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We are on the Verge of Economic Catastrophe

The $1.5 billion project I'm working on is looking into tariff and duty risks for parts, steel, aluminum, etc. Those may add 10-15% unbudgeted increases to the project construction costs.

I talked with a friend who has put his consulting business expansion plans on hold because he couldn't comit to a more expensive 5 year lease for new space. He was going to hire more people, but that's on hold too. Uncertainty.
Yeah, this is a major problem at the moment. Canada needs a housing expansion and the Trump stunts are fucking it over. If you can't properly estimate material costs which amount to large amounts of money, hard to commit to any capital infrastructure improvements.

To make matters worse, North American metals is ridiculously intertwined between the US, Canada, and Mexico. We rely on each other every step of the way. And Trump is fucking it up... for no gain to the US.
 
Get used to it, kids.

View attachment 49499

Cheddar says;
Economists agree: Only 10% of 47 economists on a panel compiled by consulting firm WoltersKluwel expect a rate cut at the Fed’s March meeting, and 80% say tariffs will provide “a significant boost” to U.S. inflation.
What I want to know, is where did they find those 4.7 economists? Sounds painful.
One or more of them was high or drunk
 
Get used to it, kids.

View attachment 49499

Cheddar says;
Economists agree: Only 10% of 47 economists on a panel compiled by consulting firm WoltersKluwel expect a rate cut at the Fed’s March meeting, and 80% say tariffs will provide “a significant boost” to U.S. inflation.
What I want to know, is where did they find those 4.7 economists? Sounds painful.
One or more of them was high or drunk

So… four of them were 100% drunk, and one of them was 70% drunk?
Did that last one say he gave a rate cut a 30% chance?
I dunno - just seeking clarity on ten percent of forty seven people.
 
Risk is the worst thing for capital intensive projects. Fast changes are bad enough but back and forth changes are worse. If they threaten, impose, then remove tariffs over and over, change percentages and pick certain industries, etc, etc. Money will sit it out until certainty comes back. I doubt there will be certainty on shifting tax structures any time soon. Either way, costs will go up because of tariffs or higher prices for US only suppliers.

Are tariffs the new taxes, and other taxes going down? Are federal projects being cancelled, money returned to states and state level projects taking over? Which laws are going to be ignored so projects move forward after laying off most of the government employees that approve permits, etc.

We haven't even gotten to congress changing laws and the uncertainty is building to unsustainable levels.
 

The $1.5 billion project I'm working on is looking into tariff and duty risks for parts, steel, aluminum, etc. Those may add 10-15% unbudgeted increases to the project construction costs.

I talked with a friend who has put his consulting business expansion plans on hold because he couldn't comit to a more expensive 5 year lease for new space. He was going to hire more people, but that's on hold too. Uncertainty.
Yeah, this is a major problem at the moment. Canada needs a housing expansion and the Trump stunts are fucking it over. If you can't properly estimate material costs which amount to large amounts of money, hard to commit to any capital infrastructure improvements.

To make matters worse, North American metals is ridiculously intertwined between the US, Canada, and Mexico. We rely on each other every step of the way. And Trump is fucking it up... for no gain to the US.
Not only that, but Canada and Mexico are likely to turn to China to get more of what they need if the US is going to fuck them over. The Trump administration is really turning into the dream scenario for the interests of Russia and China.
 
just seeking clarity on ten percent of forty seven people.
My guess is it's 5/47, and that they rounded down because that better suits their argument than would rounding 10.6 up to 11.
They are economists, after all. So they economized on their representation of the popularity of the prospect of an interest rate drop.
They could have economized on words instead and said "five of forty seven", but that would have prompted their colleagues to ask "what percent is that?" and the difficulty of mentally coming up with 10.638297872% would be too much, so I guess it's forgiveable.
 

"Key Points
Economic nationalism is now a global phenomenon and it has major implications for Apple, Starbucks, Tesla, McDonald’s, and Domino’s Pizza, to name just a few major market players that have benefitted from an era of free trade and access to global markets and consumers.

Western businesses now face a landscape where trade, investment, and corporate presence are no longer purely economic matters but increasingly tied to geopolitics.

The old world of the corporation is giving way to a new world where political allegiance, “patriotic dividends” and “home country” dynamics determine success, writes international policy expert Dewardric McNeal."



