Will Biden drop out? Who replaces him?

[Swammerdami]

Trump also fumbled badly in the debate. He failed to answer a single question, told a bunch of easily discoverable lies, seemed utterly unaware of what was even going on for long stretches, and afterward, fucked off back to the geezer state for a two week long nap.

Claims that Trump lied or said moronic things during the debate miss the whole point. Anyone with the cognitive skill to follow a question all the way to its answer has long since decided who they will vote for. The debate was just to help voters decide whether they'll vote at all (Biden fans were NOT impressed), and to influence voters swayed by tone and demeanor rather than information (Trump swayed them).

We can only guess what is happening in secret meetings, but if top leaders urged Biden to step down and he refused, Shame on Biden. Should we "cross our fingers" and hope for a sudden medical report? Meanwhile, time is fast running out. Soon it will be time for all good men to unconditionally support the incumbent President.

 

[Millrat]

Linking this from Twitter ( I know I know) but it’s a must view/listen to:

Is it though? Complaining about the media is so fucking tiresome. It’s as worthwhile as Ford vs. Chevy.

On the other hand, I recognize how “fake news” helped get trump elected in the first place. (albeit for the wrong reasons)

I wish we could stop calling what that was a “debate”. Debates between presidential candidates should not have corporate sponsors.

 

[TSwizzle]

This is the court that the GOP built under W and Trump. These states are considering this legislation because SCOTUS ruled there is no Constitutional protection to an abortion and Thomas indicated that they should also look at all the protections presumed to exist by SCOTUS tied to the right to privacy.

I'm not fixated on abortion like most on here so I don't have a lot of knowledge on the legal and constitutional standings of the subject. From the little knowledge I do have about the subject the "right" to abortion ruling (Roe v Wade) was always a bit shaky.

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is the court that the GOP built under W and Trump. These states are considering this legislation because SCOTUS ruled there is no Constitutional protection to an abortion and Thomas indicated that they should also look at all the protections presumed to exist by SCOTUS tied to the right to privacy.

I'm not fixated on abortion like most on here so I don't have a lot of knowledge on the legal and constitutional standings of the subject.

You don't say.

From the little knowledge I do have about the subject the "right" to abortion ruling (Roe v Wade) was always a bit shaky.

All rights are shaky. There is no actual litmus test for rights. There is no clear cut yes no guide. The argument for Civil Rights for blacks was designed around the idea of interstate commerce. The right of parents to rear children, the right of married couples and their privacy are all on shaky, especially when hyper-technical jurists want to unsettle things.

Justice Kennedy and O'Conner were stalwart conservatives, but when it came to civil liberties, they always sided with expanding rights. Justice Scalia in Lawrence v Texas which decriminalized gay sex spoke like he was emoting Virginia's lawyers in Loving v Virginia when saying "Men and women, heterosexuals and homosexuals, are all subject to [Texas’] prohibition of deviate sexual intercourse with someone of the same sex."

Now we have a gaggle of Scalias on the court.

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

I'm certain you don't care, just one of the larger issues is that this alt-right court has a tendency to breaks things and then tell the lower courts to figure it out without any guidance. Granted, with the abortion case at least, they did underline the whole, 'women don't have a right to their body regarding abortion' thing.

Regardless, we could discuss the recent kickbacks aren't a "bribe" or that separation of powers inhibits the Legislative Branch from allowing the Executive Branch to manage regulating a venue or providing the President with unprecedented presumed immunity (as long as they have enough people in Congress to prevent impeachment), instead.

 

[Toni]

Linking this from Twitter ( I know I know) but it’s a must view/listen to:

Is it though? Complaining about the media is so fucking tiresome. It’s as worthwhile as Ford vs. Chevy.

On the other hand, I recognize how “fake news” helped get trump elected in the first place. (albeit for the wrong reasons)

I wish we could stop calling what that was a “debate”. Debates between presidential candidates should not have corporate sponsors.

