Politics Where are you really from?

[Swammerdami]

As will be seen by anyone who reviews my posts in these sort of threads, I am NOT a supporter of the excessive Wokeism that seems to consume many on the American Left. I frequently find myself agreeing with the right-wing whingers on this topic. (Why was To Think that I saw it on Mulberry Street — one of my favorite Dr. Seuss books — banned again? Because it has "Chinaman" instead of "Chinese man"?)

But this thread ASTOUNDS me! If I didn't know better I'd imagine Metaphor to be himself a Wokeist posting an example of how UnWoke some oblivious Wypipo can be. (Personally I would cut the 83-year old Lady Susan some slack. I'm a decade younger and it's hard for me to learn new tricks.)

Perhaps Ms Fulani's recollection of the conversation is inexact. But based on the following account, I'd call EVERY SINGLE ONE of Lady Susan's comments rude, but none of Ms. Fulani's were.

Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:
Lady SH: Where are you from?
Me: Sistah Space.
SH: No, where do you come from?
Me: We're based in Hackney.
SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?
Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.
SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?
Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?
SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?
Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...
SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!
Me: No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.
SH: Oh so you're from...


I congratulate Ngozi Fulani on her total recall. What a boon that would be to me at work.

Now, in my opinion, Fulani deliberately concocted a mountain when she'd been presented with a molehill. If her conversation with SH is correctly recounted, it seems to me Fulani was deliberately not getting the point. Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, ...

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British. But even if it were, so what? Does her skin color make it inappropriate for her to wear "non-British" clothing?

Most U.S.A. blacks were born in the U.S.A. The British Ms. Fulani was born in London. It is understandable that they might want to aspire to some special cultural identity; does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

Fulani was rude in public, indeed given multiple public platforms, and she has no right to be shielded from criticism.

I found Lady Susan's questions to be EXCEEDINGLY rude. Yes, Ms. Fulani evaded the rude questions, but many would do the same. The right-wing whingers in the thread have outdone themselves this time.

If this is the sort of laughable example that the anti-Wokeist Ilk must now stopp to, count me out.

 

[Metaphor]

As will be seen by anyone who reviews my posts in these sort of threads, I am NOT a supporter of the excessive Wokeism that seems to consume many on the American Left. I frequently find myself agreeing with the right-wing whingers on this topic. (Why was To Think that I saw it on Mulberry Street — one of my favorite Dr. Seuss books — banned again? Because it has "Chinaman" instead of "Chinese man"?)

But this thread ASTOUNDS me! If I didn't know better I'd imagine Metaphor to be himself a Wokeist posting an example of how UnWoke some oblivious Wypipo can be. (Personally I would cut the 83-year old Lady Susan some slack. I'm a decade younger and it's hard for me to learn new tricks.)

Perhaps Ms Fulani's recollection of the conversation is inexact. But based on the following account, I'd call EVERY SINGLE ONE of Lady Susan's comments rude, but none of Ms. Fulani's were.

Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:
Lady SH: Where are you from?
Me: Sistah Space.
SH: No, where do you come from?
Me: We're based in Hackney.
SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?
Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.
SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?
Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?
SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?
Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...
SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!
Me: No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.
SH: Oh so you're from...


I congratulate Ngozi Fulani on her total recall. What a boon that would be to me at work.

Now, in my opinion, Fulani deliberately concocted a mountain when she'd been presented with a molehill. If her conversation with SH is correctly recounted, it seems to me Fulani was deliberately not getting the point. Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, ...

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British.

It is not clear to you perhaps, but I do not consult only one source when I decide to post a story. Ms Fulani's dress was obviously non-British.

But even if it were, so what? Does her skin color make it inappropriate for her to wear "non-British" clothing?

May I ask: how on earth do you get to that conclusion? Where have I said that it was inappropriate for Fulani to wear what she did?

Does anyone even read my OPs?

Most U.S.A. blacks were born in the U.S.A. The British Ms. Fulani was born in London. It is understandable that they might want to aspire to some special cultural identity; does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

As for Hussey's interrogation, I have already said, more than once, and within the OP, that Hussey obviously did not take the hint and her persistent questioning was rude.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

Fulani was rude in public, indeed given multiple public platforms, and she has no right to be shielded from criticism.

I found Lady Susan's questions to be EXCEEDINGLY rude. Yes, Ms. Fulani evaded the rude questions, but many would do the same. The right-wing whingers in the thread have outdone themselves this time.

