Why do Christian zealots insist on lying?

[GenesisNemesis]

Who said...he was buried at Westminster Abbey therefore

Are you hearing voices in your head?

Why bring up where he was buried? What's the relevance? If there is no "therefore" then it's entirely irrelevant.

Hey everybody. Fun fact.
Charles Darwin got married in a Christian church. Vows before God and everything.

Hey everybody. Fun fact. Darwin wrote about HOW HE WASN'T A CHRISTIAN.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You know we can look at what a person said about their beliefs? We have their writings. We can look at it. It's right there.

 

[Politesse]

Hey everybody. Fun fact.
Charles Darwin got married in a Christian church. Vows before God and everything.

Hey everybody. Fun fact. Darwin wrote about HOW HE WASN'T A CHRISTIAN.

Except, of course, that he never wrote this as such; you choose, because of your personal bias, to interpret some sentences about doubts about certain ideas as declarations of claimed religious identity. At any rate, you should have no trouble understanding "why some Christian zealots insist on lying". Like you, they don't think they are lying; they are just unable to detect ambiguity when and where it contradicts with their already accepted views of the world. It is a common problem, epecially in religious studies where people's biases tend to be deeply emotionally ingrained and reinforced by constant community consensus-building with their peers.

 

[Lion IRC]

Another atheist pretending to be a Christian?
...like those artificially low atheists-in-prison stats?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Hey everybody. Fun fact.
Charles Darwin got married in a Christian church. Vows before God and everything.

Hey everybody. Fun fact. Darwin wrote about HOW HE WASN'T A CHRISTIAN.

Except, of course, that he never wrote this as such; you choose, because of your personal bias, to interpret some sentences about doubts about certain ideas as declarations of claimed religious identity. At any rate, you should have no trouble understanding "why some Christian zealots insist on lying". Like you, they don't think they are lying; they are just unable to detect ambiguity when and where it contradicts with their already accepted views of the world. It is a common problem, epecially in religious studies where people's biases tend to be deeply emotionally ingrained and reinforced by constant community consensus-building with their peers.

Yeah, me thinking that because Darwin said he doesn't believe in Christ, and therefore is not a Christian, is totally unreasonable, instead of a basic logical conclusion. Right.

 

[Politesse]

Unless, of course, we're talking about shit that was actually fabricated. Like the Columbine Martyr story earlier referenced in this thread. That was a straightforward lie, and whoever first penned it should burn in hell for exploiting a tragedy to reinforce their stupid emotions.

 

[skepticalbip]

Beliefs are only one aspect of religious life.

I don't think it makes sense to hinge everything on what someone's most private innermost beliefs are. How could you possibly know this, about anyone? Most people don't have that much insight even into themselves let alone anyone else. We only know one another through communication, action, and observation.

Then why the assumption that someone is specifically a Christian? Why not assume they are a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Deist, Atheist, etc.?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Another atheist pretending to be a Christian?
...like those artificially low atheists-in-prison stats?

No, because Christianity was the dominant view in those times, so it would only be natural for an atheist to pretend to be Christian. Your arguments are so easy to refute, it's ridiculous.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Another atheist pretending to be a Christian?
...like those artificially low atheists-in-prison stats?

Those stats aren't artificially low. Atheists know that there's no god looking out for us, so we take more care in cleaning up our crime scenes because there's nobody else to do it for us (aside from minions for higher level atheists, of course). This creates higher levels of reasonable doubt and correspondingly fewer guilty verdicts.

 

[Lion IRC]

I don't think anyone should be called a LIAR for believing that Darwin was an atheist/agnostic/theist...at the time of his death.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I don't think anyone should be called a LIAR for believing that Darwin was an atheist/agnostic/theist
...at the time of his death.

I can't even gather what this comment means. Your brain must've exploded and vomited out something.

 

[Lion IRC]

Another atheist pretending to be a Christian?
...like those artificially low atheists-in-prison stats?

No, because Christianity was the dominant view in those times, so it would only be natural for an atheist to pretend to be Christian. Your arguments are so easy to refute, it's ridiculous.

I wouldn't want to think Darwin lied about his theistic disposition.

Aren't you the one using his (potentially fraudulent) statements as evidence of his beliefs?

One could make a convincing argument that he was faking atheism/agnosticism to win friends in the "scientific" community

 

[GenesisNemesis]

]

I wouldn't want to think Darwin lied about his theistic disposition.

You seem to be conflating theism with Christianity. The question isn't whether he was a theist but whether he was, specifically, a Christian, and you claimed he was a Christian at the time of his death, for which you have no evidence. That's why this thread was started.

 

[Lion IRC]

WTF? I never claimed he was a Christian at the time of his death.
Use the quote function pal!

...or stop pretending that lying bothers you

 

[GenesisNemesis]

WTF? I never claimed he was a Christian at the time of his death.
Use the quote function pal!

...or stop pretending that lying bothers you

You said Darwin and Lincoln were "both great Christian men". How else is one to interpret that? You never made the clarification that "oh he wasn't a Christian at the time of his death though". Oh so I guess he wasn't a Christian!

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Christian zealots: say they never said a thing when that's an entirely reasonable interpretation of what they said.

 

[skepticalbip]

WTF? I never claimed he was a Christian at the time of his death.
Use the quote function pal!

...or stop pretending that lying bothers you

You said Darwin and Lincoln were "both great Christian men". How else is one to interpret that? You never made the clarification that "oh he wasn't a Christian at the time of his death though". Oh so I guess he wasn't a Christian!

I posted somewhere much earlier in the thread that the Christian claim that Darwin was a Christian is technically correct, that he was brought up in his childhood as a Christian. However, through his observation of the natural world and reasoning during his adulthood he concluded that Christian beliefs and claims were wrong. So while technically correct that Darwin was a Christian (as a child), the claim is quiet disingenuous.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

WTF? I never claimed he was a Christian at the time of his death.
Use the quote function pal!

...or stop pretending that lying bothers you

You said Darwin and Lincoln were "both great Christian men". How else is one to interpret that? You never made the clarification that "oh he wasn't a Christian at the time of his death though". Oh so I guess he wasn't a Christian!

I posted somewhere much earlier in the thread that the Christian claim that Darwin was a Christian is technically correct, that he was brought up in his childhood as a Christian. However, through his observation of the natural world and reasoning during his adulthood he concluded that Christian beliefs and claims were wrong. So while technically correct that Darwin was a Christian (as a child), the claim is quiet disingenuous.

My problem is that there was no clarification whatsoever about whether Darwin eventually became skeptical of his religion, giving the impression he was a Christian throughout his entire life.

 

[skepticalbip]

I posted somewhere much earlier in the thread that the Christian claim that Darwin was a Christian is technically correct, that he was brought up in his childhood as a Christian. However, through his observation of the natural world and reasoning during his adulthood he concluded that Christian beliefs and claims were wrong. So while technically correct that Darwin was a Christian (as a child), the claim is quiet disingenuous.

My problem is that there was no clarification whatsoever about whether Darwin eventually became skeptical of his religion.

Exactly, that is the disingenuousness. Their claim is a half truth that they offer as proof that the full truth is false.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Hey everybody. Fun fact.
Charles Darwin got married in a Christian church. Vows before God and everything.

By 'fun' you mean 'meaningless?' And more than a little presumption?
I was married in a Catholic ceremony. Went to wedding school and everything.

I don't know if the vows were 'before god' or not. No sign of anyone's invisible friends watching.