Yet another shooting thread

[Elixir]

I'm talking about the approach

Ok. What’s a “better” approach?
I’d like to ban most guns outright but that ain’t gonna happen.
Republicans would like to ban almost all abortions outright. Not gonna happen either.
Is your preferred approach going to be more effective than chipping away?

Note that I was comparing what the two sides are doing.

Recognize that they see every attempt to chip away at guns the same as we see them trying to chip away at abortion.

Oh I see that. But there is a difference that the pro gun/anti reproductive freedom segment won’t acknowledge:

GUN BANS SAVE LIVES
ABORTION BANS KILL PEOPLE

See the difference? I knew you would.
The fact that “both sides” are seeking bans makes them the same in the eyes of … some people.

 

[marc]

Another difference is that most pro-gun regulation people are not trying to get all guns banned. They are trying to get some reasonable regulations in place for safety's sake. The gun lobby tries to make any reasonable regulation sound like a total ban, or leading to that, so people (paid of politicians) will fight back, so that nothing impedes gun sales. But I think this somewhat backfires. The more shootings we have, and the more the gun nuts fight back against any safety measure, the more appealing a total gun ban starts to sound. Like a parent with a kid that won't stop acting up, if they can't play nice with their toys the parent will just have to take the toys away.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another difference is that most pro-gun regulation people are not trying to get all guns banned. They are trying to get some reasonable regulations in place for safety's sake. The gun lobby tries to make any reasonable regulation sound like a total ban, or leading to that, so people (paid of politicians) will fight back, so that nothing impedes gun sales. But I think this somewhat backfires. The more shootings we have, and the more the gun nuts fight back against any safety measure, the more appealing a total gun ban starts to sound. Like a parent with a kid that won't stop acting up, if they can't play nice with their toys the parent will just have to take the toys away.

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

 

[marc]

Another difference is that most pro-gun regulation people are not trying to get all guns banned. They are trying to get some reasonable regulations in place for safety's sake. The gun lobby tries to make any reasonable regulation sound like a total ban, or leading to that, so people (paid of politicians) will fight back, so that nothing impedes gun sales. But I think this somewhat backfires. The more shootings we have, and the more the gun nuts fight back against any safety measure, the more appealing a total gun ban starts to sound. Like a parent with a kid that won't stop acting up, if they can't play nice with their toys the parent will just have to take the toys away.

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

Except the republicans are lying about reasonable regulations. Hardly anyone is interested in a complete gun ban, politicians in favor of it probably could be counted on one hand, and i challenge you to prove otherwise.

 

[Shadowy Man]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

 

[Elixir]

Darn these ‘gun free zones’! Don’t they know the only way to stop a shooter is with a good guy with a gun?

What safety can we expect if they don’t let us carry guns in a...*checks article*.. gun store!


The clerk obviously infringed on the guy’s 2nd amendment rights by asking him to not walk around the store with an unholstered loaded weapon.

"A person entered a gun store and shooting range in a New Orleans suburb and fatally shot two people Saturday, prompting customers and staff to open fire on the shooter"

IME, shooting ranges just are not the same without live ammo and loaded weapons. That's just me, though.

Sounds like a suicide-by-customer.

The reality is that almost all mass shootings are in "gun free" zones. This, however, looks to me like a suicide. Obviously the motivations of a suicide are different than a mass shooter, hence the different location.

So suicide zones are the safest, unless you’re committing suicide in which case you don’t care. Are there specific suicide zones within gun shops, or do you have to stake them out upon arrival?

 

[Shadowy Man]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

Which specific policies of “the left” that have become law do you think are unreasonable?

Because there are some real doozies by the Republicans.

You want to “both sides” this but I’m not convinced that the comparison is even close to equal.

I understand the “why”, as you put it, but I don’t find irrationality compelling.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

Which specific policies of “the left” that have become law do you think are unreasonable?

Because there are some real doozies by the Republicans.

You want to “both sides” this but I’m not convinced that the comparison is even close to equal.

I understand the “why”, as you put it, but I don’t find irrationality compelling.

The right has been a lot more effective at actually doing it.

 

[marc]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

Which specific policies of “the left” that have become law do you think are unreasonable?

Because there are some real doozies by the Republicans.

You want to “both sides” this but I’m not convinced that the comparison is even close to equal.

I understand the “why”, as you put it, but I don’t find irrationality compelling.

The right has been a lot more effective at actually doing it.

Complete dodging the request to back up your claims with evidence, as expected

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

Which specific policies of “the left” that have become law do you think are unreasonable?

Because there are some real doozies by the Republicans.

You want to “both sides” this but I’m not convinced that the comparison is even close to equal.

I understand the “why”, as you put it, but I don’t find irrationality compelling.

The right has been a lot more effective at actually doing it.

Complete dodging the request to back up your claims with evidence, as expected

These days I have a problem with affirmative action. It had it's place but it did what it could long ago, we are putting an awful lot of effort into perpetuating the problem rather than addressing it.

I also have a problem with the level of effort that is sometimes put into "educating" those without the ability to learn much.

 

[Gospel]

2 men dead, 7 injured after shooting in downtown Orlando

Police said a 17-year-old suspect was arrested

www.wesh.com

ORLANDO, Fla. —
Two men are dead and at least seven people are injured after an overnight shooting in downtown Orlando, the city's police department said.

