Where is Bernie Goetz when you need him?

[Ford]

Thug?

Foreign Thug, or Thug American?

Silly! Foreigners aren't thugs! They're either illegal immigrants or Islamic terrorists.

 

[Toni]

I’m not sure why it is so important to you to justify your lack of reasoning and reading skills and being wrong. Just accept that’s exactly what you did and move on.

Actually, it isn't certain Toni was wrong. And if she was wrong, it was hardly a mistake that warrants dozens of posts to hash out their crime.

Well, I was wrong to base anything on Derec's post. I relied on his well documented and lengthy history of using thug as a code word for young black male who he disapproves of. That was sloppy of me and wrong. Generally, I do my own digging before I leap in. This time, I did not. I had a headache. Which isn't a good excuse but that's what I've got.

 

[RavenSky]

Just wanted to acknowledge this post (mainly because it is the only on-topic post in the last several pages) and let you know that I did read the linked article. Thank you for the update on the actual case!

And the video is not being released because the suspects are too young to reveal their identities let alone their race.

So circling back to the OP, Derec wants vigilantes to gun down teenagers on a train full of innocent bystanders.

Anybody else think that's a bad idea?

VERY bad idea

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except he has repeatedly stated that "thug" is not a racial term.

The way he uses it is clearly racist. You and he both have a hard time applying the term to whites even when the whites meet your stated definition of 'thug'.

If you and Derec were in the habit of calling young blacks males 'buckos', you and he could claim that the word 'buckos' isn't racist and that would be true. But it wouldn't change the fact that the views you express when you're talking about buckos are racist. And if someone read a post written by you or Derec that was about buckos doing something criminal, it would be perfectly reasonable to suppose you were talking trash about blacks in general, as you and he so often do.

No. We are unwilling to accept your definition that one violent act makes someone a thug. "Thug" is a lifestyle, not an individual action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why? The news reports controversy. If they were black that unfortunately would be expected.

^^and there we have it^^

Loren, most crime in the US is committed by white males. That's one point.

The other is that crimes by persons of color are reported very prominently, ( and in my local paper, with photos I f the suspect is black, Hispanic or Asian) precisely to reinforce the misperception that POCs are criminal and to be feared.

Crime generally only makes the news when it's not routine, expected crime. This requires that the victim be someone that we do not expect to be a victim of that sort of crime, or else that the crime is very dramatic in nature.

Anyone can be the victim of property crime so it's rarely news. People from all classes use drugs, again, not news. Fraud also strikes across the spectrum, it's generally only news if it's quite large (for example, the local estate attorney who apparently made off with several million in client funds) or the target is somehow special (funds allocated for some specific purpose for children, for example.)

That basically leaves crimes of violence.

Most of these consist of criminals doing bad things to other criminals--not news.

There are also sex crimes--due to the stigma these generally are not reported unless someone high profile is involved.

This leaves a small subset of the original--and this last group has a far higher percentage of black perpetrators than the original.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you actually have anything to say or are you just stuttering?

Yes to the former, and no to the latter.

Just because you don't like a reality doesn't make it go away, nor is attempting to suppress any mention of it an appropriate answer.

How could any rational person equate the repetition of a remark 3 times with an attempt to suppress it?

Because your repetition is an attempt to call it wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

Because your repetition is an attempt to call it wrong.

Give your explanation above - you've cherry-picked the definition to a small subset. Even at that point, you have provided no data. So, up to this point, it is wrong.

Moreover, as any rational person would understand, calling something wrong is not an attempt to suppress anything. No one is stopping you from repeating your unsubstantiated bigoted claims. On the contrary, I encourage you to repeat your claims as often as you like.

 

[Toni]

^^and there we have it^^

Loren, most crime in the US is committed by white males. That's one point.

The other is that crimes by persons of color are reported very prominently, ( and in my local paper, with photos I f the suspect is black, Hispanic or Asian) precisely to reinforce the misperception that POCs are criminal and to be feared.

Crime generally only makes the news when it's not routine, expected crime. This requires that the victim be someone that we do not expect to be a victim of that sort of crime, or else that the crime is very dramatic in nature.

Anyone can be the victim of property crime so it's rarely news. People from all classes use drugs, again, not news. Fraud also strikes across the spectrum, it's generally only news if it's quite large (for example, the local estate attorney who apparently made off with several million in client funds) or the target is somehow special (funds allocated for some specific purpose for children, for example.)

That basically leaves crimes of violence.

Most of these consist of criminals doing bad things to other criminals--not news.

There are also sex crimes--due to the stigma these generally are not reported unless someone high profile is involved.

This leaves a small subset of the original--and this last group has a far higher percentage of black perpetrators than the original.

.

Um, Loren, this is inaccurate, false, misleading and devoid of any kind of actual data, which is available on various websites.

You can do much better than that.

Whether you will or not is up to you.

 

[Arctish]

The way he uses it is clearly racist. You and he both have a hard time applying the term to whites even when the whites meet your stated definition of 'thug'.

