Yet another shooting thread

[Derec]

What's the difference between an adult prosecution and a kid prosecution?

The court they are tried in, the process followed in those courts, and the penalties that are available.

Adult Crime System vs. Juvenile Crime System

 

[Gospel]

Charging him as an adult does nothing to address the root causes of these situations, such as the widespread availability of firearms, cultural attitudes toward guns, and other societal issues. When the police made that public announcement I was like, "SO FUCKING WHAT!!" at the screen.

Charging him as an adult ensures that the shooter will not be released after 5 years, which is afaik the maximum sentence under juvenile jurisdiction in Georgia.
Prosecutions of individual offenders do not address societal issues and attitudes. That is not their purpose.

You bring up a valid point about sentencing under juvenile jurisdiction in Georgia, and I understand and agree that charging him as an adult is important in this case. However, I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding about my original comment. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What I was trying to say is that charging him as an adult, while it may ensure a longer sentence, doesn't address the underlying issues that allow these tragedies to keep happening in the first place. My point is that focusing on how a single individual is prosecuted won’t prevent people—including those with mental health issues—from getting easy access to firearms. That’s more a reflection of broader societal problems like gun availability and policies that need to be addressed.

 

[ZiprHead]

And yet, how do we deal with the fact that he murdered two people? Releasing him after a few years and sealing his record is not adequate.

What gives you the authority to say this?

 

[ZiprHead]

What's the difference between an adult prosecution and a kid prosecution?

The court they are tried in, the process followed in those courts, and the penalties that are available.

Adult Crime System vs. Juvenile Crime System

404 Page not found​

What is the differences in the process and are they significant enough to really call them differences?

 

[Derec]

Yes, some criminals will just get more guns that are not traceable.

But that does not address the fact that youths who shoot up schools did not get illegal guns and would be unlikely to get illegal guns to shoot up a school.

True. Regular kids usually acquire their weapons from home. My statement was more general about guns in the hands of criminals. School shootings are a tiny minority of all gun crime in the US.

11 year olds are unlikely to be able to access illegal guns to shoot someone. It is the case that almost always such shootings by such young kids are committed using firearms found in their homes.

Regular 11 year olds yes. But shooting by kids that young are rare anyway. And unfortunately, kids as young as that being roped into gangs (where they have almost unfettered access to guns) is not unheard of.
For example, a pair of preteens robbed a woman at gunpoint on Atlanta's Beltline.

Kids as young as 11 years old accused of robbing woman on Atlanta Beltline

And then there is 11 year old gang enforcer who was killed by some teens from his own gang so he would not spill the beans to the police.

11-year-old ‘Yummy’ Sandifer was on the run for killing a teenage girl. Then he was killed by his own gang in a Chicago story that shocked the nation 25 years ago.

There is simply no legitimate use for an AK type rifle in private hands. Yes, they should be banned.

Why? The civilian AK47 and AR15 are just semiauto rifles. No different than say a Ruger Mini 14.
And rifles of all types are responsible for a very small share of all homicides. "Hands, fists and feet" are responsible for more killings than rifles. Not to mention that if the 14 year old of Georgia had access to a Glock 17 and not an AR15 he could have committed the shooting with that as well. Just like the 11 year old from Georgia did with a couple of handguns.

YES you should have to pass an exam and demonstrate that you have the capacity and intention of securing all firearms in your possession, as well as all ammunition for such firearms before you are allowed to possess one. YES for background checks prior to gun use or ownership. YES to red flag laws keeping firearms out of the hands of those most likely to use them to commit crimes.

I would agree with that. But not to a ban of certain firearms just because of how some people feel about them.

 

[Derec]

404 Page not found​

I fixed the broken link.

What is the differences in the process and are they significant enough to really call them differences?

Yes they are. Read the link.

 

[Derec]

I don't think that confinement in juvenile detention is 'lax.'

Why not?

Again, I know virtually nothing about the 10 or 11 (accounts differ) year old who killed 2 people in Louisiana, except that apparently he confessed.

True. Not much is released.

I would not bank on that confession being accurate. 10 year olds often think they are responsible for something that they are not actually responsible for doing.

I don't think this is likely here. Apparently, the confession was not immediate, as police remarked that the story they were initially told did not make sense. Also presumably the guns were secured and examined for fingerprints/touch DNA and a GSR test would have been performed on the kid.

We don't know if the shootings were intentional,

There were reportedly 8 shots fired, so there isn't much chance the guns were discharged accidentally.

Yes, there is a great deal of difference between a 10 or 11 year old and a 14 year old, just as there is a great deal of difference between a 14 year old and a 17 year old and a 17 year old and a 21 year old.

Indeed. You often do not appreciate that fact when you call 17 year olds "children" to minimize their responsibility.

The only thing that is clear is that we have far too many guns in our country.

There is not much chance of banning guns anytime soon though, even if we wanted to.

 

[Derec]

Brown said that in January, she helped her nephew enroll at Haymon-Morris Middle School in Barrow County so he could finish eighth grade following a period of absenteeism. He had just started ninth grade at Apalachee High this school year, she said.

Note that Haymon-Morris is right next to Apalachee. They pretty much share a big campus with an elementary school as well.

