Who Should Pay Child Support? (Split from Roe v Wade is on deck)

[TomC]

Exclusively means that the woman decides entirely one her own.

That's been my point all along.
The mother decides for herself, the child, and the father.

I think that both adults made a choice. A choice that involved another human being, who had no options, and so both of the adults now have a responsibility.

I love it! Text with no meaning. If you pussyfoot anymore, we'll need an NC-17 rating for this thread. I'd ask what that "responsibility" is, but I know better than to expect an actual response/position on this from you.

Really?
You see no meaning in:
"both adults made a choice. A choice that involved another human being, who had no options,"?

You see no meaning in that?

Despicable ideology you've got, IMHO.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Parasitism is something that only engenders mercy, not an expectation of dignity.

So, humans in need are parasites?
Is that what you mean?
Tom

 

[TomC]

While I can hope that will stop you from appropriating scientific terms to couch your religious beliefs as "science", I am prepared to have my hopes disappointed.

Prepare to be disappointed.
I don't have any such religious beliefs. It's you who keeps referring to basic biological science as religious. Presumably because anything that doesn't suit your world view is religious.

Otherwise, I have no idea why you'd refer to "The Life Cycle of a Primate" as religious beliefs.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

While I can hope that will stop you from appropriating scientific terms to couch your religious beliefs as "science", I am prepared to have my hopes disappointed.

Prepare to be disappointed.
I don't have any such religious beliefs. It's you who keeps referring to basic biological science as religious. Presumably because anything that doesn't suit your world view is religious.

Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

I am not the one calling a fetus "a human being" - you are.

Otherwise, I have no idea why you'd refer to "The Life Cycle of a Primate" as religious beliefs.
Tom

I didn't. I am not responsible for your straw men.

 

[Jarhyn]

Parasitism is something that only engenders mercy, not an expectation of dignity.

So, humans in need are parasites?
Is that what you mean?
Tom

Humans who are abjectly in need are parasites yes. The goal of mercy is to see them live and cease being that, at least where possible.

I would say in some cases, if you are not prepared for the grand mercy of giving someone what they need to be a functional adult, the lesser mercy of a swift death at or near the very beginning is preferable

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exclusively means that the woman decides entirely one her own.

That's been my point all along.
The mother decides for herself, the child, and the father.

I think that both adults made a choice. A choice that involved another human being, who had no options, and so both of the adults now have a responsibility.

I love it! Text with no meaning. If you pussyfoot anymore, we'll need an NC-17 rating for this thread. I'd ask what that "responsibility" is, but I know better than to expect an actual response/position on this from you.

Really?
You see no meaning in:
"both adults made a choice. A choice that involved another human being, who had no options,"?

You see no meaning in that?

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that. So, yeah... your post didn't actually illuminate what your position actually is, and you keep pussyfooting here. And then get a little snippy when called on it... instead of elaborating. Which again, implies you are doing it intentionally.

 

[TomC]

Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

To what religious beliefs are you referring?
Be specific.
Very specific.

My referring to "Life Cycle of a Primate" is not a religious belief.

So be specific. To which religious beliefs are you referring?
Tom

 

[TomC]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?

How about you just say what your position is on abortion on demand (legal or illegal). And then if abortion is legal, are male parents responsible to help support the born child if the woman doesn't abort.

*not holding my breath*

 

[TomC]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?

How about you just say what your position is on abortion on demand (legal or illegal). And then if abortion is legal, are male parents responsible to help support the born child if the woman doesn't abort.

*not holding my breath*

We aren't talking about abortion on this thread.

Feel free to describe your opinions on whether the "Life Cycle of a Primate" refers to humans or not.

Not holding my breath.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?

How about you just say what your position is on abortion on demand (legal or illegal). And then if abortion is legal, are male parents responsible to help support the born child if the woman doesn't abort.

*not holding my breath*

We aren't talking about abortion on this thread.

You are repeatedly dragging a woman's choice into this thread. A thread about child support... a thread in which you refuse to say whether a guy has responsibility to support a born child that he fathered, even when explicitly asked. Instead, you want to turn it into a derail on primate development in the womb, as if that has anything to do with a child that is already alive.

 

[laughing dog]

Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

To what religious beliefs are you referring?
Be specific.
Very specific.

My referring to "Life Cycle of a Primate" is not a religious belief.

So be specific. To which religious beliefs are you referring?
Tom

You could not tell my response of "
Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

I am not the one calling a fetus "a human being" - you are." indicates your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious one?"

indicates that your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious belief?

 

[TomC]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?

How about you just say what your position is on abortion on demand (legal or illegal). And then if abortion is legal, are male parents responsible to help support the born child if the woman doesn't abort.

*not holding my breath*

We aren't talking about abortion on this thread.

Feel free to describe your opinions on whether the "Life Cycle of a Primate" refers to humans or not.

