Never mind. This is a derail.Everything is racist.
You started it with “environmental racism.”
Never mind. This is a derail.Everything is racist.
That segment from John Oliver includes a lot of information on red-lining and how minorities were concentrated in areas that were subject to devaluation through industrial development, dumping, land seizures, etc. It is pertinent to lumpenproletariat's questions.
Did you watch the video? What did you think of that proposed pipeline in Memphis meandering through the predominantly black neighborhoods instead of taking the much shorter direct route through the predominantly white ones? The cost of construction per mile of pipeline is very high. What was it about going through the black neighborhoods that made it worth the added construction cost?
There used to be very real issues with redlining. However, these days the discrimination cops need cases to justify their jobs.Lumpenproletariat, please provide the definition of red-lining that you are using. I don't want to get into a multipage discussion of the illegality of racial discrimination and the Constitution's purpose to "promote the general Welfare" only to discover that you aren't using the common one.
I figured that this would be the problem.This definition is also mine (excluding reference to the 1930s), except that the above doesn't say what the "risky" designation is based on (or doesn't say accurately what it's based on). It's based on statistics such as the past credit record of that area, not on counting the number of Blacks or minorities there. But otherwise, the above definition of "redlining" is also mine.
I am quite familiar with redlining. I have many friends who either pay a large amount for insurance, or sometimes decide they can't afford it at all.
I'm not sure why you are comparing flood insurance to racial segregation.I am speaking of flood insurance.
You don't think that socially enforced race segregation is dressed up in risk management in order for white bankers and realtors and neighborhoods to feel secure and not 'racist?'I am quite familiar with redlining. I have many friends who either pay a large amount for insurance, or sometimes decide they can't afford it at all.
I'm not sure why you are comparing flood insurance to racial segregation.I am speaking of flood insurance.
One is risk management. One is socially enforced race segregation.
Tom
No. I don't.You don't think that socially enforced race segregation is dressed up in risk management in order for white bankers and realtors and neighborhoods to feel secure and not 'racist?'
Except the part where a bank is saying they won't loan money to the owner because in the future they won't see as much appreciation in the value of property because of the owner because of the race of the owner. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.Which still doesn't address my point that it's the simplest assumption required to get a consistent picture.Okay, nothing like self-fulfilling prophecy.There used to be very real issues with redlining. However, these days the discrimination cops need cases to justify their jobs.Lumpenproletariat, please provide the definition of red-lining that you are using. I don't want to get into a multipage discussion of the illegality of racial discrimination and the Constitution's purpose to "promote the general Welfare" only to discover that you aren't using the common one.
Thus we get things like the claims of redlining some years back--paying no attention to the fact that what was going on makes more sense as the mortgage bankers considering another factor: expected appreciation.
Has this happened, in the last 30 years?Except the part where a bank is saying they won't loan money to the owner because in the future they won't see as much appreciation in the value of property because of the owner It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, you are operating under the theory that your birth ushered in a brand new world where racism was vanquished—-by capitalism?No. I don't.You don't think that socially enforced race segregation is dressed up in risk management in order for white bankers and realtors and neighborhoods to feel secure and not 'racist?'
I'm pretty sure that redlining is an issue where capitalism triumphed. The overtly racist policies of 1965 were good for business. Today they aren't. Raw greed overcame racism, in that particular instance.
Tom
Lol. No.
Loren isn't much of a CRT'er. He stated it, not me.Has this happened, in the last 30 years?Except the part where a bank is saying they won't loan money to the owner because in the future they won't see as much appreciation in the value of property because of the owner It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"because of the race of the owner."?
I don't think so. I think you're buying a bunch of crap from CRT proponents.
Tom
Maybe you don’t understand what redlining means.This is the same as "Red-lining." It's not about race, or about your religion or sex preference. It's about higher risk for that insurance or loan you're applying for.
Perhaps you answered your own question here?
Objective risk management is quite different from forced race segregation. Maybe you don't understand what "redlining" means? I don't understand your OP?
Gimme a hint.
Tom
It was responsive but I realized a moment after I posted that it probably could be seen as less than kind, so I deleted it. In the meantime, you responded.So, you are operating under the theory that your birth ushered in a brand new world where racism was vanquished—-by capitalism?No. I don't.You don't think that socially enforced race segregation is dressed up in risk management in order for white bankers and realtors and neighborhoods to feel secure and not 'racist?'
I'm pretty sure that redlining is an issue where capitalism triumphed. The overtly racist policies of 1965 were good for business. Today they aren't. Raw greed overcame racism, in that particular instance.
Tom
Lol. No.
This is the kind of unresponsive post I've come to expect.
Technically, redlining was literally a bank circling a neighborhood on a map that they didn't want to do business with. It was generally older areas with older homes. It was thought that these homes couldn't support a 30 year economic life (banks like to finance assets that have a longer life than the term of their loan). These areas tended to be owned by minorities.Crime Score and Credit Score are routinely used in insurance and lending underwriting standards and rating. The redlining occurs when those same criteria are used as a substitute or proxy for race. I've always been on the other side of that argument - I'd love to insure the drug lord's house:
- I can get more premium if it's in a higher crime area
- No one is going to rob the drug lord
- If someone did, they have "internal controls" to deal with it other than filing a claim and drawing attention to themselves
aa
It wasn't that it was unkind.It was responsive but I realized a moment after I posted that it probably could be seen as less than kind, so I deleted it. In the meantime, you responded.
And in not lending such areas money, set the wheels in motion for the outcome they worried about.Technically, redlining was literally a bank circling a neighborhood on a map that they didn't want to do business with. It was generally older areas with older homes. It was thought that these homes couldn't support a 30 year economic life (banks like to finance assets that have a longer life than the term of their loan). These areas tended to be owned by minorities.Crime Score and Credit Score are routinely used in insurance and lending underwriting standards and rating. The redlining occurs when those same criteria are used as a substitute or proxy for race. I've always been on the other side of that argument - I'd love to insure the drug lord's house:
- I can get more premium if it's in a higher crime area
- No one is going to rob the drug lord
- If someone did, they have "internal controls" to deal with it other than filing a claim and drawing attention to themselves
aa
That's not what it meant around here several decades ago.Technically, redlining was literally a bank circling a neighborhood on a map that they didn't want to do business with.