Why YEC can seem plausible

[ideologyhunter]

No one is convincing anyone of anything on this thread. But it's because of the ultimate escape clause for the beleaguered theist: musta-been-a-miracle. Skip from the flood another 23 chapters to Genesis 30:31-43 and you have another Bible folk tale, this one flying in the face of what we now know about acquired traits. Literalists have no trouble with it, because, as always, God was behind it and God can do anything. It's the opposite of checkmate; it's setting up an irrational precondition for a supposedly rational dialogue.
Footnote: Gen. 30:31-43 does not in any way credit God with the success of Jacob's con, but I have seen it defended on that basis.

 

[James Brown]

There's a reason that audiences quickly tired of storytellers using Deus ex Machina to solve plotting holes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Ignoring that, the flood subsides and there are no plants for the herbivores to eat,

Well, in the view of the authors of Genesis, the only things that are 'alive' are those that breathe through their nostrils.

Noah was not charged with bringing insects aboard, or spiders, or freshwater fish, or plants. To their understanding, plants would have just been submerged. No harm done.

When Noah released the Dove, it wasn't to see if the biosphere had recovered, it was just to see if the waters had dropped. And it eventually came back with a fresh olive leaf. Which means that the plant had "survived" 10 months under water.


Which meant it was safe to disembark. Well, safe for everyone except the sacrificial animals, of course.

 

[steve_bank]

Rome had a ste religion as part of overnce, common rituals.

Did the Romans or Greeks actually believe the gods as more than a reflection of human behavior?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wife: 40 days you said. It has been a year on this manure perfumed shit boat. Had I known it was going to be like this, I'd have drowned with everyone else. Didn't god say anything about the manure?
Noah: Naw, he was kind of vague, build a boat, get the animals aboard, everything else dies.
Wife: Gawd... it smells like everything else died on this ship. One fucking window? God not familiar with fluid dynamics?
Noah: *Not the fluid dynamics stuff again*

 

[ideologyhunter]

Noah: This is good. What is it?
Wifey: (smiling) I'm not saying. It's special for you, honey.
Noah: (chews) Well...it's not too stringy...it's a little gamey...I'd say chicken, but it's not, quite. And I love what you did with the sauce and the veggies. No kidding, what is it?
Wifey: (triumphant) Pteranodon!!
Noah: (voice deepens) What did you say?
Wifey: Pteranodon!! The sauce is my creation.
Noah: Wait, you found one floating near the boat, right?
Wifey: Honey, no, you know I don't like to go topside. No, this was from pen 770B. You have seven pairs of the damn things. I took one.
Noah: I had one pair. A breeding pair. Please tell me you took the male.
Wifey: No, it had big tits. You're eating one of 'em.
Noah: You dumb bitch, you know what? You just killed off the pteranodon, did you know that?
Wifey: I'm supposed to know what you have or don't have? And don't call me a bitch. I do all the cooking around here.
Noah: I didn't call you a bitch. I said you acted like a bitch. Not the same thing.
Wifey: You called me a bitch, bitch.
Noah: Doesn't matter, we're both in for it now. Where's my hooch? I'm gonna get shitfaced.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Noah: Alright, we need seven mating pair of the clean animals... one mating pair of the unclean animals... and seven mating pair for the birds.
Ham: Alright, first animal up is a *bends down to read tag* beaver.
Noah: Got it. *writes down 'Beaver'* How many Ham?
Ham: I dunno.
Noah: Well, is it clean or unclean or a bird?
Ham: Well, it doesn't appear to be a bird. But I was hoping you'd know what the clean and unclean animals were.
Noah: I have no idea. I was hoping you knew.
Ham: And you are certain that God said there were clean and unclean animals?
Noah: Yeah. So, does it look clean?
Ham: Never seen a beaver before. Couldn't tell ya.
Noah: Alright, let's put that aside. Next up?
Ham: Looks like a cat.
Noah: What type?
Ham: You mean 'kind'?
Noah: ...
Ham: Looks like a small cat. Darn thing won't stop licking itself. Must be clean.
Noah: Alright, 7 pair of them.
Japeth: You know Noah, if all of these animals are clean, we aren't going to have room.
Noah: Shoot! You're right. It is a big boat, but we need every inch once we start dealing with those large animals back there, rhinostrodons or something.
Ham: Well, what if we just get a big bucket of mud and dunk them in it. Then we just need one pair of that animal.
Japeth: Why does god care if they are clean? I mean, why allow dirty animals at all if he wants clean?
Noah: No idea, he didn't go into that.
Ham: He didn't seem to go into much of anything but the slaughter.
Noah: Okay, we can get a large tub of mud, but those hipposlopamuses and the big ear gray things will need a lot of mud.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Genesis 7: The Change Order