You are repeatedly dragging a woman's choice into this thread. A thread about child support... a thread in which you refuse to say whether a guy has responsibility to support a born child that he fathered.

Nope.
I keep repeatedly dragging into this thread the the option of terminating parental responsibility. A very gender discriminatory legal concept, given RvW.

I'm fine with expecting people who choose baby making to be held accountable for the choice. Male and female, I'm not the gender bigot here.
But the world I live in doesn't expect people to take responsibility for their choices concerning baby making.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

To what religious beliefs are you referring?
Be specific.
Very specific.

My referring to "Life Cycle of a Primate" is not a religious belief.

So be specific. To which religious beliefs are you referring?
Tom

You could not tell my response of "
Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

I am not the one calling a fetus "a human being" - you are." indicates your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious one?"

indicates that your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious belief?

Where, exactly, do you find religious beliefs in basic biology?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

To what religious beliefs are you referring?
Be specific.
Very specific.

My referring to "Life Cycle of a Primate" is not a religious belief.

So be specific. To which religious beliefs are you referring?
Tom

You could not tell my response of "
Your previous inept attempts at camoflaging your religious beliefs as science prepared me well.

I am not the one calling a fetus "a human being" - you are." indicates your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious one?"

indicates that your belief that a fetus is a human being is a religious belief?

Where, exactly, do you find religious beliefs in basic biology?
Tom

What are you babbling about? A fetus does not meet the scientific definition of a human being. Hence your insistence a fetus is a human being is non-scientific - it is a religious one (a faith-driven belief, not a fact).

It is becoming apparent to me that you really have no clue what science is.

 

[TomC]

A fetus does not meet the scientific definition of a human being.

Google "Life Cycle of a Primate".

Or don't, it's pretty clear to me that basic science isn't important to you if it interferes with your ideological world view.
Tom

ETA ~This is exactly what I'm mean when I say that discussion of this subject is like talking to creationists. Science matters when it gets you support for your ideological world view. When science doesn't get you that, you just dismiss it as unimportant/wrong. ~

 

[Trausti]

A fetus does not meet the scientific definition of a human being.

This is so bizarre. How has society become so stupid?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I could honestly imply a couple meanings to that.

Could you post what your meanings are? What you think I might have meant?

How about you just say what your position is on abortion on demand (legal or illegal). And then if abortion is legal, are male parents responsible to help support the born child if the woman doesn't abort.

*not holding my breath*

We aren't talking about abortion on this thread.

Feel free to describe your opinions on whether the "Life Cycle of a Primate" refers to humans or not.

You are repeatedly dragging a woman's choice into this thread. A thread about child support... a thread in which you refuse to say whether a guy has responsibility to support a born child that he fathered.

Nope.
I keep repeatedly dragging into this thread the the option of terminating parental responsibility. A very gender discriminatory legal concept, given RvW.

I'm fine with expecting people who choose baby making to be held accountable for the choice.

How kind of you to actually say people that want to have a child should be responsible for said child. But that isn't remotely a controversial question.

Male and female, I'm not the gender bigot here.
But the world I live in doesn't expect people to take responsibility for their choices concerning baby making.

Again, you are vomiting language on a screen without any hope of someone else being able to parse what in the heck you are on about.

 

[bilby]

Whether any particular human being has inherent worth is a very subjective determination. I tend to err on the side of "inherent worth and dignity of all human beings". Not everyone does

This is a statement of religious belief. "Inherent worth" is a religious, not a scientific, concept.

So is "dignity".

You may claim to not be a Roman Catholic, but your position here is completely indistinguishable from that of the RC church, even down to your choice of vocabulary; This is not reason or logic, it's the deeply held, unshakeable, and absolute belief in something that is the result of the brainwashing of children.

It's something that the RCC has spent 1500 years developing and perfecting, and they are very good at it - but it only works on children. Once a person develops the ability to reason, they never again have sufficient trust in authority as to completely internalise things that they are told are absolute moral principles that cannot ever be questioned.

I feel very sorry for you; In a saner world, you could seek some kind of compensation, or at least apology, from the people who abused your developing brain in this way. But that's not the world we live in.

Regardless, nobody has sufficient "inherent worth" or "dignity" as to be allowed to demand the use of another person's body without that person's ongoing consent. Even if withdrawal of that consent results in the death of that "inherently worthy" person and their "dignity".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A fetus does not meet the scientific definition of a human being.

Google "Life Cycle of a Primate".

Or don't, it's pretty clear to me that basic science isn't important to you if it interferes with your ideological world view.
Tom

ETA ~This is exactly what I'm mean when I say that discussion of this subject is like talking to creationists. Science matters when it gets you support for your ideological world view. When science doesn't get you that, you just dismiss it as unimportant/wrong. ~

It is a red herring. Child support thread... development of the child in the womb isn't relevant at this point. A born child has needs. Needs you simply just don't care actually address, as to who is responsible to meet them.