Lady Susan's initial question was not rude. Her persistence was rude and she was oblivious to Fulani's resistance.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

If this is the sort of laughable example that the anti-Wokeist Ilk must now stopp to, count me out.

Count you out of what?

 

[Swammerdami]

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British.

It is not clear to you perhaps, but I do not consult only one source when I decide to post a story. Ms Fulani's dress was obviously non-British.

Something consistent about you and your fellow Ilksters here. You babble on and on and on about your sources, but seldom actually cite them! Why not ... gasp ... actually post a photo of Fulani's costume if it's so important to you?

Does anyone even read my OPs?

I DO study them. With as much attention as they deserve.

... does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

Does "anyone" read my posts? I've enlarged the clause that was evidently in a font too small for you to see. Your browser probably has a Zoom function if it's still too small.

 

[Metaphor]

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British.

It is not clear to you perhaps, but I do not consult only one source when I decide to post a story. Ms Fulani's dress was obviously non-British.

Something consistent about you and your fellow Ilksters here. You babble on and on and on about your sources, but seldom actually cite them! Why not ... gasp ... actually post a photo of Fulani's costume if it's so important to you?

If you do not believe me, you have the ability to find out for yourself what she wore. It was not 'important' to me to post a photo, because I did not believe it was an outrageous claim that needed evidence, but a rather mundane claim that is verifiably true.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

I DO study them. With as much attention as they deserve.

... does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

Does "anyone" read my posts? I've enlarged the clause that was evidently in a font too small for you to see. Your browser probably has a Zoom function if it's still too small.

Your browser has a 'dishonest edit' function which appears to cut out where I address the interrogation claim.

Because of your browser's deficiencies, I will post the again my response:

As for Hussey's interrogation, I have already said, more than once, and within the OP, that Hussey obviously did not take the hint and her persistent questioning was rude.

 

[Toni]

As will be seen by anyone who reviews my posts in these sort of threads, I am NOT a supporter of the excessive Wokeism that seems to consume many on the American Left. I frequently find myself agreeing with the right-wing whingers on this topic. (Why was To Think that I saw it on Mulberry Street — one of my favorite Dr. Seuss books — banned again? Because it has "Chinaman" instead of "Chinese man"?)

But this thread ASTOUNDS me! If I didn't know better I'd imagine Metaphor to be himself a Wokeist posting an example of how UnWoke some oblivious Wypipo can be. (Personally I would cut the 83-year old Lady Susan some slack. I'm a decade younger and it's hard for me to learn new tricks.)

Perhaps Ms Fulani's recollection of the conversation is inexact. But based on the following account, I'd call EVERY SINGLE ONE of Lady Susan's comments rude, but none of Ms. Fulani's were.

Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:
Lady SH: Where are you from?
Me: Sistah Space.
SH: No, where do you come from?
Me: We're based in Hackney.
SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?
Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.
SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?
Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?
SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?
Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...
SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!
Me: No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.
SH: Oh so you're from...


I congratulate Ngozi Fulani on her total recall. What a boon that would be to me at work.

Now, in my opinion, Fulani deliberately concocted a mountain when she'd been presented with a molehill. If her conversation with SH is correctly recounted, it seems to me Fulani was deliberately not getting the point. Fulani was dressed in clothing that was obviously not of native British style or design, ...

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British.

It is not clear to you perhaps, but I do not consult only one source when I decide to post a story. Ms Fulani's dress was obviously non-British.

But even if it were, so what? Does her skin color make it inappropriate for her to wear "non-British" clothing?

May I ask: how on earth do you get to that conclusion? Where have I said that it was inappropriate for Fulani to wear what she did?

Does anyone even read my OPs?

Most U.S.A. blacks were born in the U.S.A. The British Ms. Fulani was born in London. It is understandable that they might want to aspire to some special cultural identity; does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

As for Hussey's interrogation, I have already said, more than once, and within the OP, that Hussey obviously did not take the hint and her persistent questioning was rude.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

Fulani was rude in public, indeed given multiple public platforms, and she has no right to be shielded from criticism.

I found Lady Susan's questions to be EXCEEDINGLY rude. Yes, Ms. Fulani evaded the rude questions, but many would do the same. The right-wing whingers in the thread have outdone themselves this time.

Lady Susan's initial question was not rude. Her persistence was rude and she was oblivious to Fulani's resistance.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

If this is the sort of laughable example that the anti-Wokeist Ilk must now stopp to, count me out.

Count you out of what?