God: So it is about time for you and your family to get on board the ark. Along with the 7 pair of the clean animals, 1 pair...
Noah: WOAH!
God: Hmm... what now?
Noah: Seven pair?
God: Yeah.
Noah: What?! Not one paragraph ago in the last chapter you said one pair each!
God: Must be a typo.
Noah: No... I took notes. This clearly says one pair each, clean, unclean, birds.
God: Oh... you need seven pair of the birds too.
Noah: WHAT?! We just spent one year gathering these animals, and carefully placing them on this boat. We subdivided each of the levels to provide a safe amount of space for ONE pair of animals! And now you are saying we need seven pair of clean animals?!
God: Is that going to be a problem?
Noah: We have to unload the entire boat, redistribute the areas for each animal, get six pair more of the clean animals... can I remind you six pair of elephants, hippos, and rhinos?! Six more pairs, find them, load them... and be prepared for the flood. We had enough food for one pair each!
God: Well, you are going to need to rush it, I see rain drops falling outside.
Noah: Can't you pause the flood?
God: Not really my style to change my plan.
Noah: You've already abandoned the covenant with Adam and Cain... and you just changed the number of animals for the ark at the last fucking second!
God: I told you, that was a typo in Chapter Six.
Noah: No it wasn't!
God: Look, do I need to find some other holy person to save these animals?
Noah: There isn't time if the flood was to start now. Why is it so important to have seven pair?
God: Genetic variation.
Noah: Gena variwhatta?
God: It's complicated. In order for inbreeding to not be an issue, we need at least seven breeding pairs.
Noah: Okay, whatever. All I'm saying is... wait... there are only three breeding pairs for us humans?
God: Oh... that won't do. Man, it is raining hard out there now.
Noah: What type of god are you?!
God: Not a particularly good one, I'll admit.
Noah: We're screwed.
God: Well, you should close the door up. Maybe hope for some divine intervention.
Noah: I'd be afraid to ask.
God: Don't blame ya.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The dog-and-pony flood show is kinda funny because at every turn you need more god magic. That's a lot of pushing the reset button. Couldn't the god wave its magic wand and all the unclean things just disappear without all the imbecilic theatrics? ITS RAINING THIRTY FEET OF WATER EVERY HOUR DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY. The dopiness never ends.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The dog-and-pony flood show is kinda funny because at every turn you need more god magic. That's a lot of pushing the reset button. Couldn't the god wave its magic wand and all the unclean things just disappear without all the imbecilic theatrics? ITS RAINING THIRTY FEET OF WATER EVERY HOUR DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY. The dopiness never ends.

It would make more sense if God was not directly involved. He just sends a Seraphim to see to it, with notes on a napkin. Then as they start trying to work within the set boundaries, THEY have to shore up the physical effort to match the ideal specs.
"Ah, Christ."
"What? What's that?"
"Another problem."
"I realize that, but what did you say? Cries? Crates? What?"
"Uh....never mind that. I just realized there are animals Noah's people cannot reach. They don't even know they exist."
"Oh, cries."
"Stop that. Okay, call down another thousand Angels, start collecting animals from the continents that don't connect to Shipyard One."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The dog-and-pony flood show is kinda funny because at every turn you need more god magic. That's a lot of pushing the reset button. Couldn't the god wave its magic wand and all the unclean things just disappear without all the imbecilic theatrics? ITS RAINING THIRTY FEET OF WATER EVERY HOUR DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY. The dopiness never ends.

This is the trouble with remakes. The Gilgamesh Epic was wildly successful and was ranked top of the Myth Charts for something like 381 weeks. It was Dark Side of the Moon before Dark Side of the Moon. So a bunch of priests think they can milk that with a remake. They did decently with the First Story of Creation, which charted well (but arguably that was just luck). However, the cash cow was exhausted when they tried to transition it to another flood narrative, of which was really cliche by then and everyone was whining that they had had enough flood stories, that the story was riddled with plot holes and it ultimately bombed like The Lone Ranger.

