Who lies more --- the Left or the Right?

[Politesse]

I think Bomb's point/joke is that, as Dr. House used to say, "Everyone lies.".

That's the part everyone agrees with, not the part that confused everyone.

 

[Shadowy Man]

One more piece of advice. If that was actually intended as a joke, it bombed. Comedy depends on delivery. Your audience lost the thread because you expected them to infer too much. Work on it..

comedy also depends on who the audience is. The same joke may kill with one audience and completely bomb with another. If he intended it to be funny he may have been more successful with a more sympathetic audience.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think Bomb's point/joke is that, as Dr. House used to say, "Everyone lies.". Lieing is a human thing, and people on both sides of the ideological spectrum are humans (who lie). And the more you talk, the more lies you are capable of telling. People are throwing a lot of cherry picked anecdotes about who is doing the lieing, but to really conclude one side is worse than the other, would require more statistically rigorous evaluation. I sense a lot of confirmation bias going on.

Confirmation bias, such as...?

 

[abaddon]

"Everyone lies" is a non-point that deflects from which "side" is the bigger liar.

If one side tells 100 little fibs and the other side tells 50 little fibs along with 50 big lies, then going on about "both sides lie" and "everyone lies" becomes really stupid. There's ONE standout liar in this scenario.

MSNBC routinely exaggerates but they don't routinely, and entirely, turn reality on its head the way FOX does.

 

[RVonse]

Can I give an honorable mention to the lie that "tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations would lead to substantial job creation and economic growth"? I'm sure the wealthy who benefited from it would agree that's a favorite.

An excellent example how both sides tell lies yet (in their own mind) are telling the truth. Economic logic follows if you tranfer payments from a producer to a non producer you get less total economic growth from both individuals following the Laffer curve here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
Sure enough, at the right side of the parabola you have reached 100% taxation where no rational person will produce anything.

But where the lying comes in is that the Republican's think we are always at the right side of the curve (which we aren't) and the Democrats assume we are always at the left side of the parabola (which we may not be). Then there is confusion about who or what is really wealthy. The Democrats would say anyone making 6 figures is wealthy but the Republicans would say you have to be a billionaire to be wealthy.

 

[RVonse]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

Over 100,000 Iraqis died because of the WMD lies. 15,000 or so US soldiers were killed or maimed because of those lies.

Leftist control over the education system and the lies they are telling? Umm... weren't we supposed to be complaining about lies not defaming the education system? I mean, unless you have very specific examples? Up to now, my only complaint with my daughter's education was the number line method of solving remedial math problems.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can I give an honorable mention to the lie that "tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations would lead to substantial job creation and economic growth"? I'm sure the wealthy who benefited from it would agree that's a favorite.

An excellent example how both sides tell lies yet (in their own mind) are telling the truth. Economic logic follows if you tranfer payments from a producer to a non producer you get less total economic growth from both individuals following the Laffer curve here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
Sure enough, at the right side of the parabola you have reached 100% taxation where no rational person will produce anything.

You seriously citing the "Laffer curve"? Should be called the laugher curve. What the curve doesn't indicate are services provided for taxation. As services increase, so would the amenability to higher taxation. IE, you pay more taxes and then there is UHC.

But where the lying comes in is that the Republican's think we are always at the right side of the curve (which we aren't) and the Democrats assume we are always at the left side of the parabola (which we may not be). Then there is confusion about who or what is really wealthy. The Democrats would say anyone making 6 figures is wealthy but the Republicans would say you have to be a billionaire to be wealthy.

You are just making stuff up here about what "Democrats" say. Making 6 figures can make you middle class in some areas and upper class in other areas. My problem is taxing people with $300k income as those with $3 million income.

 

[Gospel]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

Yeah example, please. I'll be upfront: I'm not a big fan of U.S. schools. It's not because of subjects like math, chemistry, biology, English, or algebra. Sure, they sometimes got those wrong, but not intentionally. My real issue was the subtle racist overtones and history class being more propaganda than anything else. I'm in my 50's now so maybe things have changed some since then.

 

[RVonse]

You seriously citing the "Laffer curve"? Should be called the laugher curve. What the curve doesn't indicate are services provided for taxation. As services increase, so would the amenability to higher taxation. IE, you pay more taxes and then there is UHC.

Then just forget about the laffer curve and use some common sense. If the government taxes you more are you going to spend more of your time working more, or are you going skip work to do other things like sleeping or going to the park? And if the government then gives your money to someone who isn't working, will those recipients be inclined to find more income paying work?

There really is a taxation point where no one will produce anything anymore. At 100% taxation why then spend gas money to go to work? Maybe we should tax more or less. But whatever point the government can reach the highest revenue while still growing the economy is where that point should be.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You seriously citing the "Laffer curve"? Should be called the laugher curve. What the curve doesn't indicate are services provided for taxation. As services increase, so would the amenability to higher taxation. IE, you pay more taxes and then there is UHC.

Then just forget about the laffer curve and use some common sense.

People that like to go on about common sense usually lack the perquisites necessary for its use.

If the government taxes you more are you going to spend more of your time working more, or are you going skip work to do other things like sleeping or going to the park? And if the government then gives your money to someone who isn't working, will those recipients be inclined to find more income paying work?

The amount of taxation that is acceptable to the public will be proportional to the services the taxation provides. The Laffer curve is nothing but a shallow, one-dimensional, useless observation.

 

[RVonse]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

Yeah example, please.

