Yet another shooting thread

[southernhybrid]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/03/us/louisiana-minden-former-mayor-and-daughter-killed/index.html

“Joe Cornelius’ years of service to Minden were marked by his commitment and dedication to the betterment of our community,” Mayor Nick Cox said in a release posted to Facebook.“On a personal note, I am grateful for his friendship and the many ways he supported me and others in our city.”

The boy, who was described only as a relative of the victims, has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder and is being held on a $500,000 bond, McIver said. It is unclear if the child will be tried as an adult.

CNN is working to determine if the boy has legal representation.

Joe Cornelius Sr.
City of Minden, LA
Police found the victims in a home with gunshot wounds after a family member called 911, McIver said. Authorities found two weapons hidden on the property, and their calibers matched empty shell casings left at the scene, the chief said without elaborating. It is unknown how the child got hold of the weapons, McIver added.

I haven't read why this kid killed the man who was well known in town, as a local hero of sorts, or why an 11 year old is possibly being charged as an adult. The article says he was related to the man he killed. So sad.....I had initially read about this in the NYT, which said he would be charged as an adult. Maybe they haven't decided yet. Crazy times we live in.

 

[Gospel]

What does "got this way" mean?

I believe he’s referring to how they became the parents of a mass shooter or how a child under their care ended up killing other people's children. Both are entirely reasonable questions.

 

[ZiprHead]

The suspect: Officials said the suspect, identified as Colt Gray, 14, would be charged with murder and prosecuted as an adult.

Kids aren't prosecuted as adults. They're punished as adults.

 

[Derec]

I haven't read why this kid killed the man who was well known in town, as a local hero of sorts, or why an 11 year old is possibly being charged as an adult. The article says he was related to the man he killed. So sad.....I had initially read about this in the NYT, which said he would be charged as an adult. Maybe they haven't decided yet. Crazy times we live in.

This article says that it was an argument over credit card charges for video games. So it really seems like a domestic.

10-year-old boy kills former mayor and his adult daughter over argument about video game credit card charges: Police

The article also identifies him as 10 years old. Perhaps it is close to his 11th birthday, so other sources are rounding up. The article also says that a family member claimed that the boy was autistic, but that law enforcement did not confirm that.

 

[Derec]

The suspect: Officials said the suspect, identified as Colt Gray, 14, would be charged with murder and prosecuted as an adult.

Kids aren't prosecuted as adults. They're punished as adults.

What do you mean by that? Of course some kids are prosecuted as adults.

 

[LoAmmo]

What does "got this way" mean?

I believe he’s referring to how they became the parents of a mass shooter or how a child under their care ended up killing other people's children. Both are entirely reasonable questions.

Every single human in history (of any age) who’s ever killed another one…had parents.

You don’t “become the parent of a mass shooter” so much as you “become the parent of…a baby.” If that baby grows up to shoot someone, you achieve that other label only well after the fact, and, barring some very specific circumstances, not really of your own volition.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What does "got this way" mean?

I believe he’s referring to how they became the parents of a mass shooter or how a child under their care ended up killing other people's children. Both are entirely reasonable questions.

Every single human in history (of any age) who’s ever killed another one…had parents.

You don’t “become the parent of a mass shooter” so much as you “become the parent of…a baby.” If that baby grows up to shoot someone, you achieve that other label only well after the fact, and, barring some very specific circumstances, not really of your own volition.

Bad parenting can easily be a thing in this case, it is just the data is sparse at the moment. [removed]

 

[Derec]

We do not know what this kid's motivation was or even what weapon(s) he used. All we know is that he is 14, in custody and that he will be charged as an adult.

This is bullshit that a fourteen year old will be tried as an adult. A fourteen year old is nowhere near an adult.

This only means that he will be tried in real criminal court and not juvenile court.
I agree that his age should factor into sentencing, but the juvenile system is inadequate to deal with serious crimes committed by teenagers, such as this quadruple murder. The best the juvenile system can do is a few years in juvi.

In LA County, a shooter killing four people would not be charged as an adult even if he was 17 years and 364 days old because of the far-left DA's policies. Is that justice?

 

[Derec]

Charging him as an adult does nothing to address the root causes of these situations, such as the widespread availability of firearms, cultural attitudes toward guns, and other societal issues. When the police made that public announcement I was like, "SO FUCKING WHAT!!" at the screen.

Charging him as an adult ensures that the shooter will not be released after 5 years, which is afaik the maximum sentence under juvenile jurisdiction in Georgia.
Prosecutions of individual offenders do not address societal issues and attitudes. That is not their purpose.