Potential recession Indicators

 
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I have read we may be heading for a housing crash in August or September because a kit of Obama era legislation and actions expire then that propped housing up
 

 
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I have read we may be heading for a housing crash in August or September because a kit of Obama era legislation and actions expire then that propped housing up
I’m curious about the legislation that will prop up housing. Housing dosnt need to be propped up! As long as there is housing shortage, prices will go up.
 
The stock market “crash” is happening in slow motion already.
It’s predictable … I have withdrawn about 75% of all the funds I managed from the equities market. But trying to counter inflation with stuff like CDs and Money Market funds probably isn’t going to happen. So I’m resigned to losing a lot of money over the next four years and hope I’ll be able to keep my home.
Too bad. The economy WAS doing so well.
Yup. Down over 500 points as of right now. More than 1%. I'm heavily invested. I may call my broker though. I just not sure about the tax consequences.
That’s why I’ve been moving out of equities slowly since last year. What’s left is getting hit pretty hard at the moment but not as hard as the broader markets.
This is PREDICTABLE.
The problem is whether cash will be hit worse.
 
The stock market “crash” is happening in slow motion already.
It’s predictable … I have withdrawn about 75% of all the funds I managed from the equities market. But trying to counter inflation with stuff like CDs and Money Market funds probably isn’t going to happen. So I’m resigned to losing a lot of money over the next four years and hope I’ll be able to keep my home.
Too bad. The economy WAS doing so well.
Yup. Down over 500 points as of right now. More than 1%. I'm heavily invested. I may call my broker though. I just not sure about the tax consequences.
That’s why I’ve been moving out of equities slowly since last year. What’s left is getting hit pretty hard at the moment but not as hard as the broader markets.
This is PREDICTABLE.
The problem is whether cash will be hit worse.
It WILL be hit. Worse or not is an open question. But hoarding cash is a guaranteed loser. Even with bad inflation, a fixed interest bearing account will be less bad than cash. CDs and money markets might still be losers, but 4+ percent LESS losers than cash.
My problem (with funds I manage) is that I am not an expert who can pick issues or funds that will fare best under these conditions l. So I am seeking relatively safe harbor.
 
In a currency collapse scenario, gold and silver have been currencies long before fiats existed, and have maintained value as paper has come and gone.
In a currency collapse scenario, tinned food likely increases in value far more than gold, has greater liquidity than gold, and has direct utility if it is not used in trade.

It's also less likely to attract thieves in the period when you are waiting for the collapse to happen.

Admittedly, it's less portable than gold, but if the economy has collapsed, where are you planning to go?
The mormons have large food storage rooms, so you've got something there. Fuel, guns/ammo, non perishable food, liquor and anti-biotics will have high value. By weight though, precious gems and gold will likely far exceed that value in barter.
There is this bizarre idea that surviving Armageddon is a good thing.
And what would that "survival" be like even if you managed to survive?
 
Some people almost think we're facing a purely binary choice: EITHER it will be business as usual, OR it will be an Apocalypse, with banknotes and stock certificates being burned in fireplaces for kindling.

In the real world, a "currency collapse" is likely to fall short of a worst-case Apocalypse. I won't try to predict when or how the Big Dollar Collapse will play out but typically debt becomes unsustainable, high inflation and high interest rates arise and banks become highly illiquid or even insolvent. One solution is "haircuts" to bonds (Trump has proposed this) or to bank accounts.
  • During the  2012–2013 Cypriot financial crisis "Cyprus agree[d] to close the country's second-largest bank, the Cyprus Popular Bank (also known as Laiki Bank), imposing a one-time bank deposit levy on all uninsured deposits there, and seizing possibly around 48% of uninsured deposits in the Bank of Cyprus (the island's largest commercial bank)."

(This is why it is good to open multiple bank accounts if your banked savings exceed the government-insured limit. Recently I read that Thailand's banks MIGHT be insolvent)

Cyprus used the Euro so devaluing that currency was not an option. Countries with sovereign currencies may respond to crisis with devaluation. Argentina has been relatively prosperous -- even now its GDP(PPP) per capita is still ahead of Mexico, Thailand and China and nearly as high as Chile -- but has had MANY bouts of hyperinflation over its history. But the best graph that popped up via Google was for Venezuela's recent hyperinflation (see below).

