Who might that be, and what does it have to do with the topic of the thread?
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Why Atheists Get the Idea of "Faith" Wrong
- Thread starter Unknown Soldier
- Start date
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Don't forget Walter Sopchak.
DBT
Contributor
Faith is trusting in the truth of your belief without the support of evidence, which turns trust into faith.
abaddon
Veteran Member
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It's the 'special' trust in the 'special' truth of a 'special' conclusion.
Shadowy Man
Contributor
Now we have a new word to try to define: “truth”.
DBT
Contributor
Tigers!
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- Bible believing revelational redemptionist (Baptist)
DBT
Contributor
No, it's just the definition of faith in relation to beliefs held without the support of evidence....which is why it's in the dictionary.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
The fundamental foundatiob of Christianity is a belief that the resurrection story in the gospels is true. A belief in a glorious afterlife if one believes in Jesus and do what god says.
Without that there is no theistic Christianity. The resurrection ties all sects together.
The Apostles Creed I grew up knowing. Christians take the bible as written as the evidence.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
If you have to ask answering would be pointless.....
However to elaborate without pointing to a specific person on the forum some people insist they are inerantly right when the overwhelming response shows the error in views and claims.
When pressured these sorts of folks do what Trump does, ignore it and keep repeating the same unsubstantiated claims over and over and over.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Christian theologians have always had a really bad habit of making up philosophical terms that describes a context with only one possible conclusion; namely Christianity, as defined by the ecumenical councils (Nicea and so on). The modern Western university system was created with this singular task. To train academics to think like Christians. This is why the pope (repeatedly) kept banning professors from teaching Aristotle. Ancient Greek philosophy isn't formulated to have a handy God shaped hole in it. Its language was formulated to allow for every possible philosophical conclusion. Which is why the universities kept teaching Aristotle anyway.
Protestant or Evangelical Christian theologians are in no way better. They're even worse.
Faith is one such word. It's a concept invented by Christians with the sole intent of having belief in the Christian God being the natural conclusion. And we don't need the term. If we're doing general philosophy, it's a useless term, because it only has a function within Christianity and Islam. The Jewish term for faith (Emunah) means something quite different.
Jewish principles of faith - Wikipedia
I think we're better off just scrapping the term all together because it's designed to lead us toward just one highly specialised conclusion. Yes, the Christian theologians who came up with it, did it on purpose. (side note: it was probably Paul who invented it. In His project to make his new form of gentile-facing Judaism, different from Pharisaic or Sadducee Judaism).
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
What exactly is your pont? Christianity is not a religious faith or any kind of faith?
Again nuance. Christians believe the bible stories on faith, it is the 'inspired word of god' as I was told in school. To a true believing Christians the gospels and Jesus stories are the truth.
Hence the cliche about claiming something is the 'gospel truth' or offering to 'swear on a bible ' as an affirmation of telling the truth.
If you actually mix with people in the real world and listen to religious discussions in the media the distinction is always 'religious faith' to distinguish religious beliefs apart from other forms of faith.
Faith is a belief without evidence to supportthe belief.
Can you offer an alternative definition? Preferably with an illustration.
Or do we just take what you say 'on faith'?
Note every time congress runs up to a spending deadline and the threat of an American financial default looms it is said default would damage 'the full faith and credit of the USA'.
Wonder what faith means in that.....
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Nicely put.
Christian theologians have always had a really bad habit of making up philosophical terms that describes a context with only one possible conclusion; namely Christianity, as defined by the ecumenical councils (Nicea and so on). The modern Western university system was created with this singular task. To train academics to think like Christians. This is why the pope (repeatedly) kept banning professors from teaching Aristotle. Ancient Greek philosophy isn't formulated to have a handy God shaped hole in it. Its language was formulated to allow for every possible philosophical conclusion. Which is why the universities kept teaching Aristotle anyway.
Protestant or Evangelical Christian theologians are in no way better. They're even worse.
Faith is one such word. It's a concept invented by Christians with the sole intent of having belief in the Christian God being the natural conclusion. And we don't need the term. If we're doing general philosophy, it's a useless term, because it only has a function within Christianity and Islam. The Jewish term for faith (Emunah) means something quite different.
Jewish principles of faith - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I think we're better off just scrapping the term all together because it's designed to lead us toward just one highly specialised conclusion. Yes, the Christian theologians who came up with it, did it on purpose. (side note: it was probably Paul who invented it. In His project to make his new form of gentile-facing Judaism, different from Pharisaic or Sadducee Judaism).
One thing I learned way back on the forum was Christian theology is always based on an a priori assumption.
OK, so this has nothing to do with the topic. If you post something that addresses atheists allegedly misrepresenting what the religious mean by faith, then I will address your comments.
You're off topic. It isn't my intention to critique the idea of faith as it is used by the religious. Rather, I'm objecting to atheists claiming that the faith of the religious is something that the religious do not say it is. Let me clarify:
Christian theologians have always had a really bad habit of making up philosophical terms that describes a context with only one possible conclusion; namely Christianity, as defined by the ecumenical councils (Nicea and so on). The modern Western university system was created with this singular task. To train academics to think like Christians. This is why the pope (repeatedly) kept banning professors from teaching Aristotle. Ancient Greek philosophy isn't formulated to have a handy God shaped hole in it. Its language was formulated to allow for every possible philosophical conclusion. Which is why the universities kept teaching Aristotle anyway.
Protestant or Evangelical Christian theologians are in no way better. They're even worse.
Faith is one such word. It's a concept invented by Christians with the sole intent of having belief in the Christian God being the natural conclusion. And we don't need the term. If we're doing general philosophy, it's a useless term, because it only has a function within Christianity and Islam. The Jewish term for faith (Emunah) means something quite different.
Jewish principles of faith - Wikipedia
I think we're better off just scrapping the term all together because it's designed to lead us toward just one highly specialised conclusion. Yes, the Christian theologians who came up with it, did it on purpose. (side note: it was probably Paul who invented it. In His project to make his new form of gentile-facing Judaism, different from Pharisaic or Sadducee Judaism).
- religious faith (according to theists) - that which results when one is convinced by trustworthy reasoning and evidence that various doctrines of the supernatural are true
- religious faith (according to atheists) - an irrational tenacity to cling to supernatural beliefs that are unsupported by evidence
No religious group that I know of defines faith that way. You made that up. You've posted an example of the way atheists misrepresent religious faith. It's unfair and dishonest to do so.
Here's the Southern Baptist statement of faith:
Note that we read nothing here about believing without evidence.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Not all evidence is equally credible. Stories about men flying around in the sky like superman are not credible evidence. To believe that such a tall tale is true requires a kind of faith that is alien to rational, scientifically minded folk. To believe there is a ghost living inside me called a soul when no evidence can be presented, only argument, requires a faith alien to me.
So I think your contrasting definitions are pretty good as I presented them.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
It goes directly to your credibility and lack of ability to support your claims. You do not seem to understand your own OP.
What do YOU say faith is and in particular rebellious faith. No quotes, no wiki links, no random quotes from Christians on the net.
Show you undertand your own OP.