Why is the Afterworld or Heaven(H), as described my most religions, so different from the Real World(RW)?

[Learner]

That applies to you as well

.
Have fun with Learner. You two deserve each other.

It's been a while since we 'deserved each other,' old chum.

 

[steve_bank]

An epic battle of the titans.

I thought it was an earthquake here in Seattle, but it was the thunderous clash of this thread.

 

[Learner]

... concurring to the bit 'having fun' steve...having fun.

 

[southernhybrid]

 

[steve_bank]

... concurring to the bit 'having fun' steve...having fun.

Having fun, at your exegeses.

Are you aware that fun spelled backwards is nuf? There are deep religious implications.

 

[Learner]

If everyone is having fun.... or nuf, then that's a good thing steve.

 

[Michael S. Pearl]

A "God" who rewards only those who believe and support him, morals, values, who we as people does not matter, he only cares about whether we believe or not & those that do not believe & support him are dumped into hell - brutal torture for eternity!

See here. Furthermore, "Faith is not a question of the existence or non-existence of God. It is believing that love without reward is valuable." (Emmanuel Levinas)

The very title asks that question - why are the two worlds so different?

"... 'saintliness' is the foundation of morality. All that one demands of oneself, is demanded of a saint, but what one may demand of the Other is always less." (Emmanuel Levinas)

Consider the possibility that "the two worlds" are portrayed as being "so different" for no reason other than as a way of depicting and emphasizing the need to be - the importance of being - otherwise. Charity and imagination are two of the conditions necessary for being otherwise.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I see now why you put such effort in your rants against Christianity - its as I said, you have some sort of grudge,- it should have been obvious then, now having a glance at some of your other posts.

You must be some sort of Hindu guru who's losing his audience to the 'God of Abraham' and the idea of Heaven, leaving the many 'gods of Brahmin' and the many lives of "earn earn earn, work work work" which even after all that, with all your previous lives of "non sponging"... you may still end up being a turkey in your next life, happy gobbling along with other turkeys - you feel excited Christmas is a coming but you don't exactly know why.

You're not really atheist are you...just rounding up allies for the anti-theist/Christian cause. I get it. But can you acknowledge now, contrary to your statement about ruining from your questions ..
...can you acknowledge Christians don't run away from your questions? They were easy.

I am being lectured by a person who belong to religions that condemn the vast majority of humanity to a brutal hell! - Entire families, women, children, even babies - babies! - to be set apart based on belief and condemned to hell!
The afterworld for unbelievers - Atheists, Hindus, Buddhists - will be like being Jews in a Nazi Germany afterworld - set apart and callously tossed into gas chambers in hell
A Willing Nazi lecturing morals! wow!
And all it took was a cheap and easy promise of an eternal life of comfort! With zero evidence of any such place!
Even Judas did not sell his soul that cheaply
.
And what is my crime? To give a rational response to his fantasies
He is going to get his heaven - the easy lazy life is his but his Heaven is here - as a Dog!
And he can't stand it!
But spew hate on Unbelievers? Condemn women, children, even babies into gas chambers - learner is more than willing!
These people are promised Heaven - the easy good life is theirs - but that is not enough for them
The rest of humanity that does not share their delusions must suffer! Terribly!
These are their coworkers, neighbors, friends, even family, their doctor, their children's teacher - but it does not matter
.
Never have i seen a person in an horrible accident, him and his family lying by the side of the road, bleeding to death
crying out - "Help! But only believers come help me!" NEVER!
An Atheist could stop by and help them to a hospital, a Hindu doctor works to save their lives
They will need blood - that blood could come from anyone, from all walks of life!
.
A child is lost in the forest - thousands of people will turn out to search for that little child
The mother does not care that the person who finds her child and brings him/her to her is an atheist, an unbeliever
.
And yet their hate endures!
Amazing how religion is able to turn good people into willing Nazis!

 

[Ramaraksha]

See here. Furthermore, "Faith is not a question of the existence or non-existence of God. It is believing that love without reward is valuable." (Emmanuel Levinas)

You are taking that quote out of context - He was talking about life on earth & anyway it is one person's opinion
Atheists too have opinions - you respect theirs also?
As for what I wrote - tell me about Heaven - is it not a reward? Easy lazy life - no one mentions any WORK being done, no one even asks!
A mansion for everyone! No work, no worries - the easy lazy life for eternity!
Is that not why there are people - church going people - who have killed themselves - committed suicide?

