Why YEC can seem plausible

[bilby]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

People haven't changed that much. They didn't know those things, but if they had known, they could easily have understood.

Indeed, understanding is very straightforward. It took astonishing genius to come up with Newton's Laws, or Einstein's theories of Relativity, or any of hundreds of really difficult and complex ideas that have been developed in the last few centuries.

But from the shoulders of these giants, a bunch of very ordinary undergraduates, or even high school students, can come to understand these things. It's not particularly impressive. And these students don't even have the advantage of teachers who are omnicognisant gods. If it's understandable to students today, it would have been understandable to students in the Bronze Age.

So I call 'bullshit' on the notion that Bronze Age people couldn't understand anything that people today can. They lacked opportunity, not ability.

 

[funinspace]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

People haven't changed that much. They didn't know those things, but if they had known, they could easily have understood.

Indeed, understanding is very straightforward. It took astonishing genius to come up with Newton's Laws, or Einstein's theories of Relativity, or any of hundreds of really difficult and complex ideas that have been developed in the last few centuries.

But from the shoulders of these giants, a bunch of very ordinary undergraduates, or even high school students, can come to understand these things. It's not particularly impressive. And these students don't even have the advantage of teachers who are omnicognisant gods. If it's understandable to students today, it would have been understandable to students in the Bronze Age.

So I call 'bullshit' on the notion that Bronze Age people couldn't understand anything that people today can. They lacked opportunity, not ability.

Yazbutt...Yahweh did share with these Bronze age people such important things as not to eat shellfish, not to mix fabric, and most importantly not to mix seed types in your vinyard.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

Yes, that is definitely a believable alternative to 'try and help raise your chosen people above the rest by imparting with them secret knowledge of how the world really works and let them become masters of irrigation and hydrology'.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

Where were they gonna find room for:
1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
2. Genocide -- let's not.
3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.
P.S. You can have as long a foreskin as you want. You can use it as a tote bag. I don't care. Please don't think I care.

 

[Elixir]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

That’s a counter argument based on the assumption of a hapless, crippled god. One that is either uninterested or incapable of raising the level of people’s understanding. It would have been easy to cause them to understand the mechanisms by which disease spreads, eclipses occur and floods occur. But no - the summbich let almost all them drown along with almost all the innocent animals. And all to no effect, since it didn’t modify their sinful behavior in the least.
He could have at least mentioned that such things could be understood.
What a Dick.

 

[James Brown]

It's a common argument among Biblical Literalists that the Bible contains advanced scientific truths. This, they say, is evidence that scripture is divinely inspired, because Bronze Age authors could not have uncovered these truths on their own.

So Jehovah either imparted scientific concepts to biblical authors beyond their ability, or he masked scientific concepts from them so that they don't write above their level of understanding.

But it can't be both.

 

[James Brown]

Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

Where were they gonna find room for:
1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
2. Genocide -- let's not.
3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.

One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."

I'm thinking, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of humans, a better commandment would have been "Wash your hands before eating, praying, or practicing healing." You get to save countless lives from infection, and would likely kickstart the development of germ theory by centuries.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well, c'mon, the Bible had to pack a ton of rules into 1200 pages. For example:
1. Don't eat rock badgers. (Lev. 11:5)
2. Only kill burglars at night. (Ex. 22: 2-3)
3. You're unclean if you touch a menstruating woman for a week after her flow. (Better have mom or sis camp out in the back yard.) (Lev. 15:19, MAV) (My Amplified Version)

Where were they gonna find room for:
1. You should probably boil your water if you're getting sick. There are tons of little critters that you won't see until about 1670, but I, God, am telling you, no fake, they're in there.
2. Genocide -- let's not.
3. Slavery -- trust me, you'll look like dicks in the future if you don't stop this now.
4. Let's not burn each other to ashes if we have different faith stories. C'mon, it's all more or less horseshit, right? Chill out.

One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."

I'm thinking, if you're concerned about the health and well-being of humans, a better commandment would have been "Wash your hands before eating, praying, or practicing healing." You get to save countless lives from infection, and would likely kickstart the development of germ theory by centuries.

No, no, don't boil veal in ITS MOTHER'S milk. It's not a health thing, it's a 'adding insult to injury' thing.

