Who Should Pay Child Support? (Split from Roe v Wade is on deck)

[Toni]

It’s amazing to me that men think that having an abortion is an easy, risk free way to ‘get out of their responsibilities’ of gaving a baby, which, btw, also frees the man from all such responsibilities without any medical risk, risk of violence from anti abortion nut jobs, is relatively risk free emotionally and poses zero risks to their future reproductive capacity. Men don’t even need to take a day off of work or school, feel guts out transport, have cramps or bleed. Men don’t even need to avoid sex. They can just live their lives as though nothing happened at all.

The pregnancy has happened. Unless you have a time machine you can't change that.

The safest resolution is early abortion. Thus risk is not an argument here.

The risk associated with an abortion, even an early abortion >0. Of course those risks are borne only by the woman so of course they are negligible. To the man.

Certainly an early abortion is the most convenient outcome for a man who doesn’t want any responsibility for the consequences of his orgasm. Early enough, and the woman’s figure isn’t affected even a little bit. She’ll be good to go in just a few weeks.

You are completely missing my point here.

There is no path forward that doesn't have risk. Abortion is the lowest risk path. Risk has to be compared to the other available options, not against a theoretical perfect system.

No, I honestly do get your point. An abortion is less of a health risk than childbirth.

However, for some women, an abortion is unacceptable because of their deeply held personal convictions ( religious or not) or because, learning that they are pregnant changes how they feel about having a child.

One must also consider that for some women, an unexpected pregnancy might also be the last or only chance she has at giving birth.

There are many scenarios and circumstances that affect the choice a woman will make. Being forced to have an abortion is horrific and also Carrie’s long term consequences fir the woman.

My position is that no one should force a woman to abort or to carry a pregnancy. The choice must be hers.

 

[Elixir]

My position is that no one should force a woman to abort or to carry a pregnancy. The choice must be hers.

+1

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, I honestly do get your point. An abortion is less of a health risk than childbirth.

However, for some women, an abortion is unacceptable because of their deeply held personal convictions ( religious or not) or because, learning that they are pregnant changes how they feel about having a child.

One must also consider that for some women, an unexpected pregnancy might also be the last or only chance she has at giving birth.

There are many scenarios and circumstances that affect the choice a woman will make. Being forced to have an abortion is horrific and also Carrie’s long term consequences fir the woman.

My position is that no one should force a woman to abort or to carry a pregnancy. The choice must be hers.

She wants something non-standard, discuss it and agree beforehand!

 

[Toni]

No, I honestly do get your point. An abortion is less of a health risk than childbirth.

However, for some women, an abortion is unacceptable because of their deeply held personal convictions ( religious or not) or because, learning that they are pregnant changes how they feel about having a child.

One must also consider that for some women, an unexpected pregnancy might also be the last or only chance she has at giving birth.

There are many scenarios and circumstances that affect the choice a woman will make. Being forced to have an abortion is horrific and also Carrie’s long term consequences fir the woman.

My position is that no one should force a woman to abort or to carry a pregnancy. The choice must be hers.

She wants something non-standard, discuss it and agree beforehand!

Who are you to decide what is or is not ‘standard?’ Is it whatever the man wants?

Why does the man get to control what the woman does or does not do with her body? In fact, he needs HER permission to do what he wants to her body.

Why should she be compelled to agree to whatever a man wants? Do you really think women cannot get along without sex with men? There is a very thriving sex toy industry that provides some interesting alternatives.

Why should the man not have to agree in advance to whatever the woman wants?

I know enough about the sex market to know which way the demand works.

 

[Rhea]

She wants something non-standard, discuss it and agree beforehand!

Most people would agree that this is the ideal.

But then it’s you missing the point that the reality of pregnancy changes people’s minds, both male and female, about parenthood. It just does.

There are laws that say a woman with a contract for adoption has the right to change her mind, as well, FYI. I would hope they wouldn’t make a last minute change, but clarly it is enough of a reality that it is planned for.

I would support wanting the discussion to happen beforehand. It should.
But there are a LOT of people, both male and female, who want parenthood when it arrives.


Best bet for men who don’t want children is to advocate hard for male LARCs. Or get a vasectomy, which can usuallyo be reversed.

 

[TomC]

But then it’s you missing the point that the reality of pregnancy changes people’s minds, both male and female, about parenthood. It just does.

It certainly did mine.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

It’s amazing to me that men think that having an abortion is an easy, risk free way to ‘get out of their responsibilities’ of gaving a baby, which, btw, also frees the man from all such responsibilities without any medical risk, risk of violence from anti abortion nut jobs, is relatively risk free emotionally and poses zero risks to their future reproductive capacity. Men don’t even need to take a day off of work or school, feel guts out transport, have cramps or bleed. Men don’t even need to avoid sex. They can just live their lives as though nothing happened at all.

The pregnancy has happened. Unless you have a time machine you can't change that.

The safest resolution is early abortion. Thus risk is not an argument here.

The risk associated with an abortion, even an early abortion >0. Of course those risks are borne only by the woman so of course they are negligible. To the man.

Certainly an early abortion is the most convenient outcome for a man who doesn’t want any responsibility for the consequences of his orgasm. Early enough, and the woman’s figure isn’t affected even a little bit. She’ll be good to go in just a few weeks.

You are completely missing my point here.

There is no path forward that doesn't have risk. Abortion is the lowest risk path. Risk has to be compared to the other available options, not against a theoretical perfect system.

No, I honestly do get your point. An abortion is less of a health risk than childbirth.

However, for some women, an abortion is unacceptable because of their deeply held personal convictions ( religious or not) or because, learning that they are pregnant changes how they feel about having a child.

One must also consider that for some women, an unexpected pregnancy might also be the last or only chance she has at giving birth.

There are many scenarios and circumstances that affect the choice a woman will make. Being forced to have an abortion is horrific and also Carrie’s long term consequences fir the woman.

My position is that no one should force a woman to abort or to carry a pregnancy. The choice must be hers.

Exactly right.

She wants something non-standard, discuss it and agree beforehand!

Most people would agree that this is the ideal.

But then it’s you missing the point that the reality of pregnancy changes people’s minds, both male and female, about parenthood. It just does.

There are laws that say a woman with a contract for adoption has the right to change her mind, as well, FYI. I would hope they wouldn’t make a last minute change, but clarly it is enough of a reality that it is planned for.

I would support wanting the discussion to happen beforehand. It should.
But there are a LOT of people, both male and female, who want parenthood when it arrives.


Best bet for men who don’t want children is to advocate hard for male LARCs. Or get a vasectomy, which can usuallyo be reversed.

Or as I have argued, for those who do neither of those things, give them the option to pay into a shared risk pool because with risks, either you play the lottery on the natural risk or you play it safe with shared risk pools, or your behavior is that of an asshole and you accept whatever enforcement gets imposed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Great news! With the draft of the reversal of Roe v Wade, men won't need to worry if a woman aborts in Oklahoma (and soon 2/3s the country). A guy fucks a woman, gets her pregnant, he is on the hook. So at least SCOTUS simplifies this for men.