The very title asks that question - why are the two worlds so different?

"... 'saintliness' is the foundation of morality. All that one demands of oneself, is demanded of a saint, but what one may demand of the Other is always less." (Emmanuel Levinas)

Consider the possibility that "the two worlds" are portrayed as being "so different" for no reason other than as a way of depicting and emphasizing the need to be - the importance of being - otherwise. Charity and imagination are two of the conditions necessary for being otherwise.

the two worlds are different because one is REAL LIFE and the other is a FANTASY
Ancient people living under Kings, Dictators envisioned an afterworld that was similar to the life they had back then
A King, Dictator Putin like "God" sits on his THRONE, Heaven is his KINGDOM & only those who profess to blindly
believe, submit(Islam means submission), obey & sing his praises are allowed in, the rest - the vast majority of people -
Unbelievers - Entire families, women, children, even babies - babies! - are to be callously tossed into gas chambers in hell!
.
But that was life back then and that was the afterworld that they envisioned
What is sad is to understand that these simple, innocent, primitive people made Gods and Religions that fit THEIR way of life back
then but WE, the so-called far more educated, intelligent, armed with far more knowledge, blindly follow their primitive views
of God!
.
Cheap answers won't make fantasies come true
Cheap answers won't make God a Sugar Daddy
Cheap answers won't make God a Putin - to beg, grovel and then live a shameless life as a freeloader like any disgusting
prostitute, gigolo, yes-man, crony or sycophant does

 

[Ramaraksha]

Yes, for sure. The English writing style in the nineteenth century was incredibly longwinded and verbose, partly as a way to impress its gravity upon an audience who had no other measure of the writer's educational background, but mostly because writers at that time were typically paid by the word.

Fiction was even more plagued by this; Dickens is hard to read, Fenimore Cooper even more so. The unabridged Last of the Mohicans never uses one word where twenty would do.

Just because I gave an EXAMPLE you don't have to run with it
I can cut and paste such paragraphs from modern authors also - in fact, just go pick up ANY book - fiction, non-fiction - does not matter & you can see this also
Again, different people - different tastes, different way of looking at things
What got me was the insistence on me changing my writing style - asking me if I could write differently is one thing, insisting on it is another

 

[Ramaraksha]

Charity and imagination are two of the conditions necessary for being otherwise.

They promise an afterworld of hell for the vast majority of human beings - unbelievers
Entire families, women, children, even babies - to be set apart like Jews and callously dumped into gas chambers in hell!
What is our crime? Not sharing their "charity & imagination"!!
Just wow - how you people are so oblivious to the hate that killed Giordano Bruno, the Mayans - hate that they continue to OPENLY
spew out today
These religions have reduced God down to a Putin, a Hitler rewarding only those who believe & support them & condemning the rest
to a brutal hell
Willing Nazis it seems can't see beyond the easy lazy life promised them
As long as you are kept in comfort, you are ready to grovel to a Nazi God!

 

[WAB]

I see now why you put such effort in your rants against Christianity - its as I said, you have some sort of grudge,- it should have been obvious then, now having a glance at some of your other posts.

You must be some sort of Hindu guru who's losing his audience to the 'God of Abraham' and the idea of Heaven, leaving the many 'gods of Brahmin' and the many lives of "earn earn earn, work work work" which even after all that, with all your previous lives of "non sponging"... you may still end up being a turkey in your next life, happy gobbling along with other turkeys - you feel excited Christmas is a coming but you don't exactly know why.

You're not really atheist are you...just rounding up allies for the anti-theist/Christian cause. I get it. But can you acknowledge now, contrary to your statement about ruining from your questions ..
...can you acknowledge Christians don't run away from your questions? They were easy.