In a scenario like Argentina's or Venezuela's hyperinflation, there will be chaos and great financial grief. Perhaps good Googlers can turn up personal accounts: How were families able to buy food, canned or not? What was used for money? I suppose U.S. dollars make much better money that precious metals in such circumstances so it may be hard to find a precedent for a Dollar collapse.

Color me optimistic perhaps, but I'll guess that the U.S., even with "banana Republic-style" governance, will fare better than those examples in South America.

1280px-Time_BsF_would_take_to_lose_90_percent_of_its_value.png


Same chart for gold. People who bought at the peak in 1980 are still underwater...

Make sure to compare apples with apples. Obviously you are using inflation-adjusted dollars for your gold price, typically NOT used when quoting stock prices. Ignoring dividends, gold purchased at any time during 1997-2005 would have more value today than the same money invested in SP500. (The same applies to gold purchased 1965-1971.)

Let's be clear. I am NOT a gold -bug and am hardly recommending to buy gold as a hedge given today's high price. I am just a Seeker of Truth! I get tired of people twisting the facts to make gold seem like an unusually bad hedge investment. Example: The "1980" above was cherry-picked. I demonstrated that one can also pick cherries from a different tree!

If you must buy gold, are ETFs better than physical metal? Perhaps, unless you suspect the financial crisis will be so severe that there is general collapse.

It costs a good deal to buy physical metals... the cash is paying fees, not buying metals. And if you have lots of gold on you after a currency collapse, best not let anyone know.

What's the sell-buy spread in the U.S. on gold coins? bullion? (The spread on Thai bullion here is quite small.)
 
The stock market “crash” is happening in slow motion already.
It’s predictable … I have withdrawn about 75% of all the funds I managed from the equities market. But trying to counter inflation with stuff like CDs and Money Market funds probably isn’t going to happen. So I’m resigned to losing a lot of money over the next four years and hope I’ll be able to keep my home.
Too bad. The economy WAS doing so well.
Yup. Down over 500 points as of right now. More than 1%. I'm heavily invested. I may call my broker though. I just not sure about the tax consequences.
That’s why I’ve been moving out of equities slowly since last year. What’s left is getting hit pretty hard at the moment but not as hard as the broader markets.
This is PREDICTABLE.
The problem is whether cash will be hit worse.
It WILL be hit. Worse or not is an open question. But hoarding cash is a guaranteed loser. Even with bad inflation, a fixed interest bearing account will be less bad than cash. CDs and money markets might still be losers, but 4+ percent LESS losers than cash.
My problem (with funds I manage) is that I am not an expert who can pick issues or funds that will fare best under these conditions l. So I am seeking relatively safe harbor.
By "cash" I meant an interest bearing account, not pieces of paper. Something that neither rises nor falls with the market.
 
The stock market “crash” is happening in slow motion already.
It’s predictable … I have withdrawn about 75% of all the funds I managed from the equities market. But trying to counter inflation with stuff like CDs and Money Market funds probably isn’t going to happen. So I’m resigned to losing a lot of money over the next four years and hope I’ll be able to keep my home.
Too bad. The economy WAS doing so well.
Yup. Down over 500 points as of right now. More than 1%. I'm heavily invested. I may call my broker though. I just not sure about the tax consequences.
That’s why I’ve been moving out of equities slowly since last year. What’s left is getting hit pretty hard at the moment but not as hard as the broader markets.
This is PREDICTABLE.
The problem is whether cash will be hit worse.
It WILL be hit. Worse or not is an open question. But hoarding cash is a guaranteed loser. Even with bad inflation, a fixed interest bearing account will be less bad than cash. CDs and money markets might still be losers, but 4+ percent LESS losers than cash.
My problem (with funds I manage) is that I am not an expert who can pick issues or funds that will fare best under these conditions l. So I am seeking relatively safe harbor.
By "cash" I meant an interest bearing account, not pieces of paper. Something that neither rises nor falls with the market.
That would be CDs. I don’t know of anything else that is a stock product that is 100% insulated from market variance.
And yeah - it’s my hope, though a faint one, that the CDs I buy this year will bear interest at least equal to the inflation rate.
 
Color me optimistic perhaps, but I'll guess that the U.S., even with "banana Republic-style" governance, will fare better than those examples in South America.

1280px-Time_BsF_would_take_to_lose_90_percent_of_its_value.png
What in the world is the vertical on that thing? It kind of looks log-ish, but it isn't.
 
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