Eh, I take it differently. She wasn't complaining about the media, she was calling them out as to their motivations for the bias they exhibit. Media needs to make money to stay in business, obviously. But people were deliberately making millions and millions and millions with dishonest and deceptive 'reporting' and 'stories' and 'interviews.'

 

[Millrat]

Linking this from Twitter ( I know I know) but it’s a must view/listen to:

Is it though? Complaining about the media is so fucking tiresome. It’s as worthwhile as Ford vs. Chevy.

On the other hand, I recognize how “fake news” helped get trump elected in the first place. (albeit for the wrong reasons)

I wish we could stop calling what that was a “debate”. Debates between presidential candidates should not have corporate sponsors.

Eh, I take it differently. She wasn't complaining about the media, she was calling them out as to their motivations for the bias they exhibit. Media needs to make money to stay in business, obviously. But people were deliberately making millions and millions and millions with dishonest and deceptive 'reporting' and 'stories' and 'interviews.'

Same as it ever was if you ask me.

 

[Elixir]

Same as it ever was if you ask me.

Might be, right now.
But if Trump wins in November (or otherwise obtains the keys to the kingdom) “it” won’t be the same as anything that ever was, on this continent.

 

[laughing dog]

Perhaps I have unwarranted optimism about the wisdom of the remaining “ centrist” voters. I think if this incessant chicken little handwringing over Mr Biden’s “senility” subsided, he’d have a better shot at convincing those voters.

IMO, Ms Harris has no chance of beating Mr Trump. She is jawdroppingly uninspiring to this voter.

I hope you are right, but you must know that the "incessant chicken little handwringing" is not going to stop. Wishful thinking won't make it happen. Biden won't be getting any younger. His speech impediment isn't going to get better, nor will his political instincts. I don't think he has dementia, but he is showing the inevitable decline of old age in a super critical job that requires the drive and stamina of a younger mature individual. Neither of these men are really fit for that office, although the bigoted, poorly educated, mendacious, corrupt rapist and fraudster was arguably unsuitable even as a younger man. Half of the public seems willing to give him another shot at destroying our system of government, and Biden is presenting himself as the only one who can stop Trump.

Harris may be uninspiring to you, but, if you think handwringing over Biden's flaws is a bad idea, what makes you think that handwringing over hers is going to help? She has her flaws, but she is better able to present the case for electing Democrats than Joe Biden at this point in time. If you can overlook Biden's flaws and deficits, you can overlook hers.

I am not handwringing, I don’t think she has a chance. Biden beat Trump once. If people stop this false narrative of him bring “unfit” for office, he can do it again.

False? Please, give me a break. The man undeniably has serious cognitive issues. I’m sorry. It’s just bullshit that they’re throwing at us. The man is unfit. I’ll vote for him before I vote for trump. But Copernicus is right. Not trump is not going to be good enough to motivate people to show up for him.

The job of POTUS is mot like being a talk show host or sales person. It takes intelligence, experience, maturity and the ability to make coalitions. If the voting public is too silky or stupid to grasp that, they desrve Trump.

 

[Elixir]

If the voting public is too silky or stupid to grasp that,

They (we) are.

they desrve Trump.

Nobody deserves that.
But it’s what we’re gonna get, most likely.

 

[SLD]

This is the court that the GOP built under W and Trump. These states are considering this legislation because SCOTUS ruled there is no Constitutional protection to an abortion and Thomas indicated that they should also look at all the protections presumed to exist by SCOTUS tied to the right to privacy.

I'm not fixated on abortion like most on here so I don't have a lot of knowledge on the legal and constitutional standings of the subject. From the little knowledge I do have about the subject the "right" to abortion ruling (Roe v Wade) was always a bit shaky.

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

Abortion rights should be your concern. For starters they really are fundamentally about what rights a person, male or female, has to make medical decisions involving her own body that do not impact others. Women’s rights are human rights. They are not just about women. They impact all of us.