WTF would Fulani be required to wear typical British clothing? Why on earth would that give Lady Hussey carte blanche to be so abominably rude?

 

[Toni]

The link is to a head-shot so it's not clear to me why Metaphor found Ms Fulani's dress obviously non-British.

It is not clear to you perhaps, but I do not consult only one source when I decide to post a story. Ms Fulani's dress was obviously non-British.

Something consistent about you and your fellow Ilksters here. You babble on and on and on about your sources, but seldom actually cite them! Why not ... gasp ... actually post a photo of Fulani's costume if it's so important to you?

If you do not believe me, you have the ability to find out for yourself what she wore. It was not 'important' to me to post a photo, because I did not believe it was an outrageous claim that needed evidence, but a rather mundane claim that is verifiably true.

Does anyone even read my OPs?

I DO study them. With as much attention as they deserve.

... does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

Does "anyone" read my posts? I've enlarged the clause that was evidently in a font too small for you to see. Your browser probably has a Zoom function if it's still too small.

Your browser has a 'dishonest edit' function which appears to cut out where I address the interrogation claim.

Because of your browser's deficiencies, I will post the again my response:

As for Hussey's interrogation, I have already said, more than once, and within the OP, that Hussey obviously did not take the hint and her persistent questioning was rude.

Why was Fulani not allowed to continue to attempt to deflect the obvious rudeness? Why is she not allowed to call out the inappropriateness and rudeness and frank racism without being subjected to criticism from people whose position is, well she wasn't dressed right and why shouldn't she just put up with the line of questioning rather than expect to be treated with courtesy and respect at a professional function?????

 

[laughing dog]

Let me get this straight. A white lady is rude to a black person. The black person publicly complains.

How is the worthy of an OP in “Politics”? And why would an OP focus on the behaviour of one the people?

 

[Politesse]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

 

[thebeave]

This whole forum at times seems like its filled with nothing but rude people. Though, people here seem to not call out the rudeness when its coming from someone within your own in-group.

<Prepares for the onslaught of rude comments>

 

[Toni]

Let me get this straight. A white lady is rude to a black person. The black person publicly complains.

How is the worthy of an OP in “Politics”? And why would an OP focus on the behaviour of one the people?

Well, because she’s, you know: not white. Or properly deferential to a white person.

 

[Toni]

Frankly, I don't see how contradicting someone when they tell you where they are from, and demanding a "real" answer, could be seen as anything other than extremely rude. Like, accusing people of lying at all is rude, let alone about something as conversationally trivial but personally important as one's place of birth.

If there weren't a racial element, the conversation would be baffling. "Where are you from?" "Chicago" "No where are you REALLY from" is a conversation only ever had between a white person and a non-white, because it would not make sense to randomly accuse someone of lying about their place of origin unless you're a racist trying to make someone feel out of place.

Eh, it’s sometimes a getting to know you kind of game, at least in parts of the US, although generally only in social settings or perhaps getting to know a new coworker. Usually looking for common ground or a topic of conversation: Really? You went to the U? That’s where my brother went! Or: my favorite aunt grew up there! Or: I live going fishing in Lake Wobegone, etc.

But definitely can be used to try to place people in the appropriate socioeconomic strata. See “Crazy Rich Asians” for an example.

 

[Politesse]

Eh, it’s sometimes a getting to know you kind of game, at least in parts of the US, although generally only in social settings or perhaps getting to know a new coworker. Usually looking for common ground or a topic of conversation: Really? You went to the U? That’s where my brother went! Or: my favorite aunt grew up there! Or: I live going fishing in Lake Wobegone, etc.

It seems to me that accusing someone of lying about where they are from won't help you "get to know them better", but it will certainly help them get your measure.

 

[Swammerdami]

My post here is OFF-TOPIC. I'm taking the trouble to teach elementary concepts in English composition.

Something consistent about you and your fellow Ilksters here. You babble on and on and on about your sources, but seldom actually cite them! Why not ... gasp ... actually post a photo of Fulani's costume if it's so important to you?

If you do not believe me, you have the ability to find out for yourself what she wore. It was not 'important' to me to post a photo, because I did not believe it was an outrageous claim that needed evidence, but a rather mundane claim that is verifiably true.

You suggest that I hunt for a photo of the woman — not just any photo but a photo of the specific encounter in question! Your link did not contain such a photo. Could I have found such a photo with, say, 90 seconds of Googling? Probably not: my computer has serious speed problems and my Google-fu is poor.