Police responded to a shooting call near East Central Boulevard and North Orange Avenue just at 1:07 a.m. Friday. Minutes later, police said they received another call about shots fired south of Washington Street on North Orange Avenue.


Orlando Police Chief Eric Smith said eight people were shot. Two of the victims died, six were taken to the hospital. Victims' ages are between 19 and 39, police said.

Smith said the suspect in the case was taken into custody. The suspect is 17 years old and has a previous arrest record, according to police.

 

[Gospel]

I have to commend those officers. When shots rang out and everyone else scattered, they moved straight into the scene without hesitation.

 

[Gospel]

From what I can tell, this shooting appears to be random. It doesn’t seem to be gang-related, a dispute, a robbery, or anything that some might assume when a large group of Black people is present.

 

[Toni]

And compare that to what the Republicans have been after for ages about abortion: just some reasonable regulations.

many of their proposed regulations are not reasonable. What you say doesn’t comport with reality.

And they say the same thing (generally rightly so) about left attacks on guns.

I'm trying to point out why they are reacting the way they are--it's exactly the same playbook and they know what the goal of their playbook was.

Which specific policies of “the left” that have become law do you think are unreasonable?

Because there are some real doozies by the Republicans.

You want to “both sides” this but I’m not convinced that the comparison is even close to equal.

I understand the “why”, as you put it, but I don’t find irrationality compelling.

The right has been a lot more effective at actually doing it.

Complete dodging the request to back up your claims with evidence, as expected

These days I have a problem with affirmative action. It had it's place but it did what it could long ago, we are putting an awful lot of effort into perpetuating the problem rather than addressing it.

I also have a problem with the level of effort that is sometimes put into "educating" those without the ability to learn much.

You know, I have a problem with affirmative action as well. I just did not think of it that way before.

What do I mean? Well, let’s face it. The only reason white mostly heterosexual males run everything is because the rules have been stacked in their favor for centuries. They could not compete fairly against women or persons of color so special schools and colleges and universities were set up for their exclusive use. These became the training grounds for men of means, if power and influence. And of course, they used their wealth, their power, their influence to help others just like them: They made certain that only they could make laws —favoring them. They terrorized women with threats of rape, murder, murder of their children and other family members if they did not comply. They denied women proper education, proper medical care, the right to inherit, the right to own property, the right to their own bodies. They did the same to persons of color, or to those who did not worship the same way or who had a different accent.

Why?

Because white men cannot compete if the odds are not stacked in their favor. They cannot stand against real competition unless they make all the rules and judgements in their favor.

Let’s abolish Affirmative Action For White Men!

 

[Derec]

Because white men cannot compete if the odds are not stacked in their favor. They cannot stand against real competition unless they make all the rules and judgements in their favor.

That is an incredibly sexist and racist statement!
You are basically saying that white men are inferior to others. Furthermore, you support discrimination against white men and are pretending that there is no such discrimination. Much has been said about MAGA having alternative facts, but you are the proof that similar denialism exists on the Left as well.

I want people to be treated as individuals. No stacking odds in anybody's favor.

 

[robnisch]

I think of professional sports may be an example of what can happen when the market is opened up to all, not just whites.
What would baseball have looked like in the 20's and 30's if it was open to all?

Or is this racist somehow?

 

[Toni]

Because white men cannot compete if the odds are not stacked in their favor. They cannot stand against real competition unless they make all the rules and judgements in their favor.

That is an incredibly sexist and racist statement!
You are basically saying that white men are inferior to others. Furthermore, you support discrimination against white men and are pretending that there is no such discrimination. Much has been said about MAGA having alternative facts, but you are the proof that similar denialism exists on the Left as well.

I want people to be treated as individuals. No stacking odds in anybody's favor.

So, you believe that it came to be that white men are in charge …because they are just naturally superior? Smarter, stronger, harder working? More intelligent?

More blessed by God?

I think centuries of privilege have made people complacent. In this particular case: white males. Also insecure and less sharp. Look at how any non-white non-male person who gets any kind position that a white make wants is immediately decried as Affirmative Action hire—or to be more modern: DEA hire.


Trump is the result of thousands of years of affirmative action for white men.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because white men cannot compete if the odds are not stacked in their favor. They cannot stand against real competition unless they make all the rules and judgements in their favor.

That is an incredibly sexist and racist statement!

Toni's statement is a bit overly broad, but it is rather accurate when taken in appropriate context. It was the basis of Jim Crow. Poor white yeomen farmers in the south didn't want to compete with blacks.

You are basically saying that white men are inferior to others.

Go watch one of the Bernstein's Orchestra for children program back in the 50s/60s. Notice how near exclusively white and male the orchestra is.

Look at any orchestra today. Notice the much larger balance. White people were in orchestra because they didn't need to compete with others. This isn't judgmental, it is simply fact.

America has a problem with not-American. Look at Indycar and NASCAR. I'll give you one guess why the technologically inferior NASCAR Is more popular today. Heck, I remember Jeff Gordon being hated because he was from the West Coast.

 

[Gospel]

I think of professional sports may be an example of what can happen when the market is opened up to all, not just whites.
What would baseball have looked like in the 20's and 30's if it was open to all?

Or is this racist somehow?

The Yankees and Red Sox wouldn’t be fighting over Babe Ruth that's for sure. The Red Sox could have picked up Oscar Charleston &/or Josh Gibson and been just fine.