Second the Supreme Court taking away a right at women had for over 50 years is utterly stunning and appalling. The abortion debate is a religious issue. It’s about whether we are going to allow these fucking fundamentalists to rule over the rest of us or whether we are going to retain our basic freedom of religion, including to be an atheist. The rejection of abortion rights has put us under the authority of these cocksuckers in many states and they will seek, and are seeking, to overturn many other constitutional rights we take for granted that stemmed from the abortion ruling. This includes a right to privacy and access to birth control. You can expect even more rights to be rolled back - soon marital rape will be legal and yes they advocate for that. Used to be that way too.

You should really reconsider your position.

 

[thebeave]

Even if you think Biden should stay in the race and let's say he beats Trump, then what? Its pretty clear that at the rate he's going downhill, he ain't gonna make it the whole 4 years. So, its either a) resign soon (likely) into his 2nd term or b) he gets booted out via 25th amendment. Either way, its not going to be pretty. If he's this stubbon about stepping aside now, what's it going to be like when he's in the middle of second term and even more far gone? Is he going to get violent, irrational and/or weepy like a lot of old people do when you take away their car keys or put them in an old folks home? It could get both really sad and/or ugly. Not sure we would be doing anyone (him, his family or the country) any favors by pushing him forward.

 

[Elixir]

You can expect even more rights to be rolled back - soon marital rape will be legal

To some people *ahem* that's expanding a right, not taking one away.

 

[Elixir]

Even if you think Biden should stay in the race and let's say he beats Trump, then what?

Then we would get four years of garbled speech and expert leadership, to follow the last four years of garbled speech and expert leadership.
But never fear; the money is on a Trump regime, which I guarantee will be nothing whatsoever like that. You'll get all the clearly articulated lies you can handle.

 

[thebeave]

Even if you think Biden should stay in the race and let's say he beats Trump, then what?

Then we would get four years of garbled speech and expert leadership, to follow the last four years of garbled speech and expert leadership.
But never fear; the money is on a Trump regime, which I guarantee will be nothing whatsoever like that. You'll get all the clearly articulated lies you can handle.

How come when I replied to your post, I get this (above) but your post says something else. Weird.

Anyway, where is this expert leadership coming from. God Almighty? Kamala? The White House night janitor?

ETA:. Now your post changed again!

 

[TSwizzle]

This is the court that the GOP built under W and Trump. These states are considering this legislation because SCOTUS ruled there is no Constitutional protection to an abortion and Thomas indicated that they should also look at all the protections presumed to exist by SCOTUS tied to the right to privacy.

I'm not fixated on abortion like most on here so I don't have a lot of knowledge on the legal and constitutional standings of the subject. From the little knowledge I do have about the subject the "right" to abortion ruling (Roe v Wade) was always a bit shaky.

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

You should really reconsider your position.

For now, this is the least of my worries and I will leave it to others to figure it out.

 

[Swammerdami]

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

I wonder if I can guess what sex you are. How many tries do I get?

What should disgust every sentient American is how swiftly Red states are criminalizing abortion. In some states, doctors are turning away pregnant women whose lives are threatened, because the doctor isn't sure her condition is life-threatening ENOUGH to qualify as permissible under new state law. Texas is making it illegal for a woman to travel on Texas roads if her intent is to travel to a state where abortion is illegal. Would you care to comment on these, Swizz?

Rather a sudden change in American standards, no? Were the changes in Germany during the early 1930's so sudden and ominous?

 

[Patooka]

I hope you are right, but you must know that the "incessant chicken little handwringing" is not going to stop. Wishful thinking won't make it happen. Biden won't be getting any younger. His speech impediment isn't going to get better, nor will his political instincts. I don't think he has dementia, but he is showing the inevitable decline of old age in a super critical job that requires the drive and stamina of a younger mature individual. Neither of these men are really fit for that office, although the bigoted, poorly educated, mendacious, corrupt rapist and fraudster was arguably unsuitable even as a younger man. Half of the public seems willing to give him another shot at destroying our system of government, and Biden is presenting himself as the only one who can stop Trump.