It could have led to a long history of tracking databases, matching mother and offspring even after changes in ownership and storage locations. But instead, the Hebrews adopted a wide safety margin and don't mix any meat with any dairy.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Well, there goes the head cheese milkshake.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

That’s a counter argument based on the assumption of a hapless, crippled god. One that is either uninterested or incapable of raising the level of people’s understanding. It would have been easy to cause them to understand the mechanisms by which disease spreads, eclipses occur and floods occur. But no - the summbich let almost all them drown along with almost all the innocent animals. And all to no effect, since it didn’t modify their sinful behavior in the least.
He could have at least mentioned that such things could be understood.
What a Dick.

It's the argument that bible worshipers are actually Satan worshipers. The only difference between the two, generally speaking, is that one disobeys the other to the point of thinking for itself. We certainly don't want people going around doing that.

 

[excreationist]

One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."....

No, no, don't boil veal in ITS MOTHER'S milk. It's not a health thing, it's a 'adding insult to injury' thing.....

Exodus 23:19

"...Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."​

Exodus 34:26

".....Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."​

Deuteronomy 14:21

"....Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."


​

Actually it is a young goat / kid.... and it is such an important command that it appeared three times....

 

[James Brown]

Why is it so important?

Is it more important than washing your hands? More important than not participating in slavery? More important than freedom of religion, or speech?

One would expect a bit more than a cooking prohibition from something referred to as a Book of Wisdom.

 

[DBT]

If the Bible is meant to be the inspired word of God, the Creator of the Universe, it shouldn't look like a collection of works written and compiled by ancient people based on their own understanding of the world.

A counter-argument is that God wanted to communicate in a way that the people could understand - so that maybe the people at the time couldn't understand there being billions of years, or a spherical earth that orbits the Sun, or people using their head (rather than their heart, etc) to think....

It's also said that God created man in his own image...

 

[ideologyhunter]

One of the official Ten Commandments is "Don't boil veal in milk."....

No, no, don't boil veal in ITS MOTHER'S milk. It's not a health thing, it's a 'adding insult to injury' thing.....

Exodus 23:19

"...Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."​

Exodus 34:26

".....Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."​

Deuteronomy 14:21

"....Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk."


​

Actually it is a young goat / kid.... and it is such an important command that it appeared three times....

It needs a clarifying verse. "Take heed, this kid is the young goat, for when your God sends you into the enemy's camp, you may slay the kids -- the other kind -- by hacking them and their mothers into pieces together, with the milk, blood, and entrails of the mother going whither they may, so saith your God."

Dollars to donuts it said that originally, but some scribe left it out.

 

[bilby]

It's a common argument among Biblical Literalists that the Bible contains advanced scientific truths. This, they say, is evidence that scripture is divinely inspired, because Bronze Age authors could not have uncovered these truths on their own.

So Jehovah either imparted scientific concepts to biblical authors beyond their ability, or he masked scientific concepts from them so that they don't write above their level of understanding.

But it can't be both.

That's the problem throughout these apologetics. The literalist can often find an excuse to believe one facet of whatever tale he's considering, but only by making a string of claims and assumptions that don't appear in the text. Which would be bad enough in itself, but far worse is that the next facet he seeks to defend requires a whole new string of claims and assumptions, many of which contradict the ones he made earlier.

This is a huge red flag for those of us with better medium-term recall than a goldfish; But the literalist simply doesn't seem to notice. He can justify belief in X, and he can justify belief in Y, so he feels completely justified in belief in both X and Y, despite their justifications requiring mutually exclusive supporting conditions.

Trying to unpick these bad arguments is like trying to nail jelly to a ceiling.

 

[ideologyhunter]

What is an example of an 'advanced scientific truth' in the Bible?

 

[bilby]

What is an example of an 'advanced scientific truth' in the Bible?

pi=3

 

[DBT]

What is an example of an 'advanced scientific truth' in the Bible?

The Earth is a Circle, apparenty.

 

[Keith&Co.]

What is an example of an 'advanced scientific truth' in the Bible?

Clouds would break apart from the weight of the rain water they contain if God did not hold them together.

The moon is a light source.

Straked sticks plus monochrome goats equal straked goats.

Life starts at the first breath of air.

 

[DBT]

Four legged insects?