Who is responsible for pregnancies? (Derail from: Policies that will reduce abortions)

[TSwizzle]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

 

[Toni]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

 

[TSwizzle]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

 

[Toni]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

 

[TSwizzle]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.

 

[Metaphor]

You evidently do not understand. You appear to think women have no agency, and cannot decide to keep sperm away from their vaginas.

Your easy misogyny and dehumanisation and infantilisation of women is tiresome.

Fertilised eggs require both an egg and a sperm. Women bring half the ingredients to the table. Deal with it.

Wow. Just because you disagree with what I write is no reason to pretend that you do not adequately understand the written word and are therefore able to simply substitute insults for cogent arguments.

It seems to me that he understands you fine, he's just saying something you don't want to hear.

No, Loren, you’ve got that wrong. I’ve stated a simple fact of biology: every single pregnancy begins with a man ejaculating.

Every single pregnancy begins with an ovulation.

That is what causes pregnancy.

The ejaculation of sperm causes no life to begin. It is the fusion of sperm and egg that causes a fertilised egg. But for women's eggs, there would be no human conception.

Men are losing their minds over some woman having the unmitigated gall to state that simple fact of biology.

Almost every single word in the above sentence is wrong, including 'to' and 'of'.

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

 

[Toni]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.

I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.

 

[Emily Lake]

Toni: Well if Men don't A.
TSwizzle: Well if Woman don't B.

Toni didn't say not B'ing, she said not A'ing. B'ing is possible without A'ing. In fact, a lot of B'ing can happen without any A'ing. B'ing without A'ing isn't a guaranteed sure thing, but it notably reduces the risk, and effectively eliminates it if suited up.

Toni effectively said, one should buckle up to avoid getting hurt/killed in car accident, where as TSwizzle says don't drive in a car. It really is silly.

Solid Analogy!

 

[Tigers!]

What is so hard about the concept of both parties being responsible?

Alright. Let's unpack this.

In your view, what actions should each party take to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy? What actions do you expect a responsible woman to take, and what actions do you expect a responsible man to take?

Men:
1. Ask the woman is the time of her cycle such that pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility. If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or when a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

Women:
You are most familiar with your cycle. Are you using some from of birth control?
1. Is pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility? If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or man wears a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

In all instances no sex for a time will kill no one.

 

[Jarhyn]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.

I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.

I will take only the slightest moment to recognize, and recognize also how unimportant it is that this is not always true.

Particular folks have no control, on occasion, over certain spontaneous ejaculations.

It is unimportant owing to the fact that almost universally, this event happens while their pants are zipped up, before it gets anywhere close to a vagina.

 

[TSwizzle]

Men don’t want to hear any thing that implies they have any responsibility regarding pregnancy.

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Why do you think you know what I want? I have never said that I wanted to absolve women from any responsibility for pregnancy {snip}

You have never once acknowledged that women bear some responsibility for getting pregnant. You have concocted all sorts of nonsense to blame the man and only the man for a woman becoming pregnant.

I don’t attach ‘blame’ for a pregnancy. I don’t see it as something anyone is ‘to blame’ for.

All I’ve done is state the absolute biological fact that every pregnancy begins with some guy ejaculating.

Yes you did and the thread is not about biology, it's about responsibility for getting pregnant.

Can you show me any post where I wrote that men are to blame for pregnancy?

Responsible/blame, whatever. But you have never once acknowledged women be responsible for unwanted pregnancy.

Pregnancy is a biological process. One cannot divorce that fact from any discussion about pregnancy and how pregnancy happens.

Yes, we all know and acknowledge that so there is no need to post it again. Stay on topic.

I’m totally on topic. Men ejaculating in or near vaginas is what causes pregnancy.

Yes, women must be ovulating or have just ovulated or be just about to ovulate—a biological process women cannot control without medical intervention, and an intervention not all women are able to tolerate.

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.

If woman doesn't want to get pregnant she needs to not be having the penis in the vagina sexy time. She is responsible for the vagina and the egg.

 

[Emily Lake]

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

No, that is not what Toni (or I) want. The reality right now is that women bear the physical responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. And additionally women bear the social responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. Women are *expected* to take the pill, and if they don't, then they are considered to be "responsible" for "getting themselves" pregnant. In this very thread, it has been stated that it's really easy for a woman to not get pregnant - just don't have sex. The responsibility for avoiding a pregnancy is placed almost entirely on the women. We have to take pills that mess with our cycles, give us migraines, increase our risk of stroke, make us gain weight, and cause depression and anxiety. We have to go to a doctor and get a prescription in order to take those pills. We have to go to a pharmacist to get those pills. We have to take them every day without fail for them to work properly. The responsibility that women are expected to take in order to avoid pregnancy is something that affects us every single day regardless of whether we're actually having sex or not. And it comes with increased health risks.

What we're asking for is that men ALSO are *expected* to be responsible for the avoidance of pregnancy. Especially when the responsibility that men would need to take is so miniscule in comparison. You can buy a condom any time, at many locations, without a prescription or a doctor's visit. You can stock them up. You don't need to use them every day, you can easily just use them when you are about to have sex. They don't cause you ANY health risks or side effects at all.