 

[Toni]

We do not know what this kid's motivation was or even what weapon(s) he used. All we know is that he is 14, in custody and that he will be charged as an adult.

This is bullshit that a fourteen year old will be tried as an adult. A fourteen year old is nowhere near an adult.

This only means that he will be tried in real criminal court and not juvenile court.
I agree that his age should factor into sentencing, but the juvenile system is inadequate to deal with serious crimes committed by teenagers, such as this quadruple murder. The best the juvenile system can do is a few years in juvi.

In LA County, a shooter killing four people would not be charged as an adult even if he was 17 years and 364 days old because of the far-left DA's policies. Is that justice?

The question is: should a 10 or 11 year old be charged as an adult?

I would argue that they should not be. I don't know that they should ever be allowed their freedom ---there is a lot not known about this individual or his circumstances, aside from the fact that he had access to lethal weapons.

10 year olds are not old enough to plan ahead as far as being able to reliably do their homework and turn it in on time. It is wrong to prosecute or punish a 10 year old as an adult when they lack the biological, emotional, mental and legal capacity to behave as an adult.

 

[Derec]

An AR-15 type weapon was used... again.

Probably a function of availability of that particular weapon. The Louisiana shooter southernhybrid brought up used a pair of handguns. Also most likely because that is what he had access to.
In a confined space like a school, it is easy to kill four people with a handgun as well.

One of the victims who survived allegedly suffered substantial damage to his hip.

[citation needed]

Gov. Kemp says right now is not the time to talk about how Governments are failing children.

Kemp messed up by relaxing gun laws too much. However, I do not see how demonizing a particular type of weapon is helpful here.

 

[Elixir]

Parents should be held responsible for the child’s behavior if they enable it.
An 18 year old can vote, and needs to be responsible for their own behavior.

I read that there are different procedures for violations committed by a juvenile. Whole different courts too, as I understand it.
Juveniles don't face a jury, they aren't found guilty/not guilty. Juvenile court consists of adjudication, evidence, cross-examining witnesses, and all that stuff.
Could be old info. But if it's the case then "trying him as an adult" has meaning.

 

[Derec]

The question is: should a 10 or 11 year old be charged as an adult?

A 10 or 11 year old? Probably not.
A 14 year old for a crime such as murder? Probably yes.
A 16 or 17 year old? Most definitely.

I would argue that they should not be. I don't know that they should ever be allowed their freedom ---there is a lot not known about this individual or his circumstances, aside from the fact that he had access to lethal weapons.

The two statements are contradictory, as penalties the juvenile system has are very lax. That is why minors above a certain age can and often are "charged as adults" which really means charged in the criminal court and not juvenile/family court.
I think penalties that the juvenile court can assess are inadequate for the crime of murder, esp. when we are dealing with actual teenagers (as in the Georgia case) and not preteens like in the Louisiana case.

10 year olds are not old enough to plan ahead as far as being able to reliably do their homework and turn it in on time. It is wrong to prosecute or punish a 10 year old as an adult when they lack the biological, emotional, mental and legal capacity to behave as an adult.

And yet, how do we deal with the fact that he murdered two people? Releasing him after a few years and sealing his record is not adequate.
There is also the issue of claimed mental health issues. Maybe he can be confined in a closed mental facility.

 

[Derec]

idolize and give unchecked power through qualified immunity

These two terms are contradictory. Qualified immunity means that it is subject to qualifications, which means that it is not unchecked.
Also, qualified immunity does not apply to criminal prosecutions, but to suing individual police officers. Police officers still get charged with crimes often, and sometimes when they should not be because of political pressure.

could one day turn against them.. Oh, and let's not forget the criminals! They claim criminals won't follow gun laws, yet most firearms in criminal hands were initially obtained legally. What is wrong with these people?!

I think there should be stricter laws on guns regarding safe storage to reduce the danger of guns getting stolen.
I disagree that guns (even just certain types of firearms that the Left loves to hate) should be outright banned for private use.

I do not think fewer legal guns would make much of an impact on illegal guns though. If there is a reduction in supply of guns from initially legal purchases, criminals will just use more ghost guns.

 

[laughing dog]

idolize and give unchecked power through qualified immunity

These two terms are contradictory. Qualified immunity means that it is subject to qualifications, which means that it is not unchecked.
Also, qualified immunity does not apply to criminal prosecutions, but to suing individual police officers. Police officers still get charged with crimes often, and sometimes when they should not be because of political pressure.

BS. More often they get do not get charged with crimes that they should. Police are routinely shown

 

[Toni]

The question is: should a 10 or 11 year old be charged as an adult?