The present school system now thinks it can raise your kid better than the parents. The liberal policies of not disciplining bad behavior has caused some teachers not to even feel safe in their own classrooms.

Is it any wonder there are so many home schooled kids nowdays?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

Yeah example, please.

The present school system now thinks it can raise your kid better than the parents.

Do you have examples of this?

The liberal policies of not disciplining bad behavior has caused some teachers not to even feel safe in their own classrooms.

I can only speak anecdotally from my experience as a parent and with someone on the "inside". But generally, the major contributor to violence in schools locally isn't "Liberal policies" but "social media". So the school is looking to get the smart phones out of hands. As far as not disciplining bad behavior, I'm uncertain where that is happening. That has not been my experience. In fact, it seems like the exact opposite.

But I'm certain you must have a lot of data to back up that assertion.

ETA: I'd also be real interested in those "lies" you were referring to that the schools were teaching children.

 

[Patooka]

The lies about the WMD's were pretty big and bad lies. But the lies the left is telling right now are equally (if not more) damaging. The left is in (almost) total control of our education system right now so those lies will follow generations to come.

Okay...

1) Care to supply an example the left is lying about today that is worse?

2) Care to supply proof that the left is in "(almost) total control of our education system"

3) Care to supply examples of lefty lies being taught in schools.

Also, a little over 5% of school kids are homeschooled in the US. 95% aren't. And when you break it up into states, it's the states that are more sympathetic to cousin fucking, teenage pregnancy and MAGA that have the highest percentage of homeschooled kids. I'm sure it's just a coincidence those states have historically had the worst literacy scores in the US - there really isn't anything worth reading into that.

 

[Bomb#20]

Hey Bomb, if you don't like it when confused people make guesses about the vague and confusing things you post ... Comedy depends on delivery. Your audience lost the thread because you expected them to infer too much. Work on it..

Fair points all. None of them justify insinuating homophobia. That was over the top.

 

[RVonse]

Okay...

1) Care to supply an example the left is lying about today that is worse?

The left lies about the foundation of the USA. And while the founders of America were no doubt far from perfect, it is more than disingenuous to use today's standards to judge their actions of the past. Even if the George Washingtons and Thomas Jeffersons were the bad people (which they weren't) the left's extreme indoctrination of youth is a grave blunder to the future of our country. More so than fake WMD's.

 

[Gospel]

One can consider someone an asshole while still acknowledging their positive contributions. For example, look at Kanye West and his impact on hip hop.

 

[Patooka]

Okay...

1) Care to supply an example the left is lying about today that is worse?

The left lies about the foundation of the USA. And while the founders of America were no doubt far from perfect, it is more than disingenuous to use today's standards to judge their actions of the past. Even if the George Washingtons and Thomas Jeffersons were the bad people (which they weren't) the left's extreme indoctrination of youth is a grave blunder to the future of our country. More so than fake WMD's.

Could have sworn I asked you to provide an example. What you posted is your opinion. Be accurate. What was the lie the left has made about the foundation of the USA (a source backing that up would be nice but you do you), and why is it a lie?

 

[Bomb#20]

I really like the voter fraud lie—you know, the one that's trying to destabilize their own country by undermining trust in the electoral process. That one Those two definitely should have won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction.

Good example. FIFY. The Dems and Reps were in on that lie up to their necks. The endless claims that Russia had hacked the 2016 election, complete with co-opting uncritical friendly media, were a playbook for Trump's lies after 2020.

 

[ZiprHead]

I really like the voter fraud lie—you know, the one that's trying to destabilize their own country by undermining trust in the electoral process. That one Those two definitely should have won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction.

Good example. FIFY. The Dems and Reps were in on that lie up to their necks. The endless claims that Russia had hacked the 2016 election, complete with co-opting uncritical friendly media, were a playbook for Trump's lies after 2020.

Senate Intel Releases Election Security Findings in First Volume of Bipartisan Russia Report

Statement from Chairman Burr (R):

“In 2016, the U.S. was unprepared at all levels of government for a concerted attack from a determined foreign adversary on our election infrastructure. Since then, we have learned much more about the nature of Russia’s cyber activities and better understand the real and urgent threat they pose. The Department of Homeland Security and state and local elections officials have dramatically changed how they approach election security, working together to bridge gaps in information sharing and shore up vulnerabilities. The progress they’ve made over the last three years is a testament to what we can accomplish when we give people the opportunity to be part of a solution.

“There is still much work that remains to be done, however. I am grateful to the many states that provided their points of view, which helped inform our recommendations. It is my hope that the Senate Intelligence Committee’s bipartisan report will provide the American people with valuable insight into the election security threats still facing our nation and the ways we can address them.”

Statement from Vice Chairman Warner (D):

“When the Russians attacked elections systems in 2016, neither the federal government nor the states were adequately prepared. Our bipartisan investigation identified multiple problems and information gaps that hindered our ability to effectively respond and defend against the Russian attack in 2016. Since then – and in large part as a result of the bipartisan work done on this issue in our Committee – the intelligence community, DHS, the FBI, and the states have taken steps to ensure that our elections are far more secure today than they were in 2016. But there’s still much more we can and must do to protect our elections. I hope the bipartisan findings and recommendations outlined in this report will underscore to the White House and all of our colleagues, regardless of political party, that this threat remains urgent, and we have a responsibility to defend our democracy against it.”

Why was Paul Manafort giving voter data to Russians?