It's monumentally easier for men to be responsible for avoiding a pregnancy.

And yet... the social expectation is that women take the responsibility, so that... men don't have to lose a teensy bit of sensation during sex, or be inconvenienced by thinking about it.

FFS, "So girls, keep your panties on and legs closed" is something you say without batting an eye. Why the fuck aren't you ALSO saying "so boys, keep it zipped and in your pants"?

It takes both a male and a female to fertilize an egg, you're right. But only one of us can actually, literally control where their gamete is deposited. Easily, with very little effort. But it's the other one - the one of us who cannot control where our gametes go - we're the ones expected to either forego sex or be 100% responsible for not "falling pregnant".

 

[Toni]

What is so hard about the concept of both parties being responsible?

Alright. Let's unpack this.

In your view, what actions should each party take to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy? What actions do you expect a responsible woman to take, and what actions do you expect a responsible man to take?

Men:
1. Ask the woman is the time of her cycle such that pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility. If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or when a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

Women:
You are most familiar with your cycle. Are you using some from of birth control?
1. Is pregnancy is a distinct or real possibility? If so then the question becomes is sex causing a child the desired outcome. If no then only 2 options, no sex or man wears a condom (<100% effectiveness).
2. If pregnancy is not a distinct or real possibility then sex is on the table (no pun intended). Still need to discuss condom or not.

In all instances no sex for a time will kill no one.

Not every woman, particularly young women or women in peri menopause, know when they ovulate. Ovulation can be affected by a number of factors such as stress, diet, general health.

This is why the rhythm method fails

Of course women could monitor their ovulation by expensive kits. Or men could just not ejaculate inside or near a vagina.

 

[Emily Lake]

Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".

 

[Emily Lake]

Men, on the other hand, are in control over when, where and whether they ejaculate.

Yep.

 

[Emily Lake]

Not every woman, particularly young women or women in peri menopause, know when they ovulate. Ovulation can be affected by a number of factors such as stress, diet, general health.

No kidding. I've been swinging wildly between 22 and 32 days for the last year. It's anybody's guess when I'm ovulating now.

 

[TSwizzle]

Every male responding in this thread has said both parties bear some responsibility. You want to absolve women of any responsibility.

No, that is not what Toni (or I) want. The reality right now is that women bear the physical responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. And additionally women bear the social responsibility of a pregnancy, men do not. Women are *expected* to take the pill, and if they don't, then they are considered to be "responsible" for "getting themselves" pregnant. In this very thread, it has been stated that it's really easy for a woman to not get pregnant - just don't have sex. The responsibility for avoiding a pregnancy is placed almost entirely on the women. We have to take pills that mess with our cycles, give us migraines, increase our risk of stroke, make us gain weight, and cause depression and anxiety. We have to go to a doctor and get a prescription in order to take those pills. We have to go to a pharmacist to get those pills. We have to take them every day without fail for them to work properly. The responsibility that women are expected to take in order to avoid pregnancy is something that affects us every single day regardless of whether we're actually having sex or not. And it comes with increased health risks.

What we're asking for is that men ALSO are *expected* to be responsible for the avoidance of pregnancy. Especially when the responsibility that men would need to take is so miniscule in comparison. You can buy a condom any time, at many locations, without a prescription or a doctor's visit. You can stock them up. You don't need to use them every day, you can easily just use them when you are about to have sex. They don't cause you ANY health risks or side effects at all.

Boo-hoo. That's the price women pay if they want the penis in the vagina sexy time. I've had a vasectomy so I did my part along with millions of other men.

It's monumentally easier for men to be responsible for avoiding a pregnancy.

And yet... the social expectation is that women take the responsibility, so that... men don't have to lose a teensy bit of sensation during sex, or be inconvenienced by thinking about it.

FFS, "So girls, keep your panties on and legs closed" is something you say without batting an eye. Why the fuck aren't you ALSO saying "so boys, keep it zipped and in your pants"?

Generally speaking, men do keep their penis in their pants. Until the woman's vagina becomes available for the sex and the fun begins. But sure, blame the man.

It takes both a male and a female to fertilize an egg, you're right. But only one of us can actually, literally control where their gamete is deposited. Easily, with very little effort. But it's the other one - the one of us who cannot control where our gametes go - we're the ones expected to either forego sex or be 100% responsible for not "falling pregnant".

No, not 100% responsible for "falling pregnant" but complicit when allowing the penis in vagina sexy time.

 

[Metaphor]

Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".

A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.

 

[Toni]

Evidently you don't want to hear that but for your eggs, you would never have fallen pregnant.

"Fallen pregnant". Because the woman did that to herself, right? Because she's the one who failed to be responsible about it? Yep. She "fell pregnant". FFS, you're half a step away from "got herself knocked up".

A woman engaged in consensual behaviour that caused her to be pregnant.

Why do you appear so hostile to the fact that eggs are as necessary as sperm in creating a pregnancy? I honestly don't understand it.

Any hostility on my part is purely imaginary.

Male hostility to the simple statement: Every pregnancy is the result of a man ejaculating, OTOH: That’s pretty substantial.

 

[ZiprHead]