[No Robots]

As Waton makes clear, the entire world is now in a transition between capitalism and socialism.

Waton is an economist? Also, how is any of this talking about if Jesus was a jerk?

Waton is a follower of Marx, the only economist worthy of the name.

Jesus is the progenitor of socialism.