 

[Derec]

Georgia does not have any laws requiring firearms to be securely locked when stored in private homes.

Edit: To my knowledge they don't even have laws in place to encourage parents to secure them from child access.

I'm going to say two scary words. Federal mandate.

Something like that would make a lot more sense than the go-to solution of congressional Democrats - a stupid ban on so-called "assault weapons".

 

[Derec]

I just read in the AJC that the boy’s mother had a criminal history going back for 17 years and was given a 5 year prison sentence. Damn Messed up family.

Yeah. Apparently she became addicted to drugs which had knock-on effects. She has a master's degree and had a good career before that. Sad all around.

 

[Derec]

The young Black males often portrayed on social media for their involvement in gun culture typically gain access to firearms that were initially legally owned. There is a obvious disconnect between those who criticize violence in Black communities and the reality of the role loose gun laws play in it.

I mean there is a big difference between somebody who buys their gun legally but is a victim of theft, somebody who steals a gun and somebody who uses a stolen gun to commit further crimes such as robberies or drive-bys. Even if the first person is negligent in securing their firearm, the primary fault is still with the thieves and shooters.

 

[Derec]

It looks to me like the shooter probably shouldn't be charged as an adult but the parents should be.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The suspect: Officials said the suspect, identified as Colt Gray, 14, would be charged with murder and prosecuted as an adult.

Kids aren't prosecuted as adults. They're punished as adults.

What do you mean by that? Of course some kids are prosecuted as adults.

What's the difference between an adult prosecution and a kid prosecution?

Goats have more rights in court.

 

[Tigers!]

Georgia does not have any laws requiring firearms to be securely locked when stored in private homes.

Stupid

Edit: To my knowledge they don't even have laws in place to encourage parents to secure them from child access.

Even stupider.

Can parents really be that stupid?

 

[Gospel]

The young Black males often portrayed on social media for their involvement in gun culture typically gain access to firearms that were initially legally owned. There is a obvious disconnect between those who criticize violence in Black communities and the reality of the role loose gun laws play in it.

I mean there is a big difference between somebody who buys their gun legally but is a victim of theft, somebody who steals a gun and somebody who uses a stolen gun to commit further crimes such as robberies or drive-bys. Even if the first person is negligent in securing their firearm, the primary fault is still with the thieves and shooters.

I’ll just avoid pointing out that if there were no guns around to steal in the first place...

It’s not just about assigning blame after a gun-related crime occurs; it's equally important to address the causes that allow these crimes to happen. One issue is the sheer number of firearms that are accessible for theft. A reasonable first step would be to implement federal laws requiring secure gun storage and mandate that all private gun sales go through the FBI, with background checks for a fee. That way, if you report your gun stolen and the police find out it wasn’t properly secured, you're toast. And if you don’t report it stolen and it turns up later, well, you're even darker toast—like really burnt toast. With consequences like that, people would definitely start taking gun security more seriously. Mandating background checks for private sales would also eliminate illegal straw purchases (yes even the ones that don't involve money). The original buyer would be held accountable if they sold (or gave) the gun to someone who would fail a background check, since it’s clear they didn’t follow the proper process they'd still be on the hook for that gun.

Briefly touching on the second step, we should require mental health screenings as a mandatory part of the background check process.

And oh boy, I can already sense someone’s brain overheating, ready to argue that my idea won’t eliminate gun crimes. I never claimed it would—I'm just aiming to reduce them.

 

[starwater]

The father has been arrested and charged with manslaughter and other charges.

He knowingly allowed this kid to have the weapon.

 

[Derec]

The father has been arrested and charged with manslaughter and other charges.

He knowingly allowed this kid to have the weapon.

Correct decision. They were both interviewed by law enforcement last year concerning some threats on Discord. And the kid has mental health issues besides. Access to guns is like a spark in a (stoichiometric) natural gas leak in this case.

 

[Elixir]

The father has been arrested and charged with manslaughter and other charges.

He knowingly allowed this kid to have the weapon.

That was fast.

It’s not just about assigning blame after a gun-related crime occurs; it's equally important to address the causes that allow these crimes to happen.

That. Guns are the most common thing, no, the ONLY thing I can think of that can enable a child to wield credible threat of death against an adult or multiple adults simultaneously. It's epic societal stupid to have let this current situation evolve.

 

[southernhybrid]

I was just going to post a link regarding the father's arrest, to clarify the charges etc. I imagine this is in other sources of news, but Axios Atlanta emails me sometimes.

https://www.axios.com/2024/09/05/ge...&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_atlanta

The father of the 14-year-old Apalachee High School student arrested in connection with a massacre that killed four people and injured nine others has been arrested, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced Thursday.

The big picture: Colin Gray, 54, has been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children, per a GBI post to X.

• The charges against Colin Gray, who was arrested Wednesday and remains in custody, stem from him "knowingly allowing" his son Colt Gray to possess a weapon, Chris Hosey, the GBI director, said at a news conference Thursday evening.
• The charges are "directly connected with the actions of his son and allowing him to possess a weapon," Hosey said.

 

[TSwizzle]

The shooter’s father has been arrested. Seems he bought the kid the gun as a Christmas present. Unbelievable level of stupidity.