BUT you suggest that that's how I should spend my time You made a point about the clothing, apparently have a link, and refuse to show it Googling for an unimportant photo (which, in any event, is intended to support YOUR point!) is not a high priority for me. Yet you spent more time composing the complaint I've reddened than it would have taken you to post the photo or link! We've seen this sort of behavior before. I wonder if you see why I find it to border on hilarity.

(True, I could probably find the photo in less time than I'm taking to write this, but I do not want the photo. It's a better use of my time to write a brief essay on elementary rhetoric.)

I want to stress that I am NOT insulted or irritated by the Metaphor post I am excerpting from. The flaws I point out are ones we've seen before, and the very consistency of this style offers its own entertainment value.

... does this give Wypipo the right to notice their skin color and start an interrogation? ( Perhaps they should be required to wear badges showing an ethnic-mix summary of their DNA?)

What on earth are you talking about? White people have 'the right' to 'notice' skin colour, because every human being has that right. Like, what on earth are you talking about?

Although I have added color, underlining and font size-change, this is a word-for-word rendition of a specific paragraph in Metaphor's post. No words or punctuations were elided. Clearly I am complaining about the interrogation yet Metaphor responds — whether from laziness, poor reading skill, or actual malice I won't guess — that my complaint was about the noticing.

To conflate the noticing with the interrogation is a blunder so surprising that it almost dazzles!

Does "anyone" read my posts? I've enlarged the clause that was evidently in a font too small for you to see. Your browser probably has a Zoom function if it's still too small.

Your browser has a 'dishonest edit' function which appears to cut out where I address the interrogation claim.

Because of your browser's deficiencies, I will post the again my response:

As for Hussey's interrogation, I have already said, more than once, and within the OP, that Hussey obviously did not take the hint and her persistent questioning was rude.

Yes, you conceded that Lady Susan was also rude. But paragraphs need to stand on their own merits — this is a basic fact of essay composition taught in secondary schools in the U.S.A.

Whether Lady Susan was rude or not, and whether you've conceded that rudeness or not, has no bearing whatsoever on your conflation of noticing and interrogation. My reprimand was intended as a helpful hint toward proper rhetoric.

As for the browser's "dishonest edit" function, if this refers to the ability to abbreviate posts by snipping out paragraphs irrelevant to the reply — I wish! Instead I do this editing manually. Try it sometime!

 

[TomC]

This whole forum at times seems like its filled with nothing but rude people. Though, people here seem to not call out the rudeness when its coming from someone within your own in-group.

<Prepares for the onslaught of rude comments>

I wanna give this post 20 likes, but I can only do one.

 

[TomC]

What I'm seeing is two privileged British bitches having a clash of entitlements.

Amusing, but unimportant.

I say, "Oil them up, put them in a tub, and sell it on pay-per-view."
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Let me get this straight. A white lady is rude to a black person. The black person publicly complains.

How is the worthy of an OP in “Politics”? And why would an OP focus on the behaviour of one the people?

Yup, something you'd see in the gossip column.

 

[TomC]

"The late Queen's lady-in-waiting has since resigned."

There's so much nonsense going on here. That's what keeps amusing me.

How does one "resign" from being a dead Queen's "lady-in-waiting"?

Ha ha ha! The British and their affectations are funnier than the Kardashians and Trumps and other stuff I find stupid. But the Brits can do British and I'll ignore the insanity of my own country as best I can.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Eh, it’s sometimes a getting to know you kind of game, at least in parts of the US, although generally only in social settings or perhaps getting to know a new coworker. Usually looking for common ground or a topic of conversation: Really? You went to the U? That’s where my brother went! Or: my favorite aunt grew up there! Or: I live going fishing in Lake Wobegone, etc.

It seems to me that accusing someone of lying about where they are from won't help you "get to know them better", but it will certainly help them get your measure.

Well, there’s that…

 

[Metaphor]

WTF would Fulani be required to wear typical British clothing?

How do you get to that statement? Whoever said such a thing?

Why on earth would that give Lady Hussey carte blanche to be so abominably rude?

How do you get to that statement? Whoever said such a thing?

 

[Metaphor]

Let me get this straight. A white lady is rude to a black person. The black person publicly complains.

How is the worthy of an OP in “Politics”? And why would an OP focus on the behaviour of one the people?

Yup, something you'd see in the gossip column.

It's all over the British press, including multiple stories in the BBC.