What, exactly, is CRT?

[Trausti]

A Lesson on Critical Race Theory by the American Bar Association


Introduction to Critical Race Theory by Delgado and Stefanic


Overview of concepts and syllabus for CRT class at Brandman University


Tenets of CRT:
View attachment 34743

Asians are a mythical people who do not exist.

 

[Trausti]

What are talking about? 72% of black children are born to unwed mothers. You’re really taking a position that this would not impact inter-generational wealth? Really?!?

Blacks struggle with 72 percent unwed mothers rate

”Blacks as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on, where the vast majority of children do not have fathers in the home married to their mother, involved in their lives, investing in them, investing in the next generation."

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Why won’t most black fathers marry the mother of their children? Redlining, obviously.

 

[Elixir]

”Blacks as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on, where the vast majority of children do not have fathers in the home married to their mother, involved in their lives, investing in them, investing in the next generation."

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

 

[Jarhyn]

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

Families with wealth in them somewhere are always more prepared to support underwhelming parents to make successful children.

Black people have systematically been denied access to wealth.

Hence a discussion about systemic and "momentum" based elements of economic mobility.

 

[Trausti]

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

Huh? Regardless of race, if your parents are married you’ve got a better chance of a good life than if you have a single mom. How is this at all controversial?

 

[Trausti]

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

Families with wealth in them somewhere are always more prepared to support underwhelming parents to make successful children.

Black people have systematically been denied access to wealth.

Hence a discussion about systemic and "momentum" based elements of economic mobility.

How can you possibly begin to create wealth if the father doesn’t stick around? Boys need fathers.

 

[Politesse]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

 

[Jarhyn]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

My guess is that he didn't because there's a lot more steps from A to B, and most of them are clearly dumb. It's slippery slope at it's finest

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

Unwed white parents fare about the same as unwed black parents.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

 

[Jarhyn]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

Ignoring for the moment that none of the things that I present as solutions to existing problems require unfair treatment except the things which explicitly improve the outcome of the system itself, you have a mighty reach to make to declare that these are not real problems for the families trapped on the wrong side of the glass.

No white person I know is more than 3 familial ties from money.

I have as hard a time thinking of black people I know who have wealth ANYWHERE in their family tree as they can trace across the country.

You pretend this is not a real problem.

This is a real problem.

 

[Politesse]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

That really doesn't sound like a solution that is taking CRT into account; it's not a theoretical school that places much weight or optimism in "magic wands". What are you talking about?

Also, there's no rational reason to throw the whole thing into second person. I am not personally the originator of the school of Critical Race Theory, nor an expert in the same, nor do I endorse every aspect of it, nor have I proposed any political actions in this thread. I was just answering the question posed in the OP, since I do know what CRT is.

 

[Worldtraveller]

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

That really doesn't sound like a solution that is taking CRT into account; it's not a theoretical school that places much weight or optimism in "magic wands". What are you talking about?

Also, there's no rational reason to throw the whole thing into second person. I am not personally the originator of the school of Critical Race Theory, nor an expert in the same, nor do I endorse every aspect of it, nor have I proposed any political actions in this thread. I was just answering the question posed in the OP, since I do know what CRT is.

And this is a classic example of how LP operates: He projects his "interpretation" of what you've told him, applying his own ideological lens, as well as projecting motivation, wants, and desired outcomes, along with proposed actions.

None of those things are actually present, except in his own mind.

Then, if the solutions are not absolutely perfect (meaning, they won't affect him personally, in any negative way that he can also project) in every way, then it's "too complicated" or "too hard" or unfair.

Pretty much everything works that way: gun control, justice reform, social justice of any kind.

Now if we could only put him on ignore.....We don't really need to read the same thing over and over.

 

[Politesse]

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

That really doesn't sound like a solution that is taking CRT into account; it's not a theoretical school that places much weight or optimism in "magic wands". What are you talking about?

Also, there's no rational reason to throw the whole thing into second person. I am not personally the originator of the school of Critical Race Theory, nor an expert in the same, nor do I endorse every aspect of it, nor have I proposed any political actions in this thread. I was just answering the question posed in the OP, since I do know what CRT is.

And this is a classic example of how LP operates: He projects his "interpretation" of what you've told him, applying his own ideological lens, as well as projecting motivation, wants, and desired outcomes, along with proposed actions.

None of those things are actually present, except in his own mind.