Harris may be uninspiring to you, but, if you think handwringing over Biden's flaws is a bad idea, what makes you think that handwringing over hers is going to help? She has her flaws, but she is better able to present the case for electing Democrats than Joe Biden at this point in time. If you can overlook Biden's flaws and deficits, you can overlook hers.

Replacing Biden is a bad idea. The people leading the charge with regards to Biden's competency are MAGAtards who aren't acting in good faith. If everyone does what MAGAtards want, I fucking guarantee you that those people will instantly pivot to "You can't vote for candidate X. This is proof Democrats are unstable and unpredictable from the top down. They'll change their leadership at the drop of a hat which the country doesn't need right now. Vote Trump, he's a strong leader"

The reason I know this is because I, like every other Australian over 14, has seen this play out. I've been on record saying that I follow US politics because it gives me an insight on what Australian politicians are going to do - in this instance the reverse is just as true. If you replace Biden the narrative will be "the Dems don't know what they're doing" and it will be far more effective than "Biden is old" because you can't point to Trump's obvious dementia as a counter point.

 

[abaddon]

Replacing Biden is a bad idea. The people leading the charge with regards to Biden's competency are MAGAtards who aren't acting in good faith. If everyone does what MAGAtards want, I fucking guarantee you that those people will instantly pivot to "You can't vote for candidate X. This is proof Democrats are unstable and unpredictable from the top down. They'll change their leadership at the drop of a hat which the country doesn't need right now. Vote Trump, he's a strong leader"

The reason I know this is because I, like every other Australian over 14, has seen this play out[/out]. I've [url=https://iidb.org/threads/why-are-so-many-australians-so-invested-in-the-minutia-of-us-politics.22199/#post-826830]been on record saying that I follow US politics because it gives me an insight on what Australian politicians are going to do - in this instance the reverse is just as true. If you replace Biden the narrative will be "the Dems don't know what they're doing" and it will be far more effective than "Biden is old" because you can't point to Trump's obvious dementia as a counter point.

Yeah. They think the whole issue is how Biden looks to people and don't understand that folk judge the whole party: "Why would I want to vote for these harebrained screwballs?"

It's the democratic party as a whole that needs to consider THEIR electability. Observe all the posts here which show that it's not just Trump but the whole package that's rejected. If it works that way, it works in reverse too.

 

[TSwizzle]

Abortion just isn't an important issue for me. Have at it.

I wonder if I can guess what sex you are. How many tries do I get?

You will definitely get it in two tries since it is a 50/50 chance (male/female) no matter what the misogynist wokesters say.

To save you responding I am male.

 

[Patooka]

If he's this stubbon about stepping aside now, what's it going to be like when he's in the middle of second term and even more far gone? Is he going to get violent, irrational and/or weepy like a lot of old people do when you take away their car keys or put them in an old folks home? It could get both really sad and/or ugly. Not sure we would be doing anyone (him, his family or the country) any favors by pushing him forward.

You understand that's going to happen regardless right? There are two options right now - both are quite capable of the scenario you just described. But I think the candidate who has talked about being President for life, had a book about Hitler's speeches on his bedside table for years and can't bring it upon himself to accept the results of the last election is far far FAR more likely to act in the manner you just described. I'm sure you disagree.

So if Biden and Trump are senile old farts, the question comes down to the differences between Administration. On Biden's side there is a diverse (I'm sure you consider that a bad thing but I don't) group who have by and large stayed on for the entire duration of Biden's term. Their accomplishments are so impressive even FOX has conceded some of them.

Trump's administration on the other hand was a never ending clown car of almost monochromatic grifters who sole accomplishment was because of them, a new unit of measurement for time was invented.