I am being lectured by a person who belong to religions that condemn the vast majority of humanity to a brutal hell! - Entire families, women, children, even babies - babies! - to be set apart based on belief and condemned to hell!
The afterworld for unbelievers - Atheists, Hindus, Buddhists - will be like being Jews in a Nazi Germany afterworld - set apart and callously tossed into gas chambers in hell
A Willing Nazi lecturing morals! wow!
And all it took was a cheap and easy promise of an eternal life of comfort! With zero evidence of any such place!
Even Judas did not sell his soul that cheaply
.
And what is my crime? To give a rational response to his fantasies
He is going to get his heaven - the easy lazy life is his but his Heaven is here - as a Dog!
And he can't stand it!
But spew hate on Unbelievers? Condemn women, children, even babies into gas chambers - learner is more than willing!
These people are promised Heaven - the easy good life is theirs - but that is not enough for them
The rest of humanity that does not share their delusions must suffer! Terribly!
These are their coworkers, neighbors, friends, even family, their doctor, their children's teacher - but it does not matter
.
Never have i seen a person in an horrible accident, him and his family lying by the side of the road, bleeding to death
crying out - "Help! But only believers come help me!" NEVER!
An Atheist could stop by and help them to a hospital, a Hindu doctor works to save their lives
They will need blood - that blood could come from anyone, from all walks of life!
.
A child is lost in the forest - thousands of people will turn out to search for that little child
The mother does not care that the person who finds her child and brings him/her to her is an atheist, an unbeliever
.
And yet their hate endures!
Amazing how religion is able to turn good people into willing Nazis!

I sympathize with you Ramaraksha. The notion of hell is the most evil conception mankind has ever hatched. The very idea that Christians preach and talk down to normal, well adjusted people, is the great Sin of the world. Sin is only another word for imperfection. There is no sin. Sin is normalcy.

It's the religious zealot who is abnormal. Just ignore them.

 

[Learner]

Charity and imagination are two of the conditions necessary for being otherwise.

They promise an afterworld of hell for the vast majority of human beings - unbelievers
Entire families, women, children, even babies - to be set apart like Jews and callously dumped into gas chambers in hell!

There are various ideas of Christianity 'from outside' that stray from the Christian narrative (All aspects of love as according to Jesus..) which often get distorted. But going by your understanding: How did you come by the notion that a 'vast majority of human beings and babies are going to hell"?

Does your version of hell get thrown in the lake of fire like its described in scripture? I'm pointing out the different conceptual understanding between us.

Do you also know of the difference in your interpretation between 'fires burning up forever (to burn up and exist no more - destruction) and burning forever, continuous burning? These are not the same. Are all sins really equal? One punishment fits all? I personally don't think so. Jesus has always had his opposing enemies to confuse us, going for centuries from his time (as its written, these things will be).

What is our crime? Not sharing their "charity & imagination"!!
Just wow - how you people are so oblivious to the hate that killed Giordano Bruno, the Mayans - hate that they continue to OPENLY
spew out today
These religions have reduced God down to a Putin, a Hitler rewarding only those who believe & support them & condemning the rest
to a brutal hell
Willing Nazis it seems can't see beyond the easy lazy life promised them
As long as you are kept in comfort, you are ready to grovel to a Nazi God!

A dictatorship couldn't continue to exist if people started to follow what Jesus preached. He will always be that threat if people start to follow his commandments. Unless, you corrupt the message (very difficult now) or take over the churches with false or altered doctrines creating new worships, or simply just destroy/breakdown the churches.

 

[bilby]

How did you come by the notion that a 'vast majority of human beings and babies are going to hell"?

According to most Christian sects' doctrines, non-Christians, and even Christians who don't do it right (ie other sects) are all going to hell.

That's a vast majority of human beings right there. Two thirds of humans are (or were) not Christians of any stripe, so you have a filibuster-proof majority going to hell, even if you think ALL Christians, no matter how awful, will escape that fate.

This includes such philanthropists and worthies as Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin, all of whom were Christians by the broadest definition.

Of course, you could narrow the definition to exclude them, but then the majority bound for Hell just gets even more vast.

It would require a very unusual variant of Christiantity to define the path to avoiding Hell so liberally as to get a majority, or even a large minority, of humans past and present to qualify.

 

[Ramaraksha]

I sympathize with you Ramaraksha. The notion of hell is the most evil conception mankind has ever hatched. The very idea that Christians preach and talk down to normal, well adjusted people, is the great Sin of the world. Sin is only another word for imperfection. There is no sin. Sin is normalcy.

It's the religious zealot who is abnormal. Just ignore them.