Well, I'm accused of much the same thing from time to time. Sometimes people really do mean rather more than they literally say, or say things without really thinking through their ultimate implications, and sometimes (I reckon at least) you have to call them out on what they meant but did not say. So, I'm willing to listen if Loren believes that there is a buried paradigm of some kind in my postings. But this connection will need to be made much more explicit before I can really take the accusation seriously. The balm to obfuscation is clarity, not mirrored obfuscation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

Ignoring for the moment that none of the things that I present as solutions to existing problems require unfair treatment except the things which explicitly improve the outcome of the system itself, you have a mighty reach to make to declare that these are not real problems for the families trapped on the wrong side of the glass.

No white person I know is more than 3 familial ties from money.

I have as hard a time thinking of black people I know who have wealth ANYWHERE in their family tree as they can trace across the country.

You pretend this is not a real problem.

This is a real problem.

1) Define "ties with money."

2) Even if there was someone in the family that had money that doesn't mean the person benefited. I don't know any relatives 3 steps out, but I do know that both of my parents were entirely self-made. If there was someone farther out with money it couldn't have any bearing.

 

[Trausti]

Curious as to what you believe drives that stat

Curious.
FIFT:
"Blacks Unwed parents as a group will never be equal while they have this situation going on..."

... unless they're white.

Unwed white parents fare about the same as unwed black parents.

Lefties have such a pathological hatred of the nuclear family that they cannot acknowledge this.

 

[Rhea]

Your failure to see where your position leads doesn't make it go away.

So make the connection for me.

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination.

That sounds like a fabulous idea.

The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

Aaah. So you acknowledge that you received an advantage that you neither earned nor worked for, that was provided on the backs of the labor of others whose fruit was stolen.

BUT,
You are okay with continued disparity, because you are not willing to give up any of your unearned advantage to level that field.

It seems like that’s what you just revealed.

 

[Jarhyn]

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination. The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

Ignoring for the moment that none of the things that I present as solutions to existing problems require unfair treatment except the things which explicitly improve the outcome of the system itself, you have a mighty reach to make to declare that these are not real problems for the families trapped on the wrong side of the glass.

No white person I know is more than 3 familial ties from money.

I have as hard a time thinking of black people I know who have wealth ANYWHERE in their family tree as they can trace across the country.

You pretend this is not a real problem.

This is a real problem.

1) Define "ties with money."

2) Even if there was someone in the family that had money that doesn't mean the person benefited. I don't know any relatives 3 steps out, but I do know that both of my parents were entirely self-made. If there was someone farther out with money it couldn't have any bearing.

So, your parents were "made". You have available wealth immediately. Not even a single step.

And "entirely self made" is bullshit. I know my own family history and I see what made their legacy, and they wouldn't have been allowed to make themselves had they been black. They never would have gotten their feet in the door for a loan and you know as well as I that such momentum carries more now than ever.

Wealth here defined as "has a home with a spare room, and a mortgage, and no real fear of losing it, even with a vagrant family member on the couch".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You basically want society changed to erase the effects of past discrimination.

That sounds like a fabulous idea.

The problem is there is no magic wand to do so, if you want equal outcomes you must have very unequal opportunity--and you'll end up making the problem worse because there's no reason to fix the real problems.

Aaah. So you acknowledge that you received an advantage that you neither earned nor worked for, that was provided on the backs of the labor of others whose fruit was stolen.

BUT,
You are okay with continued disparity, because you are not willing to give up any of your unearned advantage to level that field.

It seems like that’s what you just revealed.

Backwards, you have it.

I didn't receive an advantage from being white.

Some people have received disadvantages from their parents and community. That's what we need to deal with, but it won't be easy. You don't have an easy boogieman in discrimination, the problems are cultural. I do not know how to fix them, but I do know that treating the cause doesn't help unless you have a time machine. You're a doctor in the ER trying to treat a broken bone with a seat belt.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Define "ties with money."

2) Even if there was someone in the family that had money that doesn't mean the person benefited. I don't know any relatives 3 steps out, but I do know that both of my parents were entirely self-made. If there was someone farther out with money it couldn't have any bearing.

So, your parents were "made". You have available wealth immediately. Not even a single step.

And "entirely self made" is bullshit. I know my own family history and I see what made their legacy, and they wouldn't have been allowed to make themselves had they been black. They never would have gotten their feet in the door for a loan and you know as well as I that such momentum carries more now than ever.

Wealth here defined as "has a home with a spare room, and a mortgage, and no real fear of losing it, even with a vagrant family member on the couch".

Which doesn't address the issue I'm pointing out--wealth three steps away doesn't mean the person got any benefit from it. I know there was no benefit from even two steps away. Just the major hindrance of my mother being blind--this long before recordings for the blind existed. She put herself through the university anyway. I do not believe she had to pay for her dog, but that's it as far as help.