 

[steve_bank]

Ever hear the old Coby routine on Noaf?

Noah is sawing, fooba, fooba.

Noah!!

Noh pauses, fooba, foobah.

Noah!!!!!

Noah, 'That you lord? ... Noah, I want you to build an ark...

Noah. 'What's an ark?'.

 

[excreationist]

Genesis 7: The Change Order

God: So it is about time for you and your family to get on board the ark. Along with the 7 pair of the clean animals, 1 pair...
Noah: WOAH!
God: Hmm... what now?
Noah: Seven pair?
God: Yeah.
Noah: What?! Not one paragraph ago in the last chapter you said one pair each!
God: Must be a typo.

I never realised that before.... that Genesis 6 only talks about two of each animal....

Noah: WHAT?! We just spent one year gathering these animals,

Genesis 7:8-9

Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah​

BTW the reason to bring seven pairs of clean animals is because clean animals can be used for eating and sacrifices so you need some spare ones...

 

[DBT]

How many baby animals can go into hibernation mode for a few months? Ignoring that, the flood subsides and there are no plants for the herbivores to eat, and no spare herbivores for the carnivores to eat....what then?

Rationalizing a myth or fable as reality. Analogous t taking Aesop's Fables as real.

What makes you think that the ancient Hebrews believed the Noah story as real and not just a cultural story?

Not everyone necessarily took them literally, but there are people who believe these stories to be real in this day and age. The taken literally percentage was probably greater in the past.

 

[James Brown]

Genesis 7: The Change Order

God: So it is about time for you and your family to get on board the ark. Along with the 7 pair of the clean animals, 1 pair...
Noah: WOAH!
God: Hmm... what now?
Noah: Seven pair?
God: Yeah.
Noah: What?! Not one paragraph ago in the last chapter you said one pair each!
God: Must be a typo.

I never realised that before.... that Genesis 6 only talks about two of each animal....

Noah: WHAT?! We just spent one year gathering these animals,

Genesis 7:8-9

Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah​

BTW the reason to bring seven pairs of clean animals is because clean animals can be used for eating and sacrifices so you need some spare ones...

Even though the rules and regs about which animals were clean and unclean weren't written down until after the Israelites left Egypt?

(I know, I know...oral tradition.)

 

[excreationist]

Even though the rules and regs about which animals were clean and unclean weren't written down until after the Israelites left Egypt?

(I know, I know...oral tradition.)

Otherwise Noah could just see which animals that came to him had seven pairs....

 

[bilby]

See, this is the point I was making earlier. In order to believe any of this tale actually happened, you need to accept so many absurdities that it is literally less crazy to imagine God giving Noah a nuclear powered steel ship. And yet that idea is so obviously insane that nobody's going to consider it.

At this point, all pretence of reason, logic, evidence, and rationality has gone. Literally anything is acceptable as a motivation to declare the story credible, and so nothing matters. Any and all objections are dismissed by invoking miracles. But if miracles are a part of the tale, why have any non-miraculous elements? Why a flood at all? Why not just have God magic the bad people out of existence? What, in the presence of miracles, is the point of having human involvement at all? What is Noah bringing to the table? He's irrelevant, as are all the other elements of the story apart from God, who is doing stuff for no discernible reason in a way that is both needlessly complex, and physically impossible.

The moral of this story is that God is a batshit crazy genocidal psychopath unbound by the laws of physics.

If such a thing exists, all we can sensibly do is hope He doesn't notice us or care about our little patch of the universe.

Fortunately, it's just a story.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Genesis 7: The Change Order

God: So it is about time for you and your family to get on board the ark. Along with the 7 pair of the clean animals, 1 pair...
Noah: WOAH!
God: Hmm... what now?
Noah: Seven pair?
God: Yeah.
Noah: What?! Not one paragraph ago in the last chapter you said one pair each!
God: Must be a typo.

I never realised that before.... that Genesis 6 only talks about two of each animal....

Noah: WHAT?! We just spent one year gathering these animals,

Genesis 7:8-9

Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah​

BTW the reason to bring seven pairs of clean animals is because clean animals can be used for eating and sacrifices so you need some spare ones...

7 pair for food?

Ham’s son: Rhino again?! My god, if I never eat Rhino again it’ll be too soon.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can we mention how pious Noah is drunk off his ass and naked post flood?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Well, c'mon, the poor fucker had to have had the worst case of survivor guilt ever.