No, ignoring them is the wrong move - if we do that why not ignore racism, Anti-semitism, sexism?
We are not going to fight them - just asking what happens to billions of people - families, women, children, babies of unbelievers
Make them explain what goes on
Are unbelievers Jews in this Nazi Afterworld?
Is this their God? Hitler?
Amazing to see so many sell their souls for a cheap promise of an eternal life of ease & comfort - with zero evidence of any such
place
Hence my view that these people end up as lower life forms - they WILL get their Heaven but at a price

 

[Elixir]

Q: Why is the Afterworld or Heaven(H), as described my most religions, so different from the Real World(RW)?​

A: Because unlike the real world, the Afterworld and Heaven do not exist

Other than that they’re identical.

 

[pood]

I sympathize with you Ramaraksha. The notion of hell is the most evil conception mankind has ever hatched. The very idea that Christians preach and talk down to normal, well adjusted people, is the great Sin of the world. Sin is only another word for imperfection. There is no sin. Sin is normalcy.

It's the religious zealot who is abnormal. Just ignore them.

No, ignoring them is the wrong move - if we do that why not ignore racism, Anti-semitism, sexism?
We are not going to fight them - just asking what happens to billions of people - families, women, children, babies of unbelievers
Make them explain what goes on
Are unbelievers Jews in this Nazi Afterworld?
Is this their God? Hitler?
Amazing to see so many sell their souls for a cheap promise of an eternal life of ease & comfort - with zero evidence of any such
place
Hence my view that these people end up as lower life forms - they WILL get their Heaven but at a price

It seems obvious at this point that you subscribe to some eastern religion and believe in the doctrine of reincarnation. Unfortunately for you, there is no more evidence for that, than for the Christian heaven you deprecate.

And, yet again, in your obtuse unwillingness to learn anything about reality, you use a stupid phrase like “lower life forms.” There are no lower life forms.

 

[Ramaraksha]

How did you come by the notion that a 'vast majority of human beings and babies are going to hell"?

According to most Christian sects' doctrines, non-Christians, and even Christians who don't do it right (ie other sects) are all going to hell.

That's a vast majority of human beings right there. Two thirds of humans are (or were) not Christians of any stripe, so you have a filibuster-proof majority going to hell, even if you think ALL Christians, no matter how awful, will escape that fate.

This includes such philanthropists and worthies as Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin, all of whom were Christians by the broadest definition.

Of course, you could narrow the definition to exclude them, but then the majority bound for Hell just gets even more vast.

It would require a very unusual variant of Christiantity to define the path to avoiding Hell so liberally as to get a majority, or even a large minority, of humans past and present to qualify.

There IS a rational down-to-earth explanation for this - that is what I look for
Ancient people living under Kings, Dictators envisioned an afterworld that was similar to the life they had back then
A King, Dictator like Putin "God" sits on his THRONE, Heaven is his KINGDOM & only those who profess to blindly believe,
support, submit, obey and sing his praises are allowed in, the rest kept out to suffer!
But that was life back then and even now in Dictator ruled countries
Take their Terminology - "Commandments, submit(Islam means submission), beg, obey, judge, wrath, punish, mercy, forgive, Fear" - ALL Slave/Servant words!
But then people living under brutal dictators were basically slaves living in fear of their master
.
Those people were not stupid nor evil - that was life back then and we can see why they would think the afterlife would
be similar to the life they had back then
What is shocking is to understand that these simple, innocent people had the good sense to create Gods & Religions that FIT THEIR way of life back then, but WE, the so-called educated, intelligent, armed with far more knowledge blindly follow THEIR primitive views of God!
In every other aspect of our lives we have moved forward except Religion where the Past leads the Future, the Chimp leads the Human
.
I am amazed - I keep asking - where are all those students and teachers who study and teach religion?
Do they ALL blindly read? Can't they see a Dictator? A Putin!
Frightening to think that the top God in the 21st century is Putin! Kim Jong Un!
These are the sickos that Theists pray to!

 

[pood]

A chimp is not a “lower life form” than a human.

 

[Elixir]

Frightening to think that the top God in the 21st century is Putin! Kim Jong Un!
These are the sickos that Theists pray to!

Yup.
The next worst thing is - trying to fix it with MORE religion.