A 10 or 11 year old? Probably not.
A 14 year old for a crime such as murder? Probably yes.
A 16 or 17 year old? Most definitely.

I would argue that they should not be. I don't know that they should ever be allowed their freedom ---there is a lot not known about this individual or his circumstances, aside from the fact that he had access to lethal weapons.

The two statements are contradictory, as penalties the juvenile system has are very lax. That is why minors above a certain age can and often are "charged as adults" which really means charged in the criminal court and not juvenile/family court.
I think penalties that the juvenile court can assess are inadequate for the crime of murder, esp. when we are dealing with actual teenagers (as in the Georgia case) and not preteens like in the Louisiana case.

10 year olds are not old enough to plan ahead as far as being able to reliably do their homework and turn it in on time. It is wrong to prosecute or punish a 10 year old as an adult when they lack the biological, emotional, mental and legal capacity to behave as an adult.

And yet, how do we deal with the fact that he murdered two people? Releasing him after a few years and sealing his record is not adequate.
There is also the issue of claimed mental health issues. Maybe he can be confined in a closed mental facility.

I don't think that confinement in juvenile detention is 'lax.'

Again, I know virtually nothing about the 10 or 11 (accounts differ) year old who killed 2 people in Louisiana, except that apparently he confessed. BTW, I would not bank on that confession being accurate. 10 year olds often think they are responsible for something that they are not actually responsible for doing. There is still a great deal of magical thinking, not to mention tremendous lack of ability to think long term or to appreciate the consequences of their actions. We don't know if the shootings were intentional, if there was some underlying reason for the shooting or anything else, at least not from my google search which turned up multiple 'stories' that essentially retold the same story, minus much that could be considered fact.

Yes, there is a great deal of difference between a 10 or 11 year old and a 14 year old, just as there is a great deal of difference between a 14 year old and a 17 year old and a 17 year old and a 21 year old. There is a great deal of difference in their ability to manage emotions, process information, appreciate the consequences for their actions, understand the permanence of death, etc.

What IS altogether too clear is that the children had access to lethal weapons that no child should have access to. Full stop. But we really do not know what happened with respect to the child who apparently killed 2 adults, not even his actual age.

The only thing that is clear is that we have far too many guns in our country.

 

[Derec]

If the parents allowed him access to the gun, hopefully they will be charged similar to the Crumbley case.

I agree. Especially since they were aware of Colt's mental health issues and allegations of threats made.

UPDATE: Apalachee school shooter suspect questioned for threats in 2023

 

[ZiprHead]

The suspect: Officials said the suspect, identified as Colt Gray, 14, would be charged with murder and prosecuted as an adult.

Kids aren't prosecuted as adults. They're punished as adults.

What do you mean by that? Of course some kids are prosecuted as adults.

What's the difference between an adult prosecution and a kid prosecution?

 

[Derec]

BS. More often they get do not get charged with crimes that they should. Police are routinely shown

Like when? Feel free to post examples in the police misconduct thread as not to derail this one.

And what are "police routinely shown"?

 

[Toni]

idolize and give unchecked power through qualified immunity

These two terms are contradictory. Qualified immunity means that it is subject to qualifications, which means that it is not unchecked.
Also, qualified immunity does not apply to criminal prosecutions, but to suing individual police officers. Police officers still get charged with crimes often, and sometimes when they should not be because of political pressure.

could one day turn against them.. Oh, and let's not forget the criminals! They claim criminals won't follow gun laws, yet most firearms in criminal hands were initially obtained legally. What is wrong with these people?!

I think there should be stricter laws on guns regarding safe storage to reduce the danger of guns getting stolen.
I disagree that guns (even just certain types of firearms that the Left loves to hate) should be outright banned for private use.

I do not think fewer legal guns would make much of an impact on illegal guns though. If there is a reduction in supply of guns from initially legal purchases, criminals will just use more ghost guns.

Yes, some criminals will just get more guns that are not traceable.

But that does not address the fact that youths who shoot up schools did not get illegal guns and would be unlikely to get illegal guns to shoot up a school. 11 year olds are unlikely to be able to access illegal guns to shoot someone. It is the case that almost always such shootings by such young kids are committed using firearms found in their homes.

There is simply no legitimate use for an AK type rifle in private hands. Yes, they should be banned. YES you should have to pass an exam and demonstrate that you have the capacity and intention of securing all firearms in your possession, as well as all ammunition for such firearms before you are allowed to possess one. YES for background checks prior to gun use or ownership. YES to red flag laws keeping firearms out of the hands of those most likely to use them to commit crimes.