If you and Derec were in the habit of calling young blacks males 'buckos', you and he could claim that the word 'buckos' isn't racist and that would be true. But it wouldn't change the fact that the views you express when you're talking about buckos are racist. And if someone read a post written by you or Derec that was about buckos doing something criminal, it would be perfectly reasonable to suppose you were talking trash about blacks in general, as you and he so often do.

No. We are unwilling to accept your definition that one violent act makes someone a thug.

I don't know where you got that definition, but it wasn't from me.

"Thug" is a lifestyle, not an individual action.

You and I agree on this point. Being a thug is not a one-off event. It's a mindset, and it's usually apparent in an individual's personal history, their recorded statements, and the choices they make to either seek confrontation and/or incite violence, or to avoid confrontation, seek non-violent solutions, and/or simply retreat.

Where we disagree is this: you don't use the term to describe whites who display the mindset of a thug, but I do; also, you use the term to describe blacks even without evidence they have that mindset (and you freely invent stories to justify your name-calling), and I don't.

ETA: I started a thread for defining the term here. We can take our side discussion there.

 

[Derec]

Why do you continue to ignore most of my posts if you are going to reply to them. He has used the term for anyone from peaceful black protestors to black victims of police violence to violent black criminals.

I never referred to peaceful protesters, black or otherwise, as "thugs".
And most people on the receiving end of police violence are thugs.

To get back on topic, one of the unnamed thugs has been arrested.
BART makes first arrest in teen takeover robbery as police declare ‘emergency

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Where we disagree is this: you don't use the term to describe whites who display the mindset of a thug, but I do; also, you use the term to describe blacks even without evidence they have that mindset (and you freely invent stories to justify your name-calling), and I don't.

ETA: I started a thread for defining the term here. We can take our side discussion there.

I'm perfectly willing to apply it to whites that exhibit thug behavior. It's just the examples provided aren't thugs.

 

[Arctish]

Where we disagree is this: you don't use the term to describe whites who display the mindset of a thug, but I do; also, you use the term to describe blacks even without evidence they have that mindset (and you freely invent stories to justify your name-calling), and I don't.

ETA: I started a thread for defining the term here. We can take our side discussion there.

I'm perfectly willing to apply it to whites that exhibit thug behavior. It's just the examples provided aren't thugs.

Come join me and Derec in the other thread so we can talk about what, exactly, is a thug.

 

[laughing dog]

Where we disagree is this: you don't use the term to describe whites who display the mindset of a thug, but I do; also, you use the term to describe blacks even without evidence they have that mindset (and you freely invent stories to justify your name-calling), and I don't.

ETA: I started a thread for defining the term here. We can take our side discussion there.

I'm perfectly willing to apply it to whites that exhibit thug behavior. It's just the examples provided aren't thugs.

They are as much thugs as Tamir Rice was. And you called Tamir Rice a thug.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm perfectly willing to apply it to whites that exhibit thug behavior. It's just the examples provided aren't thugs.

They are as much thugs as Tamir Rice was. And you called Tamir Rice a thug.

No. I said he was raised to fear authority. I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

 

[laughing dog]

They are as much thugs as Tamir Rice was. And you called Tamir Rice a thug.

No. I said he was raised to fear authority. I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

You claimed he learned his thuggish lifestyle from his mother. So, in essence, you called two black people thugs even though you have no clue how they actually lived their lives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. I said he was raised to fear authority. I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

You claimed he learned his thuggish lifestyle from his mother. So, in essence, you called two black people thugs even though you have no clue how they actually lived their lives.

I said he learned to fear cops. I didn't say he was a thug.

 

[untermensche]

They are as much thugs as Tamir Rice was. And you called Tamir Rice a thug.

No. I said he was raised to fear authority. I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

No.

He was taught that authority is arbitrary and many times prejudiced and young black men are many times treated differently than young white men by authority and he should be aware of those facts.

 

[RavenSky]

I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

This is a flat out false statement

 

[laughing dog]

You claimed he learned his thuggish lifestyle from his mother. So, in essence, you called two black people thugs even though you have no clue how they actually lived their lives.

I said he learned to fear cops. I didn't say he was a thug.

You claimed he learned his thuggish lifestyle from his mother.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I also said he knew the "gun" was illegal so he tried to ditch it when confronted by the cops.

This is a flat out false statement

Are you saying I didn't say that?!

Or that he didn't know the "gun" was illegal? He was warned about the lack of the orange tip.

 

[RavenSky]

This is a flat out false statement

Are you saying I didn't say that?!

Or that he didn't know the "gun" was illegal? He was warned about the lack of the orange tip.

1. It was not a gun
2. Allegedly having another child - who is the one who admits to taking the orange tip off - supposedly saying something about it needing an orange tip is not a "warning"
3. He did NOT try to "ditch it when confronted by the cops"

I am so fucking sick of you repeating these blatant falsehoods over and over as if you think the rest of us don't remember the FACTS of this case. I don't recall if you personally used the word "thug" to describe Tamir Rice (though at least a few people here most certainly did), but the blatant falsehoods you keep repeating are just as bad. You keep demonizing this child who was essentially murdered by the two incompetent cops.